| cacatua 17.04.2010 08:46 |
Those of you from the UK, who might be persuaded to support Brian's Save Me campaign, please visit the web site: link Please consider signing up if you haven't already. He needs your help. Edit: There I fixed the link, lest anyone else be led astray from the top of the page. |
| cacatua 18.04.2010 13:54 |
I'm bumping this back up. It is not as though I expected replies, but I do hope that some of you from the UK might think it over and decide to join Brian's cause if you haven't already. I know this is a Queen forum and not a Brian forum, but he is the visible face of Queen these days, as Roger doesn't have a website, Deacon is in seclusion and poor Freddie gone. So I would hope that there might be at least a few who will feel some loyalty on the basis of all of the enjoyment they have had from Queen over the years if not for the animals themselves, for it is now time to circle the wagons for his Save Me campaign as time is relatively short. |
| dragon-fly 18.04.2010 15:00 |
It sucks. I'd join- but I'm not British. What an irony! |
| Amazon 18.04.2010 15:32 |
dragon-fly wrote: "It sucks. I'd join- but I'm not British. What an irony!" I'm with you here. It's really disgusting, and I also would join if I was British. |
| cacatua 18.04.2010 17:08 |
It seems that we all have the same problem! :o( |
| Makka 19.04.2010 01:41 |
link |
| cacatua 19.04.2010 09:13 |
Makka wrote: link Hmmmmmmm................ |
| GratefulFan 19.04.2010 11:16 |
cacatua wrote: I'm bumping this back up. It is not as though I expected replies, but I do hope that some of you from the UK might think it over and decide to join Brian's cause if you haven't already. I know this is a Queen forum and not a Brian forum, but he is the visible face of Queen these days, as Roger doesn't have a website, Deacon is in seclusion and poor Freddie gone. So I would hope that there might be at least a few who will feel some loyalty on the basis of all of the enjoyment they have had from Queen over the years if not for the animals themselves, for it is now time to circle the wagons for his Save Me campaign as time is relatively short.This was a wonderful sentiment and I smiled at your bump yesterday. :) Way to be persistent for Brian and the cause. To those that are concerned about not being from the UK I don't think that's an issue. Brian explicitly noted that he was delighted with the international support. I'm sure you'd be welcome, and many people on the Facebook page noted they were from somewhere else. Though it did occur to me that there are potential ethical problems with participating from outside the UK since the group does seek to influence votes and political positions. I signed up very early as a fan for just the reasons you outlined and I was happy to do it. That lasted less than 2 days before I dropped the page. I tried, for Brian, but I just can't handle the expressed mindset even though my personal views on hunting as far as choices I would make in my own life are just like theirs. They are a strange, very offputting mix of genuine passion, arrogance and credulity. Brian's letter to that councillor on his website was the last straw. None of it is anything I want to be associated with and I can't imagine I'm particularly special. A potential squandering of probably the only unambiguously good thing about fame. |
| pittrek 19.04.2010 11:33 |
Why are you promoting some shitty search engine ? If it's some kind of joke, it's not funny. |
| GratefulFan 19.04.2010 11:47 |
It seems like the original url posted accidentally dropped the .uk. It should be: link |
| Holly2003 19.04.2010 12:29 |
Has Brian gone bonkers? I do believe he has just threatened an elected offical with violence... link |
| cacatua 19.04.2010 13:05 |
Holly2003 wrote: Has Brian gone bonkers? I do believe he has just threatened an elected offical with violence... link Wow! That has just gone up since I checked in there mid morning! It was sort of strange as there was a mention of something having been removed. The letter just below this Parsons blow-out was supportive, and when he answered he said he was making enemies and being vilified by some. I think Brian must have heard those remarks, being referred to as "the hairy man" or "a millionaire rock star" about one time too many, and lost it! The letter from Councillor Parsons was pretty nasty and provocative itself. It sounds like Brian is getting really stressed out. |
| cacatua 19.04.2010 13:08 |
pittrek wrote: Why are you promoting some shitty search engine ? If it's some kind of joke, it's not funny. Sorry about that one! I'm surprised it wasn't pointed out sooner. |
| Amazon 19.04.2010 13:17 |
Holly2003 wrote: " Has Brian gone bonkers? I do believe he has just threatened an elected offical with violence..." It's not a particularly nice letter- it's bullying for one thing (the use of little man isn't very nice)- however I don't believe that he was threatening the official, at least not with violence. He was simply suggesting that he hopes that the people fire him, so to speak. As I said, I don't really like the letter, however I don't like the reference to Brian's being a 'cosseted London rock star.' It annoys me as it's basically saying that since May is a wealthy rock star, he has no right to an opinion. I think that's nonsence. Agree with him or not, I think that May has as much right to an opinion as anybody else, and on this issue, he does seem to have done his research. |
| GratefulFan 19.04.2010 13:24 |
I'm thinking you maybe didn't read all the way to the bottom past the picture... |
| cacatua 19.04.2010 13:41 |
I've been emailing Brian a lot about this campaign. I don't know if he ever reads any of it. He only replied once to thank me for the feedback. The statement he made about having Parson's "guts for garters" - I laughed, but it was over-the-top. Brian can't let them suck him into the negative side like this or he will destroy himself. It is natural that they fight back because he is threatening their way of life and of thinking about things in what for them is the natural order. I do care a lot about these things and am not just kissing up to Brian. I began reading his Soapbox because of Queen, but was pleasantly surprised that he was speaking out in defence of animals. I have a spot where I pontificate about such things too: link |
| GratefulFan 19.04.2010 13:52 |
cacatua wrote: The letter just below this Parsons blow-out was supportive, and when he answered he said he was making enemies and being vilified by some. I think Brian must have heard those remarks, being referred to as "the hairy man" or "a millionaire rock star" about one time too many, and lost it! The letter from Councillor Parsons was pretty nasty and provocative itself. It sounds like Brian is getting really stressed out.I don't buy that. The 'millionaire rock star' thing is something he needs to be prepared for in this instance as it's not only clear that it will be employed, but clear that perhaps it should be employed. It's not irrelevant, and since he can put that fact into a larger context I think he should do so as civilly as possible and as many times as necessary. Instead he loses his mind, because somebody 'attacked' him. When he attacks people in the very same way constantly on his soapbox! He set the tone of the discourse himself a hundred times over. I know that if I was seeking to not just make decisions for myself but to impose my will on others I would feel a great deal of responsibility to support my position with something other than the fact that I'm right and everybody else is a worthless idiot. Beneath the dismissive language the councillor is actually making a point of sorts. Brian is just responding like a stressed out narcissist. Acting like he's engaged in guerilla warfare, when in fact there is already a law on the books that may be subjected to a free vote (which it's never been as I understand) under a set of circumstances that may or may not come to pass at some unknown time in the future. |
| pittrek 19.04.2010 13:59 |
Thanks for the correct link :-) Well, this seems like a nice idea |
| cacatua 19.04.2010 14:10 |
GratefulFan wrote: cacatua wrote: The letter just below this Parsons blow-out was supportive, and when he answered he said he was making enemies and being vilified by some. I think Brian must have heard those remarks, being referred to as "the hairy man" or "a millionaire rock star" about one time too many, and lost it! The letter from Councillor Parsons was pretty nasty and provocative itself. It sounds like Brian is getting really stressed out. I don't buy that. The 'millionaire rock star' thing is something he needs to be prepared for in this instance as it's not only clear that it will be employed, but clear that perhaps it should be employed. It's not irrelevant, and since he can put that fact into a larger context I think he should do so as civilly as possible and as many times as necessary. Instead he loses his mind, because somebody 'attacked' him. When he attacks people in the very same way constantly on his soapbox! He set the tone of the discourse himself a hundred times over. I know that if I was seeking to not just make decisions for myself but to impose my will on others I would feel a great deal of responsibility to support my position with something other than the fact that I'm right and everybody else is a worthless idiot. Beneath the dismissive language the councillor is actually making a point of sorts. Brian is just responding like a stressed out narcissist. Acting like he's engaged in guerilla warfare, when in fact there is already a law on the books that may be subjected to a free vote (which it's never been as I understand) under a set of circumstances that may or may not come to pass at some unknown time in the future. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ He didn't do himself any favors to add the "guts for garters" part at the end of the letter, and oddly enough, just an hour ago on Facebook, he told the troops to "keep it clean" in their commentary, "Pro-unters are trying to report us....let's not give them any ammo :)" Yes, he should have expected to be a target for some unkind remarks himself. It just sounds like he lost it. Not good to have it in bold print though - very hard to unring that bell. But now that the pop-off valve has spouted steam, perhaps things will level out. |
| Pim Derks 19.04.2010 14:54 |
link New version of Save Me with Kerry Ellis (probably). |
| Amazon 19.04.2010 14:59 |
GratefulFan wrote: I"'m thinking you maybe didn't read all the way to the bottom past the picture..." Yes, I just read it now. Before I didn't go past the picture. Yeh, saying that 'you'd better be as brave as your words, because if you ever come within sniffing distance of me I'll have your guts for garters, you pathetic, arrogant, jumped-up, snivelling little dweeb' is not a good look at all. I do understand why Brian would be angry (I think that the reference to Brian being a a 'cosseted London rock star' and the comment that he has 'not chafed his hands on anything other than a guitar neck' are pathetic and do justify an emotional response) but he just went completely OTT. The problem is that this is a complicated issue, in which there are no good or bad guys, yet Brian's attempt to turn this into a matter of good versus evil just makes him come across as a self-rigteous prick. I have tremendous respect for Brian and his concern for animal rights (particularly in regards to fox hunting), but he needs to acknowledge that farmers and the like who disagree with him, do not do so because they revel in hurting animals. Rather they have legitimate concerns; Brian doesn't have to agree with these concerns, but he should at least acknowledge them. If he did, and if he used reason and continued to rely upon research, and wasn't baited by silly 'millionaire rock star' comments, he wouldn't be so off-puting and I think he would have more success in winning people over to the cause. |
| GratefulFan 19.04.2010 15:03 |
Christ. It does have Kerry Ellis. I listened to this yesterday until the orchestra kicked in, and then I wandered off. Well, lots of people who aren't me will love it I suppose. Does this qualify as the anthem you wanted him to write cacatua? |
| cacatua 19.04.2010 15:24 |
GratefulFan wrote: Christ. It does have Kerry Ellis. I listened to this yesterday until the orchestra kicked in, and then I wandered off. Well, lots of people who aren't me will love it I suppose. Does this qualify as the anthem you wanted him to write cacatua? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Apparently it is as close as I will get. I listened to the whole thing and assumed too it was Kerry Ellis. He did name the campaign after it so I was expecting some version of the song. |
| cacatua 19.04.2010 15:35 |
Amazon wrote: GratefulFan wrote: I"'m thinking you maybe didn't read all the way to the bottom past the picture..." Yes, I just read it now. Before I didn't go past the picture. Yeh, saying that 'you'd better be as brave as your words, because if you ever come within sniffing distance of me I'll have your guts for garters, you pathetic, arrogant, jumped-up, snivelling little dweeb' is not a good look at all. I do understand why Brian would be angry (I think that the reference to Brian being a a 'cosseted London rock star' and the comment that he has 'not chafed his hands on anything other than a guitar neck' are pathetic and do justify an emotional response) but he just went completely OTT. The problem is that this is a complicated issue, in which there are no good or bad guys, yet Brian's attempt to turn this into a matter of good versus evil just makes him come across as a self-rigteous prick. I have tremendous respect for Brian and his concern for animal rights (particularly in regards to fox hunting), but he needs to acknowledge that farmers and the like who disagree with him, do not do so because they revel in hurting animals. Rather they have legitimate concerns; Brian doesn't have to agree with these concerns, but he should at least acknowledge them. If he did, and if he used reason and continued to rely upon research, and wasn't baited by silly 'millionaire rock star' comments, he wouldn't be so off-puting and I think he would have more success in winning people over to the cause. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I think he tried to keep it civil and based on reputable research, but was just dismissed as being an outsider and derided as a rock star too many times. There are always two sides to these things, but I do think the "other side" kicked some sand in his face while he was trying to play nice. Now he has lost that high ground by going after his detractor. I guess this was his Death On Two Legs moment. |
| Bulsarian 19.04.2010 17:44 |
Although i think in my opinion that he is running in a never-ending marathon, at least he has convictions and beliefs and at least he fights for what he believes, which is more than most celebrities can say. Lastly, i commend him on his work as a normal citizen, BUT he literally ruined his case with the opening of that letter imo, he shouldn't have opened with the recognization of him being a member of Queen or a rock star, very egotistical and unprofessional imo. |
| Amazon 19.04.2010 18:27 |
Bulsarian wrote: Although i think in my opinion that he is running in a never-ending marathon, at least he has convictions and beliefs and at least he fights for what he believes, which is more than most celebrities can say. Lastly, i commend him on his work as a normal citizen, BUT he literally ruined his case with the opening of that letter imo, he shouldn't have opened with the recognization of him being a member of Queen or a rock star, very egotistical and unprofessional imo. The reason he mentioned that was because the councellor mentioned it. It was the councellor who first brought it up (attacking Brian for being a 'cosseted London rock star' and stating that Brian hadn't 'chafed his hands on anything other than a guitar neck'), so I don't think it was unreasonable that Brian brought it up. He could, however, have been less agressive; certainly the last line was OTT. |
| beautifulsoup 19.04.2010 18:30 |
Amazon wrote: Yes, I just read it now. Before I didn't go past the picture. Yeh, saying that 'you'd better be as brave as your words, because if you ever come within sniffing distance of me I'll have your guts for garters, you pathetic, arrogant, jumped-up, snivelling little dweeb' is not a good look at all. I do understand why Brian would be angry (I think that the reference to Brian being a a 'cosseted London rock star' and the comment that he has 'not chafed his hands on anything other than a guitar neck' are pathetic and do justify an emotional response) but he just went completely OTT. The problem is that this is a complicated issue, in which there are no good or bad guys, yet Brian's attempt to turn this into a matter of good versus evil just makes him come across as a self-rigteous prick. I have tremendous respect for Brian and his concern for animal rights (particularly in regards to fox hunting), but he needs to acknowledge that farmers and the like who disagree with him, do not do so because they revel in hurting animals. Rather they have legitimate concerns; Brian doesn't have to agree with these concerns, but he should at least acknowledge them. If he did, and if he used reason and continued to rely upon research, and wasn't baited by silly 'millionaire rock star' comments, he wouldn't be so off-puting and I think he would have more success in winning people over to the cause. *************************** Yep. |
| GratefulFan 19.04.2010 23:41 |
cacatua wrote: I think he tried to keep it civil and based on reputable research, but was just dismissed as being an outsider and derided as a rock star too many times. There are always two sides to these things, but I do think the "other side" kicked some sand in his face while he was trying to play nice. Now he has lost that high ground by going after his detractor. I guess this was his Death On Two Legs moment.I think you're being too generous. I've rarely seen him be even remotely civil on this topic on the Soapbox. In fact he's blindingly obnoxious about 90% of the time. And the vocal members of his new Facebook crew are at about 85%. When he started doing press for the Badger Trust challenge and Save Me I thought he was finally hitting a really great tone, but it didn't last. Frankly, you better be ready to effectively and graciously defend being an outsider and a wealthy rock star when you're, um, an outsider and a wealthy rock star. If I were waging his campaign the first step I'd take is right into the shoes of the people upon whom I was trying to foist my world view. I'd start with understanding that it might feel pretty galling from their vantage point and go on from there. Laser beam compassion for animals is no good to any living thing if the cost is near total tone deafness to your effect on a great number of actual people. It's just wasteful because there is no one on the planet that can gently persuade any better than him when he turns it on. There are many examples, but I always think of the commentary for the 'It's a Hard Life' video. That video is the most absurb spectacle ever printed to film, but by the end of his words you feel warm and inspired and connected to Fred and connected to the band. Why can't he just do that? People would follow him anywhere. |
| cacatua 20.04.2010 09:03 |
GratefulFan wrote: cacatua wrote: I think he tried to keep it civil and based on reputable research, but was just dismissed as being an outsider and derided as a rock star too many times. There are always two sides to these things, but I do think the "other side" kicked some sand in his face while he was trying to play nice. Now he has lost that high ground by going after his detractor. I guess this was his Death On Two Legs moment. I think you're being too generous. I've rarely seen him be even remotely civil on this topic on the Soapbox. In fact he's blindingly obnoxious about 90% of the time. And the vocal members of his new Facebook crew are at about 85%. When he started doing press for the Badger Trust challenge and Save Me I thought he was finally hitting a really great tone, but it didn't last. Frankly, you better be ready to effectively and graciously defend being an outsider and a wealthy rock star when you're, um, an outsider and a wealthy rock star. If I were waging his campaign the first step I'd take is right into the shoes of the people upon whom I was trying to foist my world view. I'd start with understanding that it might feel pretty galling from their vantage point and go on from there. Laser beam compassion for animals is no good to any living thing if the cost is near total tone deafness to your effect on a great number of actual people. It's just wasteful because there is no one on the planet that can gently persuade any better than him when he turns it on. There are many examples, but I always think of the commentary for the 'It's a Hard Life' video. That video is the most absurb spectacle ever printed to film, but by the end of his words you feel warm and inspired and connected to Fred and connected to the band. Why can't he just do that? People would follow him anywhere. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I don't disagree with anything you have said, because it is all true. BUT I am less judgemental about it because I have an artistic nature too, and that tends to make you inclined to have emotions stronger than more normal people, which creates the drive to do works of art. But it makes one prone to getting stressed out more easily and having a meltdown. If the stressing factors aren't relieved, then one's body starts to pour chemicals like adrenaline into the system, and if a tipping point is reached then you have clinical depression. Been there, done that, and I have to be careful. I know that Brian has battled deprssion too. I am tired of people attaching some sort of stigma to it, as in the end it is a medical condition, and it is very hard to put on a "happy face" to get out of it when your system is still dumping chemicals toxic to the nervous system into it so that you are swimming against that torrent of negativity. People commit suicide just to make it stop. Medication helps but won't necessarily make everything "peachy." I roared when I first saw Brian's reply to this guy! So did my husband. But unfortunately Brian published it, and these things have a way of coming back to bite you in the ass. I speak of topics concerning the natural world on my blog but I try to keep away from attacking possible readers and just share what I feel about it. However, after Brian launched his Save Me campaign I got to wondering about a horrible practice that they were "bringing back'' some years ago in the USA called "live pigeon shoots." I found that it is still done in Pennsylvania, and there is a thoroughly brutal video of one of these. Apparently it is a "family" event, and the kids are employed to go stomp on the many wounded birds, many of which were raised inside for this purpose and had never flown, so that when they were sprung from the "traps" they just stood there, bewildered, and these "contestants" shot them where they stood. After a round the kids dash out and stomp on the flopping birds, or beat them to death on something, or yank their heads off and then carry them back to throw them into a barrel. In spite of all that, some of them are still alive when thrown into that barrel and slowly die of their wounds or suffocate. If you think I am exaggerating, there is a link to this video at my blog (and a link to the blog in a previous post) I am getting upset just writing about this. When I watched the video it nearly made me throw up, and I don't usually react that way. It is just that heinous to me because I am a great bird lover, and my cockatoo was sitting in my lap as I watched. I don't think I could stay anything nearly civil if I were to run across anyone who participated in this "sport." Now I don't know what sort of horrible videos Brian may have seen, or what sort of situations he may have witnessed on behalf of his rescued babies, but he feels very passionately about the subject, and it will likely take a lot less provocation to get him worked up to the point of lashing out on this topic than most others, which won't necessarily be helpful. Add other daily stressors and lack of sleep, perhaps too much caffiene, and it is a recipe for a meltdown. That is why I am not so unforgiving as yourself and some others about Brian's behavior. Hopefully he has gotten a grip after venting. As they say, "You catch more flies with sugar than vinegar." Yes, I am loyal, and call me a "Stepford" if you wish. If that is the worst thing I ever get called then I can live with it. |
| cacatua 20.04.2010 09:49 |
Brian has a new Save Me statement at the soapbox. It is much more positive than yesterday, and now that he has gotten a tates of Facebook, he has decided he likes it and will settle in as himself. |
| cacatua 21.04.2010 11:00 |
I just saw this. Brian comments. Most comments after the article support Brian. link |
| GratefulFan 21.04.2010 11:54 |
cacatua wrote: I just saw this. Brian comments. Most comments after the article support Brian.Niether missive adds anything useful to the matter at hand and neither is worthy of attention. In this instance both men generally come off like a couple of self focused twits unfit for civil discourse. Anybody congratulating either of them would benefit from getting a bit of a grip in my view. |
| GratefulFan 21.04.2010 12:28 |
cacatua wrote: Yes, I am loyal, and call me a "Stepford" if you wish. If that is the worst thing I ever get called then I can live with it.You've mentioned the Stepford thing a couple of times in different posts, and I've always wondered why. I love that you're loyal, and I love even more that you're effective in your loyalty. You're gently persistant, but you listen and you give and you take and adjust where necessary. You set the tone beautifully on your Facebook Save Me posts. YOU should be in charge. :) cacatua wrote: I don't disagree with anything you have said, because it is all true. BUT I am less judgemental about it because I have an artistic nature too, and that tends to make you inclined to have emotions stronger than more normal people, which creates the drive to do works of art. But it makes one prone to getting stressed out more easily and having a meltdown.It's a real mistake to think that any given arrangement of people have the market cornered on compassion, stronger or superior emotions, creativity, stress, depression or anything else. Everybody has a story cacatua. If I had a nickel for every person on Save Me that expressed some form of 'we're lucky because we're the good people that care" (as opposed to all those nasty 'other' that don't) I'd be well on my way to Stanley Cup playoff tickets. It's completely misguided. Almost everybody is passionate about something important. If passion and emotion alone were the secret ingredient for wisdom and rational decisions we'd stack juries with the loved ones of the murder victim. But we don't do that. There are one or two things that incense me to the point that I know my rationality can get suspect. It doesn't mean I care less about other things like animal cruelty or children's rights, or any other issue that engages our emotions. It just means that the really transparently bad arguments (we should all rewatch the scene in Bambi when Bambi's mom gets shot? Really?), fallacious thinking, eliminationist rhetoric and cute pictures of foxes slide right off the plate just like they should. |
| cacatua 21.04.2010 13:42 |
GratefulFan There is a lot of energy at Save Me wall on Facebook. It runs far too much to sniping back and forth with "the other side". I don't like it either and I have several times posted things like I did this morning about harnessing that energy and diverting at least some of it towards these great rescues and wildlife hospitals which are always short of funds and people to volunteer to ACTUALLY DO SOME GOOD FOR THE ANIMALS!!! Yesterday I posted about some of the permanent animals at Tiggywinkle (hehehe - what a name) in need of being adopted by someone to pay for their care on a yearly basis, and someone jumped right in there for the fox anyway, but the comment I left this morning seems to have died. Meanwhile there is all of this professed sympathy devoted to outrage. I have proposed to Brian that he try to direct some of this energy in a more positive direction, but the only thing he has answered back so far is about how the treatment of the animals drives him to despair, and he really vented himself out spitefully in the new section called "Lame Claims" at the Save Me website. For god's sake, do a longer version of the Save Me anthem, release it to iTunes for the troops on the wall and give the proceeds to the rescue places or something, which I suppose is easier for me to toss out there than to do. I see such a good opportunity here, with people coming on board from everywhere, to start a world-wide movement for the long haul, but I don't know if it can morph into a more positive force or not. Right now it seems more of a raging torrent of spiteful feelings pouring out and we do not need another PETA! I agree with what you have said to the effect that Brian could do this so much better. He just seems to be so wrapped in this thing that he has lost that perspective, and he has a whole wall of people reinforcing this very negative discourse. I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but I'm a little exhausted of ideas at the moment. As to the Stepford thing, ask Holly. |
| Holly2003 21.04.2010 13:51 |
cacatua wrote: As to the Stepford thing, ask Holly. Did I once call you a Stepford? If so, I'm sure you deserved it :p |
| cacatua 21.04.2010 14:58 |
Holly2003 wrote: cacatua wrote: As to the Stepford thing, ask Holly. Did I once call you a Stepford? If so, I'm sure you deserved it :p ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I've decided to own it! :oP)))))))))))))))))))))) |
| Holly2003 21.04.2010 15:39 |
cacatua wrote: Holly2003 wrote: cacatua wrote: As to the Stepford thing, ask Holly. Did I once call you a Stepford? If so, I'm sure you deserved it :p ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I've decided to own it! :oP)))))))))))))))))))))) Ha! :) |
| 4 x Vision 22.04.2010 10:48 |
I'm shocked, I emailed him and got a PROPER response on his poster speech put up on his Soapbox... gave me a wee buzz even at 31 lol (big kid). I tried to get in a Queen related question on the box set on the fly (the one we've all given up on), he PS'd a joke and said I'd get the first "all encompassing box set " (whatever that is... prob the 4 x singles collection). He better be a man of his word or I'll kick the shit out of a fox and wear a badger as a hat! |
| cacatua 22.04.2010 13:51 |
At risk of being boo'd out of here I am going to share this with you. I put it on the Wall this morning at the Save Me campaign: FOXFIRE This is my song: I am a red and special fox At times a glowing ember in retreat But then again a flame Dancing across the meadow The sweet smell of dewey grass Comes up to intoxicate me Now a scent of meadow mice - I will dance with them a while And my cubs will eat well Do you not love to see my Blazing coat, my bushy tail And my fine, long black velvet gloves? Am I not a vision that Warms you like a flame in the fireplace? Come warm yourself before my fire. |
| cacatua 23.04.2010 13:42 |
cacatua wrote: At risk of being boo'd out of here I am going to share this with you. I put it on the Wall this morning at the Save Me campaign: FOXFIRE This is my song: I am a red and special fox At times a glowing ember in retreat But then again a flame Dancing across the meadow The sweet smell of dewey grass Comes up to intoxicate me Now a scent of meadow mice - I will dance with them a while And my cubs will eat well Do you not love to see my Blazing coat, my bushy tail And my fine, long black velvet gloves? Am I not a vision that Warms you like a flame in the fireplace? Come warm yourself before my fire. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Well, at least one person got the most blatant reference to Bri's guitar in my poem at the Facebook Save Me wall. No one caught the second one. Have you heard that Bri's reply to Parsons, If you ever come within sniffing distance of me, I'll have your guts for garters, you pathetic, arrogant, jumped-up snivelling little dweeb! is now the quote of the day at the Guardian? It seems to have grown legs like Joe Biden's "This is a big fuckin' deal!" comment to Obama that got caught accidentally by an open microphone. Like them or not they seem to have struck a chord............... :op |
| YourValentine 24.04.2010 03:20 |
I believe that nobody can seriously deny that Brian May has every right to voice his opinion as loud and in every way he prefers. However, even Brian May has to admit that nobody would listen much to what he has to say if he were not such a popular and public figure due to his success as Queen's guitar player. If he were a good scientist, professor at Oxford and not the guitar player with Queen - nobody would listen to his campaign and the press would not send a camera team to report on the campaign. If you campaign for an important issue, there is always the danger that you proviide the "enemy" with ammunition against your cause and Brian seems to be an expert in doing just this. He should know by now that you need to control your "submit" button when you have a public blog and when you are a celebrity whose blog is watched by the media. It just does not help to post insulting messages and even threats of violence and then blame it on the press a couple of days later. Today he had to apologise to Victoria Beckham for wrongfully accusing her to wear a fox tail with her outfit - how embarrassing is that? At least the basic facts should be correct when you shout about other "celebs" on your blog because the other celebs have lawyers, too and do not shut up like a local counsillor. The "Save Me " facebook group is ruled by a horrible bunch of fundamentalists who make the few campaign opponents look like the sane part of the spectrum. Brian used to be aware of the dangers of facebook and other networks and he stayed away. He should have trusted this instinct. I am sure he learns a lot from this campaign and next time he will approach such an issue with more caution and more professionalism. |
| cacatua 24.04.2010 08:49 |
YourValentine wrote: I believe that nobody can seriously deny that Brian May has every right to voice his opinion as loud and in every way he prefers. However, even Brian May has to admit that nobody would listen much to what he has to say if he were not such a popular and public figure due to his success as Queen's guitar player. If he were a good scientist, professor at Oxford and not the guitar player with Queen - nobody would listen to his campaign and the press would not send a camera team to report on the campaign. If you campaign for an important issue, there is always the danger that you proviide the "enemy" with ammunition against your cause and Brian seems to be an expert in doing just this. He should know by now that you need to control your "submit" button when you have a public blog and when you are a celebrity whose blog is watched by the media. It just does not help to post insulting messages and even threats of violence and then blame it on the press a couple of days later. Today he had to apologise to Victoria Beckham for wrongfully accusing her to wear a fox tail with her outfit - how embarrassing is that? At least the basic facts should be correct when you shout about other "celebs" on your blog because the other celebs have lawyers, too and do not shut up like a local counsillor. The "Save Me " facebook group is ruled by a horrible bunch of fundamentalists who make the few campaign opponents look like the sane part of the spectrum. Brian used to be aware of the dangers of facebook and other networks and he stayed away. He should have trusted this instinct. I am sure he learns a lot from this campaign and next time he will approach such an issue with more caution and more professionalism. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I began hearing rumors about the Beckham faux foxtails last night but could not see anything at the Soapbox but the original picture of her, and Brian's statement, which did also say, "Tell me this isn't true." This morning the picture was gone, and I found the letter concerning the affair. Apparently it takes longer for the new posts at the Soapbox to get to mid-America! So, Brian was told that it indeed was NOT true. I didn't see a great deal of contentiousness from either side in the letters posted. BUT there is a great deal of enthusiasm at Facebook, and it sounds like a lot of young people. I recall a couple of days ago when they saw this Beckham picture and were all pestering Brian with it. More enthusiasm than fact-checking. But Brian should have fact-checked before posting it. I looked at the pictures, showing the "tails" in various fashion colors, and said hmmmmm....but sort of ignored the whole thing until now. It remains to be seen if it will cause another dust-up or not, though it is hard to believe that the other side will not latch onto it and trumpet it far and wide to discredit Brian's campaign. The campaign opponents that post at Facebook do not look sane to me, or at least not the ones I have happened to see on the wall, many of whom appear to be a bunch of louts just there to get a rise out of anyone who will respond. Of course Brian has this platform because of C-lebrity! He has a great deal of passion for this cause and campaign, and I think that the tail wags the dog some of the time. There is not doubt that it is quite a learning experience, but I give him a lot credit for putting himself out there on behalf of animals, even though such a thing is a mine field, instead of playing it safe. Stuff like this happens. Then you apologize, regroup and go on, lesson learned. |
| cacatua 24.04.2010 09:26 |
I just wanted to add that there are people from all over the world who have befriended Brian's campaign at Facebook - over 18,000 now in just over a week! So anyone is welcome to join as a show of support. |
| The Real Wizard 24.04.2010 13:10 |
YourValentine wrote: "If you campaign for an important issue, there is always the danger that you proviide the "enemy" with ammunition against your cause and Brian seems to be an expert in doing just this." No doubt Brian uses his status as a famous rock musician to give him a platform to make his views heard. There will always be people who will condemn him for using his status this way, but those people will always be fewer in number than those will be positively affected by the message. Should the fact that he's a famous musician render him unqualified to voice his opinion? Absolutely not, and he refuses to bow down to that. He may not be doing a perfect job, but he's giving a voice to a very good cause. That's the bottom line. |
| cacatua 24.04.2010 13:28 |
Sir GH wrote: YourValentine wrote: "If you campaign for an important issue, there is always the danger that you proviide the "enemy" with ammunition against your cause and Brian seems to be an expert in doing just this." No doubt Brian uses his status as a famous rock musician to give him a platform to make his views heard. There will always be people who will condemn him for using his status this way, but those people will always be fewer in number than those will be positively affected by the message. Should the fact that he's a famous musician render him unqualified to voice his opinion? Absolutely not, and he refuses to bow down to that. He may not be doing a perfect job, but he's giving a voice to a very good cause. That's the bottom line. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Thank you kind Sir GH. It often feels as though one is swimming against the current here. |
| cacatua 26.04.2010 10:32 |
A new Brian interview about himself and the Save Me campaign: link |
| cacatua 29.04.2010 22:47 |
Bri's video: Bollocks To The Economy! link |
| Marknow 30.04.2010 01:10 |
The poor old sod is going senile. It's almost like performance art. They may as well close down youtube, nothing is ever gonna top that. Btw, can anyone translate what Sir Patrick Moore said? |
| YourValentine 30.04.2010 06:15 |
This video is just another example how you can hurt your own cause. What has fox hunting to do with the economy? Not much I suppose. To say that politicians should not talk about the economy but only about fox hunting is not even worth a discussion. I do not know about England but in my country we - the people who have to work for a living - are very concerned about the economy and we would not vote for anyone who thinks the economy is not on top of the political agenda. But then the video is supposed to be funny..... I believe. And this is the problem: surely it's funny for all the supporters of the cause but everybody else will probably shake their collective heads in amazement. |
| cacatua 30.04.2010 06:54 |
You aren't appreciating the fact that in spite of many submitting questions for the debates and otherwise, the topic of bringing back the blood sports is never even mentioned, and many of those involved in Brian's campaign find that people are upset when they find out that if elected Cameron will bring back these "sports". It is a matter of informing people so that they will at least know this when they decide who to vote for. The video is intentionally over-the-top due to this frustration. |
| beautifulsoup 30.04.2010 07:40 |
Ack, that video. It's satire...AND it's serious...and the two together don't exactly work. (For me, anyway). Looks like Brian tamed his hair for this! Nice touch to use the BANG! thing (in flames), I have to say. |
| YourValentine 30.04.2010 08:12 |
cacatua wrote: You aren't appreciating the fact that in spite of many submitting questions for the debates and otherwise, the topic of bringing back the blood sports is never even mentioned, and many of those involved in Brian's campaign find that people are upset when they find out that if elected Cameron will bring back these "sports". It is a matter of informing people so that they will at least know this when they decide who to vote for. The video is intentionally over-the-top due to this frustration. Sorry but I do not understand your point: If the video is aimed at the supporters of the campaign, it's probably funny for the people involved in the campaign. However, if the video is aimed at the general public it should me more serious and more informative. The 101 "bollocks" in the video are not designed to make people understand why it is so much more important to vote against a party who might re-introduce a law than to vote for a party who has a certain opinion about the economy, the euro, the financial crisis, the war in Afghanistan and other issues the general public may find important. It is always a danger when you campaign: you go over the top and you do not take into account that people draw from many sources of information and this video does not inform people, it just appeals to the supporters who are convinced, anyway. Venting frustration is not a good method to win a point in a political argument. |
| cacatua 30.04.2010 08:31 |
YourValentine wrote: cacatua wrote: You aren't appreciating the fact that in spite of many submitting questions for the debates and otherwise, the topic of bringing back the blood sports is never even mentioned, and many of those involved in Brian's campaign find that people are upset when they find out that if elected Cameron will bring back these "sports". It is a matter of informing people so that they will at least know this when they decide who to vote for. The video is intentionally over-the-top due to this frustration. Sorry but I do not understand your point: If the video is aimed at the supporters of the campaign, it's probably funny for the people involved in the campaign. However, if the video is aimed at the general public it should me more serious and more informative. The 101 "bollocks" in the video are not designed to make people understand why it is so much more important to vote against a party who might re-introduce a law than to vote for a party who has a certain opinion about the economy, the euro, the financial crisis, the war in Afghanistan and other issues the general public may find important. It is always a danger when you campaign: you go over the top and you do not take into account that people draw from many sources of information and this video does not inform people, it just appeals to the supporters who are convinced, anyway. Venting frustration is not a good method to win a point in a political argument. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Awwwww, cummon.............I remember full well when I was invovled in the politics of our last election int USA that far more people glommed onto some soundbyte and passed it on, than would watch anything serious and informative. With serious and informative you were mostly beating your gums for the exercise. If anyone IS inclined to want to find out what's behind this, then they can look up the website. |
| The Real Wizard 30.04.2010 10:06 |
Instead of having an informative (but bland) video, he went the satire route. These days humour tends to reach out to people, and that will spark the interest to look into the cause far more than a serious video would. Brian is not looking for political credibility. He is a very intelligent man and knows exactly what he's doing... and having a good time in the process. |
| GratefulFan 30.04.2010 10:59 |
He's tyring to make a fun viral video, which is fine and cool and everything, and the tone of the video is right for that. And cacatua is right - political messages are, sadly, best delivered as low information packets. However his hope that people would use their vote for foxes and not to "line their pockets" predates any frustrations about what was or wasn't asked at the debates. He said that weeks ago. And it's a bit hard to square up with his other comments that imply David Cameron was irresponsible to bring up the hunting ban in the midst of serious economic troubles(!) At any rate, how effective a group of mostly very wealthy Britons who at worst risk unfavourable tax conditions for their millions are going to be at encouraging people to say 'bollocks to the economy' remains to be seen. A lot of people are going to laugh at this for all the wrong reasons. On one level it's kind of like end stage narcissism. I just shook my head. |
| Brian_Mays_Wig 30.04.2010 11:13 |
I love Queen but I cant support this "bollocks".............the bloke has lost it completely. Whilst im not for blood sports of any kind, I just cannot believe what a twat the bloke is making himself look. I have heard about this campaign once on Sky TV, nobody is interested. All im interested is someone who can justify what my taxes are being spent on and why the fuck I am spending £1.20 on a litre of petrol, £3.00 for a pint of lager and £6.00 on cigs! TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX FUCKING TAX. Bollocks to the foxes, I would rather see my money put to better use. |
| cacatua 30.04.2010 11:45 |
I'm not British, so it isn't my place to speak about your taxes. Neither am I one of the militant animal rights people who post on Brian's wall at Facebook. I actually saw someone come close to apologizing for having posted a picture of a fox that had killed something and was eating it, as though foxes are such angels that they don't partake of such activities. It can get pretty smarmy sometimes for my taste, but I think there is a larger issue here about standing against people who get their entertainment from terrifying animals. They do not think of animals as being anything but objects for whatever their purposes may be. Brian is working his butt off on this, and spending his own money. I thought he explained it well in the interview to which I posted a link the other day. Obviously there are those here who will take issue with most anything he says or any way he portrays himself. You are entitled to your opinions, so have at it folks. I am tired of beating my head on a wall, so I resign from this thread. |
| Brian_Mays_Wig 30.04.2010 13:00 |
I would rather he just stuck to playing the guitar. |
| Holly2003 30.04.2010 13:08 |
Brian_Mays_Wig wrote: I love Queen but I cant support this "bollocks".............the bloke has lost it completely. Whilst im not for blood sports of any kind, I just cannot believe what a twat the bloke is making himself look. I have heard about this campaign once on Sky TV, nobody is interested. All im interested is someone who can justify what my taxes are being spent on and why the fuck I am spending £1.20 on a litre of petrol, £3.00 for a pint of lager and £6.00 on cigs! TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX FUCKING TAX. Bollocks to the foxes, I would rather see my money put to better use. 20 Silk Cut purple is £4.20 in my local shop. Not that I smoke them, I just happen to know that, for reasons I won't bore you with. The irony is, though, some of those cigs were probably tested on foxes before being sold. Or monkeys. Or possibly butterflies, but I'll be the first to admit that's a bit unlikely. |
| GratefulFan 30.04.2010 17:02 |
I think there is a larger issue here about standing against people who get their entertainment from terrifying animals. They do not think of animals as being anything but objects for whatever their purposes may be. I'm not British either, so really what do I know about fox hunting, but I doubt the vast majority of hunters think of themselves or their activities that way. What you say may be true, but it's not something that is so self evident it stands without any need for support or explanation. One would think it would be fairly easy to make a clear, concise arguments for policies that have already been passed into law. But again and again you see rhetoric and overstatement. You see attacks on people rather than ideas. It makes you wonder. Bear in mind this is coming from a person who put up with mice scuttling and chewing in the walls and surprise poop here and there for 6 months because I can't live release in the winter. I finally caught my first one on Wednesday and we brought it to a field for an uncertain future. Some people might call me nice things. Others might call me an idiot. They probaby all have a point. Outside of unambiguous cruelty, for which we have good and important laws, you'd have to work fairly hard to convince me that attitudes and decisions surrounding human/animal interactions should be anything other than personal moral choices. |
| GratefulFan 03.05.2010 12:41 |
I caught another mouse on Sunday. Woo hoo! It was stated on the SaveMe Facebook site over the weekend that we here at Queenzone are pretty much a gang of the bitchy and disloyal who just think Brian should stick to the guitar where he belongs. Which I think is a crap statement and more than a little unfair, but whatever. 'Cause I caught another mouse! |
| cacatua 03.05.2010 13:58 |
GratefulFan wrote: I caught another mouse on Sunday. Woo hoo! It was stated on the SaveMe Facebook site over the weekend that we here at Queenzone are pretty much a gang of the bitchy and disloyal who just think Brian should stick to the guitar where he belongs. Which I think is a crap statement and more than a little unfair, but whatever. 'Cause I caught another mouse! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Exact quote: I've all but disassociated myself with Queenzone over this. I kept a thread going until the other day, but the vocal ones seem to have the attitude that Brian should shut up and get back to his music, and it gets worse from there. Little loyalty. I wheedled and explained myself and this cause until blue in the face, and the next thing was to get really pissed and tell them what I REALLY thought, which wouldn't have accomplished anything, though I would have felt better! But I do think that queenzone is somewhat known for it's bitchiness. #1 - Didn't your mother teach you that it isn't nice to tattle? #2 - If the shoe fits.................. #3 - I was speaking to someone who assumed that if one were a Queen fan then one would support Brian - HA! She must have gotten that impression from another owner of a Queen fansite who said She and all of her members were joining Save Me and throwing their support behind Brian's campaign. #4 - Apologies to those here who do not fit the above category. (Dragonfly, Amazon, Pittrek, Sir GH, Van Basten?, Beautiful Soup) #5 - You are welcome to prove me wrong by joining Save Me. It might be really cool to see those at Queenzone who are the most vocal pulling FOR Brian instead of throwing insults at him for a change. |
| YourValentine 03.05.2010 15:01 |
Maybe I am blind but I did not see anybody saying that Brian should stick to his guitar and not campaign against fox hunting except Brian's wig in his second posting. I think the discussion was quite civilised as yet. What bothers me and a couple of other people is the way how Brian presents his case in public. For example, somehow I do not think it's a good thing by any means to threaten to beat up a person on an internet blog, that's just my opinion. I do not think it's bitchy or overly criticising. I do think that you are quite immature when you cannot stand that someone disagrees with you. It's quite funny that we argue about an issue that does not affect us because we both do not have a say in the election. I find it even funnier that you think that people are bitchy in this thread whereas you earlier defended the Save Me facebook page where people compare hunters with serial killers and call supporters of the Tories psychopaths. As to loyalty: I love Queen music and I buy records, concerts tickets, books and other products, that's how far my loyalty goes. I do NOTgive up thinking for myself and "follow" a Queen member in any issues other than music. I really find it ridiculous when someone suggests I should have a certain opinion about ANY political or social issue just because Brian May happens to have this opinion, for me that is absurd. |
| GratefulFan 03.05.2010 15:20 |
#1 It's hardly tattling. And how ironic that you should say so. #2 On the other hand, it's not ironic at all that apologies are handed out to those who seem to agree with you on some or all levels. It's quite predictable. That seems to be the bar for assessing sound thinking and good people in the Save Me world. #3 It makes me sad to feel shut out of an opportunity to indirectly pay back someone who has personally given me so much through music because it's impossible for me to support the campaign in it's current form. A few others have agreed or expressed similar sentiments. Did it occur to you that it might make some people feel sad? I doubt it. #4 I know you feel very passionate about this, are enjoying your role and have a lot to contribute. I wish you luck. #5 I'm off to eat a mango now. Have a great day. |
| cacatua 03.05.2010 15:39 |
I have heard the opinion expressed so many times here in various threads that Brian should just shut up about any other interests and get back to his guitar that it is firmly etched in my memory. I have heard it said here also that people are critical here and if you want to be in some fan group that is agreeable with whatever Queen or a member of Queen does then to join Queen Online, as if one could............but that's another topic. I apologized to those who had been supportive of Brian. If being supportive of Brian meant that they agreed with me then so be it. |
| GratefulFan 03.05.2010 17:54 |
If a guy's kinda maybe possibly shooting himself in the foot, there might be other valid ways to support him beyond holding his boot steady for him. |
| GratefulFan 03.05.2010 18:19 |
YourValentine wrote: Maybe I am blind but I did not see anybody saying that Brian should stick to his guitar and not campaign against fox hunting except Brian's wig in his second posting. I think the discussion was quite civilised as yet. What bothers me and a couple of other people is the way how Brian presents his case in public. For example, somehow I do not think it's a good thing by any means to threaten to beat up a person on an internet blog, that's just my opinion. I do not think it's bitchy or overly criticising. I do think that you are quite immature when you cannot stand that someone disagrees with you. It's quite funny that we argue about an issue that does not affect us because we both do not have a say in the election. I find it even funnier that you think that people are bitchy in this thread whereas you earlier defended the Save Me facebook page where people compare hunters with serial killers and call supporters of the Tories psychopaths. As to loyalty: I love Queen music and I buy records, concerts tickets, books and other products, that's how far my loyalty goes. I do NOTgive up thinking for myself and "follow" a Queen member in any issues other than music. I really find it ridiculous when someone suggests I should have a certain opinion about ANY political or social issue just because Brian May happens to have this opinion, for me that is absurd. ============================================================================ As you say there is many more than one way to be loyal. And I don't in any way denigrate the kind of loyalty cacatua speaks of - there is immense value in simply having someone's back when they need it, with broad tolerance and few questions asked, and a patient focus on the big picture through the messier details. That's a very important type of loyalty and I've certainly been there in the past with other people and issues. But the problem in my view is that there is nothing reciprocal in this instance. No acknowledgement that there are equally important prinicples at stake that also need people as fiercely loyal to things like social fairness and cautious reason in order to come to the best conclusions for a very emotional and politically difficult issue. You hear over and over, straight from the top, that they're simply right. End of. It's as unappealing as anything can be. |
| cacatua 03.05.2010 19:08 |
As Adam lambert would say, "Whadda you want from me?" We've already had this conversation! You know I made an attempt to warn Brian that the tail was beginning to wag the dog, as if I had any inflence. The die is cast. I'm not comfortable with the black and white of it, but two of my passions intersect here and I believe in the overall scheme of things this is the good fight, if there is such a thing. I believe that a good teacher sharing his or her love of a subject accomplishes far more that these pitched battles, where you make enemies and THEN try to convince them you are right. It ain't going to happen. The only real way is to teach the children. I hate the vitriolic things that are hurled around. Today someone posted something vile and disgusting that was said by "Bring Back Fox Hunting" about Freddie, Queen and Brian. I was so pissed I went tearing over there for the first time and wanted to scream my head off at them! I only got the satisfaction of reporting the one who posted it. I try to stay totally away from this stuff, but this was simply past the tipping point. That is a by product of this sort of thing. I try to fit in, though sometimes feel a square peg in a round hole - sort of like here. Brian is either very courageous or he really had no idea what he was in for. But if this is what he wants then I'm there, even if it is OTT. There are plenty of good people there too. Not just the rabid ones. I have had, and still have too many fine hours of listening to Queen while at my workbench or on the road to not be willing to "have Brian's back" as you say. In my opinion, Brian's guitar is the signature sound of Queen. I wish I could play so I could understand better the mechanics of it, but we are not all blessed with the same talents, and this horse is too old to begin learning something like that. Besides, I need my fingernails! Now, I must get back to work. |
| GratefulFan 03.05.2010 20:24 |
I have a massive headache, and now I must get the hell away from work. Allow me just to say that my evil plan to lure you back to the thread you retired from worked excellently. What can I say? I'm kinda naughty that way. :p You feel like a square peg in a round hole because you kind of are in a small but important way. You are a unique voice and have a somewhat uncommon point of view about this and other things too. Which is why I think it would be great if you stuck around being unique and uncommon. And Stepfordy too. But you really should stop being mean to Queenzone on the internet. |
| cacatua 03.05.2010 23:04 |
Last time I looked there weren't too many shrinking violets hanging around here. I think Queenzone is a little tougher than to be crushed at what I said. :oP))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) |
| GratefulFan 05.05.2010 16:32 |
I was thinking about the Victoria-Beckham-wearing-a-foxtail thing the other day, specifically in comparison to indiginous North American people wearing animal skins and parts and such in a decorative or culturally symbolic way. I think far fewer people would object to the latter. Why is that? A lot of weight seems to be given to intent in the debate overall. I'm not sure it really makes sense. |
| cacatua 05.05.2010 17:10 |
Because animals are spiritual relatives to Indians and aboriginal people. Skins, feathers, teeth, bones and the like that are used as decoration also have spiritual properties that tie the wearer to the the animals. I doubt that Victoria Beckham has the slightest idea where those tails might originate or give a rat's ass for that matter. Last I heard they were faux tails. |
| GratefulFan 05.05.2010 19:49 |
Though I understand and accept your points, it should be acknowledged that you've given a deliberately generous interpretation for natives and a deliberately stingy one for Beckham. Many natives wear or utilize animal skins and skulls etc. outside of spiritual rituals as simple symbols of cultural pride or of the reclamation of their stolen history. No one questions their use in works of art which can be and often are sold for profit to anybody who wants to buy them - spiritual connection unknown. In the end animals are usually worn because it makes the wearer feel a certain way about themselves and their place in their own culture. Couldn't you say the same about a woman wearing a fox tail on her bag? The story that is woven around one situation feels reverent and good and the story around the other is represented as shallow and callous. I'm not yet convinced that's not entirely arbitrary. |
| cacatua 05.05.2010 20:12 |
Apologies to Victoria Beckham. Perhaps she did the sweatlodge purification and has gone on a vision quest and found her animal spiritual guide to be a fox. I have no idea, but I know what the odds are....... |
| GratefulFan 05.05.2010 20:16 |
Either you missed my points entirely or just rejected them outright. :) |
| cacatua 05.05.2010 20:26 |
Or perhaps both................... |
| Holly2003 06.05.2010 01:46 |
cacatua wrote: Or perhaps both................... And yet you wonder why most here don't give a hoot about Save Me ... |
| cacatua 06.05.2010 08:28 |
.........OK............I have read quite a lot of Indian authors, both old and contemporary. I feel that aboriginal people had the correct relationship with the natural world, before people began to worship at the alter of the human image in the Middle East. I have been on a long journey through life to undersatnd these things. There is a fair amount of controversy among Indians about sharing their heritage with whites to whom it may be just the latest new age fad. I met another artist at an art fair last fall who had been through quite a physical ordeal and he felt that his life had been saved by this horse that came along. After some years the horse died, which was quite a loss for him. He was acquainted with some Lakota Sioux, and to honor his horse they took some of it's hide and made a drum. then they took his heart and reduced it to ashes, which were stuffed into the end of the drumstick, so that beating the drum was symbolically the heartbeat of the horse. That sort of thing makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck. That is respecting and validating the life of an animal. That is the sort of relationship that indians have who follow theri ancient beliefs. And this artist was the sort of person who totally understood the significance of what the Indians did for him. I don't know anything about Victoria Beckham and nothing has happened to make me wish to know more about her. Last time I looked this wasn't a Victoria Beckham fansite, and if it were I wouldn't likely be here. I was not one of those who were bombarding Brian with the pictures of she and others with dyed foxtail-like appendages dangling from these bags. I don't care if she wanted to pin one on her ass, for that matter. I have a fleece duster that looks a great deal like the "tails" except it has a stick through it, and I thought the multicolored "tails" were most likely fleece. |
| cacatua 06.05.2010 12:51 |
Perhaps I am still being uncharitable to Victoria Beckham. She might be an absolutley lovely woman............ Here is a picture of the artist and his horse, who became the heartbeat of a drum. |
| GratefulFan 08.05.2010 13:15 |
On point, some thoughts from a SaveMe person: Confronted an elderley lady in RSPCA charity shop, wearing would you believe one of our friends around her neck....gave her verbal abuse & was tempted to strangle her with it.... F*****g liberty in such a place, she was shocked @ my response I can tell you but she is just asking for trouble, and boy did she get it!!! She had 2 or 3 cheerleaders from the 9th circle follow with support. Now I'm sure this person genuinely loves foxes, but I simply can't imagine being so flush with self righteousness and self certainty that I'd verbally abuse an old woman over wearing fur I knew nothing about. Sometimes change just doesn't come fast enough by committee, and radical thought and action is required. Somebody sits at the front of the bus, somebody else starts a war etc. But this is so not that. Small, ugly, largely substanceless garbage is being flung out into the void ostensibly to prevent a political move (a democratic and free vote!) for which the odds have seemed increasingly slim for weeks now. The damage to civility and empathy for others isn't worth it. It just isn't. And god help the thousands of young people on there who are learning that this is how one deals with competing ideas and the people that have them. |
| Holly2003 08.05.2010 14:20 |
cacatua wrote: Perhaps I am still being uncharitable to Victoria Beckham. She might be an absolutley lovely woman............ Here is a picture of the artist and his horse, who became the heartbeat of a drum. That dog should have a seatbelt on ;) Have you read any serious history books about the "ecological" Indian? Much of that was a myth created in the Sixties and fed by frauds like Carlos Castaneda. From what I've read, the reason native amerians didn't cause serious, lasting ecological damage* is because they didn't have the technology to do so. *And even that depends on time periods: there is strong reason to believe that in pre-history, "native Americans" over-hunted and wiped out the North America mammoth (or mastadon? I always get them confused). In Canada, in the 16-19th centuries, natives were more than happy to participate with Euro-Americans in hunting the beaver almost to extinction (although a strong case can be made that this was prompted by changes in their social environment caused by Europeans). |
| cacatua 08.05.2010 14:48 |
GratefulFan wrote: On point, some thoughts from a SaveMe person: Confronted an elderley lady in RSPCA charity shop, wearing would you believe one of our friends around her neck....gave her verbal abuse & was tempted to strangle her with it.... F*****g liberty in such a place, she was shocked @ my response I can tell you but she is just asking for trouble, and boy did she get it!!! She had 2 or 3 cheerleaders from the 9th circle follow with support. Now I'm sure this person genuinely loves foxes, but I simply can't imagine being so flush with self righteousness and self certainty that I'd verbally abuse an old woman over wearing fur I knew nothing about. Sometimes change just doesn't come fast enough by committee, and radical thought and action is required. Somebody sits at the front of the bus, somebody else starts a war etc. But this is so not that. Small, ugly, largely substanceless garbage is being flung out into the void ostensibly to prevent a political move (a democratic and free vote!) for which the odds have seemed increasingly slim for weeks now. The damage to civility and empathy for others isn't worth it. It just isn't. And god help the thousands of young people on there who are learning that this is how one deals with competing ideas and the people that have them. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Was it Brian? Do you think I would do such a thing? There is plenty of disgusting stuff coming from the other side too. Trolls bring out the worst in everyone, though occasionally remarks are hilarious too, just as they are here when there is a feeding frenzy on some absurd thread. But these emotional things bring out the worst in some, as you mentioned. |
| cacatua 08.05.2010 15:09 |
Holly2003 wrote: cacatua wrote: Perhaps I am still being uncharitable to Victoria Beckham. She might be an absolutley lovely woman............ Here is a picture of the artist and his horse, who became the heartbeat of a drum. That dog should have a seatbelt on ;) Have you read any serious history books about the "ecological" Indian? Much of that was a myth created in the Sixties and fed by frauds like Carlos Castaneda. From what I've read, the reason native amerians didn't cause serious, lasting ecological damage* is because they didn't have the technology to do so. *And even that depends on time periods: there is strong reason to believe that in pre-history, "native Americans" over-hunted and wiped out the North America mammoth (or mastadon? I always get them confused). In Canada, in the 16-19th centuries, natives were more than happy to participate with Euro-Americans in hunting the beaver almost to extinction (although a strong case can be made that this was prompted by changes in their social environment caused by Europeans). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They also raided each other's tribes and stole their horses and killed each other, like tribal people most everywhere. If they were capable of actually wiping out the rather huge and impressive mastodons, then I AM impressed! Every history or biography is filtered through someone's viewpoint, and generally there is room for interpretation, or as TE Lawrence said, "Those who win the wars get to write the history," or something to that effect. Whether they would have caused serious ecological damage had they the means to do it is possible, after all they were humans, but they pretty much lived by the laws of nature if they were the nomadic hunter-gatherers. Certainly those who farmed eventually moved on or whole cultures even became extinct when the ground was depleted. Mostly they were just tribal people trying to get along in an often hostile world and trying to understand their relationship to it, and this was when Western civilization descended upon them. Where would they have been by now if the americas had not been taken over by European invaders? Damned if I know. |
| cacatua 09.05.2010 19:32 |
GratefulFan wrote: On point, some thoughts from a SaveMe person: Confronted an elderley lady in RSPCA charity shop, wearing would you believe one of our friends around her neck....gave her verbal abuse & was tempted to strangle her with it.... F*****g liberty in such a place, she was shocked @ my response I can tell you but she is just asking for trouble, and boy did she get it!!! She had 2 or 3 cheerleaders from the 9th circle follow with support. Now I'm sure this person genuinely loves foxes, but I simply can't imagine being so flush with self righteousness and self certainty that I'd verbally abuse an old woman over wearing fur I knew nothing about. Sometimes change just doesn't come fast enough by committee, and radical thought and action is required. Somebody sits at the front of the bus, somebody else starts a war etc. But this is so not that. Small, ugly, largely substanceless garbage is being flung out into the void ostensibly to prevent a political move (a democratic and free vote!) for which the odds have seemed increasingly slim for weeks now. The damage to civility and empathy for others isn't worth it. It just isn't. And god help the thousands of young people on there who are learning that this is how one deals with competing ideas and the people that have them. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Well I hope you are happy. I got into a big row today with some militant extremists who got bent out of shape over people posting videos of Queen songs on Brian's wall. They don't seem to think the rest of us appreciate the animal rights issues properly. |
| GratefulFan 10.05.2010 13:15 |
cacatua wrote: Well I hope you are happy. I got into a big row today with some militant extremists who got bent out of shape over people posting videos of Queen songs on Brian's wall. They don't seem to think the rest of us appreciate the animal rights issues properly. ================================================================= Dug back to see what you were talking about. That was brutal! LOL Hopefully you're alright today. Knowing you a little, I'm sure you will be. Okay, SaveMe now has another problem which I've noted brewing for a bit. When you hear this problem, I know you will laugh and immediately know I'm telling the truth. The problem is a grave one, and it's this: Too many women are in one place at one time. Lots of love and hugs and sisterhood with 17 people there ready to say good morning to whoever, everything pink and sweet and shimmering and bedazzled, groaning restlessly over a roiling molten hell that is waiting to break loose at any moment. And when it does, everybody dives in, lifetime allegiances are formed, the poop flies everywhere, a couple of men step in and try to calm people down, largely unsuccessfully, at which point they throw up their hands and say 'f*ck this shit' and go do something sensible like drink beer or hammer on something, God love 'em. :) Joking aside, the person that started with you is a bit of cancer I hope your community gets rid of, and fast. Not only is she totally disruptive, she violated one of my highest moral urgencies aka 'The Sanctity of the PM'. I don't care who PMs me. I don't even care if it's skip and he gives me three weeks of free material. PMs should never be posted or discussed publically, particularly when the rat posting them is trying to use them like weapons grade plutonium. Yuck. I hereby committ to a lifetime of hating her in your name. ;) Anyway, glad you survived. |
| GratefulFan 10.05.2010 13:22 |
And it was definitely the mammoth they hunted to death. I know this for sure because I have a pet mastadon. Honestly, you people should have this sort of thing straight. |
| Holly2003 10.05.2010 13:36 |
GratefulFan wrote: And it was definitely the mammoth they hunted to death. I know this for sure because I have a pet mastadon. Honestly, you people should have this sort of thing straight. Ha! |
| cacatua 10.05.2010 15:23 |
GratefulFan wrote: cacatua wrote: Well I hope you are happy. I got into a big row today with some militant extremists who got bent out of shape over people posting videos of Queen songs on Brian's wall. They don't seem to think the rest of us appreciate the animal rights issues properly. ================================================================= Dug back to see what you were talking about. That was brutal! LOL Hopefully you're alright today. Knowing you a little, I'm sure you will be. Okay, SaveMe now has another problem which I've noted brewing for a bit. When you hear this problem, I know you will laugh and immediately know I'm telling the truth. The problem is a grave one, and it's this: Too many women are in one place at one time. Lots of love and hugs and sisterhood with 17 people there ready to say good morning to whoever, everything pink and sweet and shimmering and bedazzled, groaning restlessly over a roiling molten hell that is waiting to break loose at any moment. And when it does, everybody dives in, lifetime allegiances are formed, the poop flies everywhere, a couple of men step in and try to calm people down, largely unsuccessfully, at which point they throw up their hands and say 'f*ck this shit' and go do something sensible like drink beer or hammer on something, God love 'em. :) Joking aside, the person that started with you is a bit of cancer I hope your community gets rid of, and fast. Not only is she totally disruptive, she violated one of my highest moral urgencies aka 'The Sanctity of the PM'. I don't care who PMs me. I don't even care if it's skip and he gives me three weeks of free material. PMs should never be posted or discussed publically, particularly when the rat posting them is trying to use them like weapons grade plutonium. Yuck. I hereby committ to a lifetime of hating her in your name. ;) Anyway, glad you survived. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Yes I survived but the bloom is off the rose unless these whackos leave. But the ONE, and if you went back through it then you know WHICH ONE, wielded the sacred PM like some sort of a battleaxe. I found it enlightening that she said they all belonged to this other, bigger and supposedly more impressive group where everyone agreed with their viewpoint. So why are they in Brian's group stinking up things? Why don't they leave us to our more easy-going ways? Because they are troublemakers, is why. I wonder if in reality they got run off from another group? I think one of the guys suggested it was hard to tell if some people were trolls or anti's, and I remember wondering that a time or two in the past when reading some posts. I sat on my hands for a long time, and now I guess as far as I am concerned they don't exist. I wonder how long that will last. I can live with the lovey-dovey stuff easier. There are a couple of people there who are a real hoot. After the main part of the battle the troublemakers put up a spate of mangled animal pictures and we posted Queen songs with appropriate titles, like I'm Going Slightly Mad................... :oD |
| GratefulFan 20.05.2010 23:08 |
I saw something on SaveMe that disturbed me the other day, and for once it wasn't one of the people on there. It was this crazy picture of a grinning woman with a big rifle and her trophy dead giraffe. I know that I perhaps should have known this already, but apparently it's common as dirt for people to pay tens of thouands of dollars to go to Africa and kill five or ten exotic animals and then be photographed with their kill, their rifles leaning up against the animals' weirdly posed dead carcasses. Just one man's story: http://www.azod.com/hunting/Archive/2005/Q1/Safari/default.htm Not a pretty or particularly comprehensible side of human nature IMO. |
| cacatua 21.05.2010 14:12 |
GratefulFan wrote: I saw something on SaveMe that disturbed me the other day, and for once it wasn't one of the people on there. It was this crazy picture of a grinning woman with a big rifle and her trophy dead giraffe. I know that I perhaps should have known this already, but apparently it's common as dirt for people to pay tens of thouands of dollars to go to Africa and kill five or ten exotic animals and then be photographed with their kill, their rifles leaning up against the animals' weirdly posed dead carcasses. Just one man's story: link Not a pretty or particularly comprehensible side of human nature IMO. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It is all pretty repulsive this day and age, when many of these animals have to be protected somewhere in order for someone to then go and shoot them. Not a bad death if it is a clean kill I suppose, compared to some. I fail to see why anyone would want to shoot a giraffe. To see that long neck curved gracefully in an arc with it's nose resting on the ground, and then remind myself that it is dead is kind of surreal. Really first-class petting zoos were having baby giraffes here several years ago, and I always wondered what happened to them when they got really big. Never got around to asking someone though. Dealing with a camel was "interesting" enough for me. In the Middle East they have camel dairy's, which seems like a lot of animal for the amount of milk produced, though that is one of their various uses for the Bedouin. They also roast and eat them. I can't imagine killing a camel to eat it or otherwise, unless it was a crazed bull was coming after me. The Bedouin didn't have much use for bull camels in the old days, and a bull calf became dinner, so they could have all of it's mother's milk. Bulls were too noisey for raiding partys. They were used some for hauling baggage, but would just sit down if they didn't want to do something. A really big Bedouin shindig called for a roasted camel, stuffed with a sheep, stuffed with chickens, stuffed with hard-boiled eggs. My mind boggles at the task of doing that one! Sorry, a trip down memory lane there. Brian sounded a little down last night, so someone started a discussion topic that he should take the weekend off from Save Me and recharge. |
| Makka 06.06.2010 23:05 |
I suppose the Save Me campaign has just hit a major snag with two little girls attacked in their cot by a Fox. Back to the badgers I presume for Mr May! |
| GratefulFan 07.06.2010 23:02 |
Absolutely not. Brian is a sensitive, articulate, intelligent man and he's got it completely under control. As Britain's Empath-in-Chief he is naturally extremely concerned about the infant girls first and foremost, but amazing as he is he's able to keep one rolling paternal eye on simian flight patterns as well. See here: http://www.facebook.com/notes/save-me/fox-attacks-babies-sure-and-monkeys-will-fly-/134056359938159 |
| GratefulFan 08.06.2010 15:12 |
Brian put a stereo pair up on brianmay.com. Made me strangely happy (really). I miss those pictures a lot (really). Among other things, I think I associate them with a time when he was disturbing me a lot less. |
| cacatua 08.06.2010 16:07 |
GratefulFan wrote: Absolutely not. Brian is a sensitive, articulate, intelligent man and he's got it completely under control. As Britain's Empath-in-Chief he is naturally extremely concerned about the infant girls first and foremost, but amazing as he is he's able to keep one rolling paternal eye on simian flight patterns as well. See here: link ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ More like flying foxes, actually. :oD |
| cacatua 08.06.2010 16:11 |
GratefulFan wrote: Brian put a stereo pair up on brianmay.com. Made me strangely happy (really). I miss those pictures a lot (really). Among other things, I think I associate them with a time when he was disturbing me a lot less. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Does it look to you as if he trimmed his hair before going to see "Hair?" Brian has his army now for support, validation, bootlicking...................... ;o) |
| GratefulFan 08.06.2010 16:32 |
cacatua wrote: GratefulFan wrote: Absolutely not. Brian is a sensitive, articulate, intelligent man and he's got it completely under control. As Britain's Empath-in-Chief he is naturally extremely concerned about the infant girls first and foremost, but amazing as he is he's able to keep one rolling paternal eye on simian flight patterns as well. See here: link ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ More like flying foxes, actually. :oD ========================= I don't mind spiders, or frogs, or mice or almost anything else, but I am terrified beyond reason over bats. They cause me to scream and hide and eventually be pried loose from whatever I'm clinging to by something much larger and taller than I. I don't want them to die or anything, mind you. |
| GratefulFan 08.06.2010 16:54 |
cacatua wrote: GratefulFan wrote: Brian put a stereo pair up on brianmay.com. Made me strangely happy (really). I miss those pictures a lot (really). Among other things, I think I associate them with a time when he was disturbing me a lot less. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Does it look to you as if he trimmed his hair before going to see "Hair?" Brian has his army now for support, validation, bootlicking...................... ;o) ============================== I didn't notice, but I thought it was a nice picture of him. And how novel that he should be snapped with young theatre women! And, painfully, it must also be said: Reactivate Fun Wit. That might be an anagram. And to your latter point...completely unfair! It's not at all unusal that not one single person in the SaveMe masses questioned this.... "It's like our worst nightmare. Our country is now run by a set of animal-hating people, already straining at the leash, slavering with a lust to kill and and cause pain to animals." ...a fact so self evident that the only reason I didn't articulate it first was that I was grating field mice with Cameron at the time. |
| cacatua 08.06.2010 17:20 |
GratefulFan wrote: cacatua wrote: GratefulFan wrote: Brian put a stereo pair up on brianmay.com. Made me strangely happy (really). I miss those pictures a lot (really). Among other things, I think I associate them with a time when he was disturbing me a lot less. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Does it look to you as if he trimmed his hair before going to see "Hair?" Brian has his army now for support, validation, bootlicking...................... ;o) ============================== I didn't notice, but I thought it was a nice picture of him. And how novel that he should be snapped with young theatre women! And, painfully, it must also be said: Reactivate Fun Wit. That might be an anagram. And to your latter point...completely unfair! It's not at all unusal that not one single person in the SaveMe masses questioned this.... "It's like our worst nightmare. Our country is now run by a set of animal-hating people, already straining at the leash, slavering with a lust to kill and and cause pain to animals." ...a fact so self evident that the only reason I didn't articulate it first was that I was grating field mice with Cameron at the time. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hell, I'll bet he doesn't get this much unconditional love from Anita! ;o) "Grating field mice with Cameron?" - you will get more notice if you post these kind of remarks at Save Me, though they may think you are a troll...... :oD |
| cacatua 08.06.2010 17:30 |
Grateful Fan wrote: I don't mind spiders, or frogs, or mice or almost anything else, but I am terrified beyond reason over bats. They cause me to scream and hide and eventually be pried loose from whatever I'm clinging to by something much larger and taller than I. I don't want them to die or anything, mind you ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Well, bats have followed me around all of my life. :oD I am no longer as cavalier about handling them myself since taking rabies shots. And they aren't even good for several years...............................So perhaps hiding is for the best. |
| cacatua 08.06.2010 17:49 |
Grateful Fan wrote: I don't mind spiders, or frogs, or mice or almost anything else, but I am terrified beyond reason over bats. They cause me to scream and hide and eventually be pried loose from whatever I'm clinging to by something much larger and taller than I. I don't want them to die or anything, mind you. I'm afraid bats have followed me around for most of my life! :oD I'm no longer as cavalier about handling them since taking rabies shots though................... Perhaps it is best to hide! |
| freddiefan91 15.06.2010 04:17 |
I admire Brian's dedication to the cause and hope with a bit of help he can keep it up and not become frustrated with it |
| GratefulFan 15.06.2010 15:54 |
I think this is long term commitment for him for sure, though I think it's going to evolve quite a bit as he learns. It's not an exaggeration to say that I've been truly shocked at how much he's had to learn already. We expect things like marshalling the masses and navigating the press to be second nature after decades, but he has struggled mightily, particularly with the latter. The article in The Independent the other day minced not a single word. I'm sure he's not accustomed to that level of defiance. |