QueenZone discussion #1219610
I Can't Live With You
| qrock 18.02.2010 16:23 |
To me It is a great song but I'm surprised that the percussion was done on drum programming. Was the drumming too hard for roger. |
| mooghead 18.02.2010 16:38 |
Yes |
| Micrówave 18.02.2010 17:53 |
There's real drums in there, too. |
| BradJarre 18.02.2010 18:41 |
The drumming/percussions where done on the Korg m1 synth, It isnt until 1997 that Roger got the ICLWY beat his own, I believe... |
| Pierre 19.02.2010 04:06 |
Busy with The Cross maybe.... |
| mike hunt 19.02.2010 08:12 |
Nah, brian wasn't happy. I think only the opening of the song has a drum machine. the main song has real drums. I'm sure sebastion knows more and will chime in. |
| Back2TheLight 19.02.2010 19:12 |
I think it is mostly a drum machine, but there are some live drums in there as well, such as fills and the such. But the main of it is a drum machine. Roger did a WAY better job on the '97 retake, and it actually sounds like a real jam! |
| Micrówave 19.02.2010 20:59 |
A Korg M-1 is NOT a drum machine. I highly doubt that was used. But there WERE real drums in the original as well. It's hard to imitate a gated snare like that, especially in 1991. |
| cmsdrums 20.02.2010 06:44 |
The original definitely Roger's real drums in with the computerised drum track that brian put on top. I don't know, but I'd guess that Brian sampled Roger's take to create the electronic drums part as they mirror each other exactly in places. The 1997 retake has the same Roger real drum parts as the original but with the electronics taken off the track, thereby enabling us to hear what Roger is playing |
| BradJarre 20.02.2010 08:28 |
The Korg M-1 isnt a drumcomputer BUT. It HAS a Sequencer, And you can play drums on them and let them loop after 1-2-3-4 etc etc bar.. |
| Micrówave 20.02.2010 15:42 |
Yes but sequencing was not what it was back then. They didn't really tap on a few keys and do that, did they? Even more reason to dislike the Innuendo album. I always hated Days Of Our Lives because the congas sounded so weak. I have LP Potatos, I know what good congas are. I just thought Roger didn't know how to tune 'em. Now I'm thinking those were M-1 congas tapped in by an engineer. How depressing. |
| qrock 21.02.2010 12:36 |
I think Roger did find it difficult. From 1982 onwards most of the songs were either done on Electric Drums, Drum Machine or Drum programming. I think it's lazy for a talented drummer like him to do that, he is the drummer of the group and should not leave it to the other members to do it. |
| Sebastian 21.02.2010 13:54 |
qrock wrote: I think Roger did find it difficult. From 1982 onwards most of the songs were either done on Electric Drums, Drum Machine or Drum programming. I don't mean to 'pick on you', but the use of the word 'most' caught my attention. TBH, I'm not sure about whether it's right or wrong, so let's count: HOT SPACE: SP - Linn (mostly) Dancer - Linn (intro and verse), acoustic (choruses and solo) Back Chat - e-Drums + Linn (mostly) Body Language - Linn (mostly - compare it with live versions to notice the difference) Action - Linn + Simmons + acoustic (choruses mostly) PotF - Acoustic Life Is Real - Ditto Calling All Girls - Ditto Las Palabras - Ditto Cool Cat - Ditto Under Pressure - Ditto As you can see, the first half of the album's got mostly machines and e-drums with little to no acoustic ones. But six songs are done with acoustic drums. So: most songs done on e-drums, machines or programming? No. THE WORKS: Radio Ga Ga - Linn + Simmons, mostly. Tear It Up - Acoustic, mostly (at least) It's a Hard Life - Acoustic Man on the Prowl - Acoustic Machines - Linn + Simmons + acoustic Break Free - A bit of both, probably Keep Passing the Open Windows - Acoustic, mostly (at least) Hammer to Fall - Acoustic So, eight songs in the album have drums, off which six (75%) are synth-, computer- and machine-free. Most songs done on e-drums, machines or programming? No. A KIND OF MAGIC: One Vision - A bit of e- and programming, but mostly acoustic. A Kind of Magic - Ditto One Year of Love - Ditto PisCtP - A bit more programmed than played FWBF - Acoustic WwtLF - Mostly acoustic, but Rog didn't play them anyway... GtP - Acoustic DLYH - Acoustic PotU - Acoustic Nine songs with drums, one played by whoever was the percussionist in the orchestra, four (half) are totally (or mostly) acoustic. Most songs done on e-drums, machines or programming? No. THE MIRACLE: Party - Mostly programmed, indeed. Khashoggi's Ship - Acoustic. The Miracle - Acoustic. I Want It All - Acoustic, with a bit of programming in the middle (demo version surviving, I reckon). Invisible Man - Acoustic, surprisingly enough, but as Fred allegedly said, Rog's better than a machine. Breakthru - Acoustic, and very well played. Rain Must Fall - Some programming and some e-drums (which are actually played as well as acoustic so they need skills) Scandal - Totally acoustic My Baby Does Me - Mostly programmed Was It All Worth It - Totally acoustic Ten songs, seven of which (70%) are entirely or almost entirely acoustic. So: most songs done on e-drums, machines or programming? No. INNUENDO: Innuendo - Totally acoustic except perhaps for the orchestral bit (which hasn't got drums per se but percussion). Slightly Mad - A bit of both, but the pattern's indeed acoustic (most likely looped a la Bites the Dust). Headlong - Mostly acoustic, though some bits of Brian's programming survive. I Can't Live With You - Programmed on an Apple Mac and then run through the M1 drum section. Little to no acoustic. Don't Try So Hard - Totally acoustic. Ride the Wild Wind - The main part's acoustic, surprisingly enough. All God's People - A bit of both. I suspect Mike, and not Fred, programmed most of them. Days of Our Lives - Mostly programmed including the congas (courtesy of the producer, reportedly). Delilah - Mostly programmed. Hitman - Acoustic except for some bit in the middle which is programmed (probably a demo thing surviving again). Show Must Go On - Totally acoustic. Eleven songs with drums, seven of which (63.64%, rounded from a recurring decimal) are mostly or completely acoustic. So: most songs done on e-drums, machines or programming? No. MADE IN HEAVEN: Beautiful Day (including reprise) - Acoustic, mostly (at least) Made in Heaven - Ditto. Let Me Live - Acoustic. Mother Love - A bit of both, mostly programmed at the beginning. My Life Has Been Saved - Acoustic. I Was Born to Love You - Acoustic, and very well-played and underrated. Heaven for Everyone - A bit of both. Too Much Love - Acoustic, not his best moment IMO but not bad at all. You Don't Fool Me - The main pattern's acoustic, the shaker and other things are probably sampled and/or programmed.ç A Winter's Tale - A bit of both. So: ten compositions, off which seven are mostly acoustic. So: most songs done on e-drums, machines or programming? No. Conclusion: were most songs done on e-drums, machines or programming? For Hot Space - No. For The Works - No. For Magic - No. For Miracle - No. For Innuendo - No. For Made in Heaven - No. There you have it. |
| inu-liger 21.02.2010 15:14 |
Hate to break it to you Sebastian, but IWIA is all acoustic drums, however mostly processed through drum trigger pads (the toms, snare and bass drum). Have a listen to the 16-track multis from Guitar Hero (or whatever game it was on), especially the overhead mikes - you'll definitely notice then those fast bits are TOO humanly played to be programmed. If you can't hear the difference, then clearly you've no experience working with recording drums in the studio - and also lacking knowledge of various studio trickery like compressors, gaters, and samplers (which drum triggers come into play here). |
| inu-liger 21.02.2010 15:15 |
Also, I'm pretty damned sure the drums for IWBTLY (1997 Rocks 'Re-take') were completely redone live for that remake. The sound on those drums are more consistent with the NOBY drums than the 1989/1991 acoustic drum sounds. |
| Sebastian 21.02.2010 16:22 |
Inu: When possible, I'll hear to the Guitar Hero things you mention. But it doesn't change the big picture, which is: Were most songs done with e-drums, computer, synths, programming, midi et al? No. |
| inu-liger 22.02.2010 02:49 |
Sebastian wrote: Inu: When possible, I'll hear to the Guitar Hero things you mention. But it doesn't change the big picture, which is: Were most songs done with e-drums, computer, synths, programming, midi et al? No. Right. That much, I can't disagree with. |
| FriedChicken 22.02.2010 05:17 |
Why would Roger be able to drum stuff like Now I'm Here, Brighton Rock and Prophet's Song. Which have really odd drum stuff going on, and not being able to play I Can't Live With You? Knowing Queen it wasn't a matter of laziness but probably an esthetic reason. Also, in those days the Queen guys had some equipment at home and were able to record their own demo's. Some of the drum/percussion tracks made for their demo tracks were used later on the album cut. (Overdubbed by acoustic drums, if necessary) |
| Sebastian 22.02.2010 09:45 |
FriedChicken wrote: Why would Roger be able to drum stuff like Now I'm Here, Brighton Rock and Prophet's Song. Which have really odd drum stuff going on, and not being able to play I Can't Live With You? It's not always a matter of difficulty: Staying Power is a hell of a lot more difficult to sing than '39 (lead vocals, that is), and Freddie surely did a way better job on the former than Brian ever could if he tried (even if he hit the same notes); however, on the latter, Fred's voice is good, but not as good as the doctor's. There are also many people who can play guitar way better than Freddie, and who can play way more difficult things than CLTCL but when doing that song, for some reason, they don't quite cut the mustard (IMO, Brian amongst them). Same case here: AFAIK, Roger's attempts to reproduce what Brian had programmed didn't please the composer as they, allegedly, didn't have the correct 'feeling'. It's not a matter of 'if he could play Brighton Rock et al., then he could also play ICLWY', but a matter of 'every song is different and every case is different.' Remember that Einstein had problems putting on his socks (or something like that), which is way easier than coming up with relativity. |
| Winter Land Man 23.02.2010 20:53 |
inu-liger wrote: Also, I'm pretty damned sure the drums for IWBTLY (1997 Rocks 'Re-take') were completely redone live for that remake. The sound on those drums are more consistent with the NOBY drums than the 1989/1991 acoustic drum sounds. I didn't know I Was Born To Love You had a '97 rocks retake as well. ;-) hehehe |