| Gregsynth 14.01.2010 00:17 |
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| mike hunt 14.01.2010 04:17 |
Maybe he was on steroids.....these days when someone does something great they're accussed of taking the Juice.....baseball, boxing, football all improve their game from the Juice, why not musicians?......But seriously, You ask a good Question. i wondered how his live voice grew so strong in the crazy tour and the hot space gigs. He just peaked I guess. |
| Gregsynth 14.01.2010 16:20 |
Maybe he furthered his "self-training?" |
| steven 35638 14.01.2010 18:07 |
Nine years of discovering and developing new techniques led to his peak. Some of his techniques probably weren't safe since his voice gradually deteriorated into what we heard during The Works Tour. The man wasn't perfect. |
| Gregsynth 14.01.2010 19:30 |
Steven wrote: Nine years of discovering and developing new techniques led to his peak. Some of his techniques probably weren't safe since his voice gradually deteriorated into what we heard during The Works Tour. The man wasn't perfect.Nah, it was the smoking plus the abusive singing between 1984-1986 that deteriorated his voice during those tours.From the Crazy Tour-European Hot Space tour, Freddie was unstoppable! |
| steven 35638 14.01.2010 20:44 |
Gregsynth wrote:Steven wrote: Nine years of discovering and developing new techniques led to his peak. Some of his techniques probably weren't safe since his voice gradually deteriorated into what we heard during The Works Tour. The man wasn't perfect.Nah, it was the smoking plus the abusive singing between 1984-1986 that deteriorated his voice during those tours.From the Crazy Tour-European Hot Space tour, Freddie was unstoppable! Of course. The smoking and abusive singing during that period certainly contributed. But I would still argue that Freddie developed some improper techniques throughout the 70s and into the early 80s. He was certainly unstoppable though! |
| Gregsynth 14.01.2010 20:46 |
Well, I do know that Freddie rarely did his falsetto parts live--so he full-voiced the notes instead. Maybe that's the "improper technique" he did during 1979-1982? |
| steven 35638 14.01.2010 22:20 |
Gregsynth wrote: Well, I do know that Freddie rarely did his falsetto parts live--so he full-voiced the notes instead. Maybe that's the "improper technique" he did during 1979-1982? It might have caused some straining in his voice. |
| Gregsynth 14.01.2010 22:48 |
Probably true. But hey, he almost always hit them cleanly, so maybe those notes were actually easy for him! |
| steven 35638 14.01.2010 22:50 |
Or maybe he just made it look easy! |
| Gregsynth 14.01.2010 23:01 |
Haha! Sir GH knows quite a lot about Freddie's voice (I've seen his comments), maybe he could help us out! |
| The Real Wizard 15.01.2010 00:39 |
My vote goes for the smoking, full stop. My interpretation is that he spent the 70s learning how to better preserve his voice, which led to his consistent excellence from late 1979 through 1982. Two years of heavy smoking then ensued, and he could only last a few shows into a tour, greatly reducing the range of his chest voice. Just look at the difference between 5-9-85 and 5-15-85, for those who have heard the shows. The difference between even the 5-9 and 5-11 shows is pretty apparent. |
| steven 35638 15.01.2010 01:06 |
I have to agree with your interpretation. I'm sure you'll recall that he smoked because he apparently wanted to attain a huskier voice. It's a quality of his that doesn't sit well with me. It's also one of the many reasons why I think Mr. Bad Guy wasn't as successful as it probably should have been. |
| on my way up 15.01.2010 06:31 |
The way I see it: During the early years of Queen you can hear that Freddie's voice was a rough diamond. The sound of his voice was beautiful from day one, with a very rich tone, also his falsetto. When singing live he really tried hard to sing as good as possible but his voice hadn't developed yet, hadn't come to full fruition. He is known as one of the most flamboyant people in rock but the fact that he worked very very HARD to make his instrument AMAZINGLY BRILLIANT is something that is sadly overlooked by almost all. The fact he made this rough diamond into the ultimate diamond (I'm such a big fan, can't help it!) is for me something truly amazing. I think there are few singers with the same evolution. He wasn't that young when Queen started and had it's first big successes. Something else people tend to overlook. The major development of his voice took place when he was in his early 30's! What I basically want to say is: during the seventies he just got better and better. You can very well hear it when listening to the shows. His first really fantastic tour is A day at the races may-june 1977. NOTW was great. The reason Jazz was pretty weak (certainly compared to NOTW) was that his voice was getting really tired. So, as Bob says, he learned a lot from it. Mainly, how to keep the voice in shape. Then comes he Crazy tour. You guys can't believe how badly I'd like to hear more shows from that tour. He was at his most daring and that amazing voice was in the best shape it would ever be. he even had acces to the higher parts of his range, allowing him to deliver the entire set in a nearly perfect way. So, the reason he got better: training, training and training (and the fact mother nature gave him an incredible talent of course: THAT voice). I love the fact he was so dedicated to his job. He always went for it! Then, in the period 80-82 you can hear his voice getting husky(by 1982), the sound just changed. As bob says: it's the smoking!! All the things smoking does to a human voice he experienced: more time needed to recuperate, less range, change of timbre (which he liked),... All his best shows from the period 1984-1986 came after a period of rest or it was a show played among the first of the tour. Examples enough: Brussels 24/08/1984 and probably also the Dublin shows in 1984, Tokyo 08 and 09/05/1985 1986: Stockholm, Leidenx2, Cologne (2day break) and Budapest(4 day break before that one),... From time to time there was of course the odd exception (Berlin and Stuttgart'84). |
| on my way up 15.01.2010 09:20 |
Sir GH wrote: My vote goes for the smoking, full stop. My interpretation is that he spent the 70s learning how to better preserve his voice, which led to his consistent excellence from late 1979 through 1982. Two years of heavy smoking then ensued, and he could only last a few shows into a tour, greatly reducing the range of his chest voice. Just look at the difference between 5-9-85 and 5-15-85, for those who have heard the shows. The difference between even the 5-9 and 5-11 shows is pretty apparent. Both shows you mention are fantastic in their own right:-) Something like It's a hard life sounds so beautiful in Osaka... |
| Jazz 78 15.01.2010 09:34 |
I agree with a lot of what people are saying here. This is a good topic! As with the start of any major tour you're still warming up. The Dallas show at the start was just a warm up phase. I saw them two weeks later in Providence and they seemed pretty good to me except for some technical difficulties. But if you listen to Chicago, Montreal and Toronto his voice AND the band were absolutely on fire and well oiled at that point. By Japan in April 79 his voice was tired and worn out. For the Crazy Tour I believe the smaller scaled shows and venues and the fact that they were probably more rested maybe allowed Freddie's voice to sustain show after show. The tour was in the UK so there were no time zones to cross into, no long flights from city to city etc. |
| mike hunt 15.01.2010 10:26 |
on my way up wrote: The way I see it: During the early years of Queen you can hear that Freddie's voice was a rough diamond. The sound of his voice was beautiful from day one, with a very rich tone, also his falsetto. When singing live he really tried hard to sing as good as possible but his voice hadn't developed yet, hadn't come to full fruition. He is known as one of the most flamboyant people in rock but the fact that he worked very very HARD to make his instrument AMAZINGLY BRILLIANT is something that is sadly overlooked by almost all. The fact he made this rough diamond into the ultimate diamond (I'm such a big fan, can't help it!) is for me something truly amazing. I think there are few singers with the same evolution. He wasn't that young when Queen started and had it's first big successes. Something else people tend to overlook. The major development of his voice took place when he was in his early 30's! What I basically want to say is: during the seventies he just got better and better. You can very well hear it when listening to the shows. His first really fantastic tour is A day at the races may-june 1977. NOTW was great. The reason Jazz was pretty weak (certainly compared to NOTW) was that his voice was getting really tired. So, as Bob says, he learned a lot from it. Mainly, how to keep the voice in shape. Then comes he Crazy tour. You guys can't believe how badly I'd like to hear more shows from that tour. He was at his most daring and that amazing voice was in the best shape it would ever be. he even had acces to the higher parts of his range, allowing him to deliver the entire set in a nearly perfect way. So, the reason he got better: training, training and training (and the fact mother nature gave him an incredible talent of course: THAT voice). I love the fact he was so dedicated to his job. He always went for it! Then, in the period 80-82 you can hear his voice getting husky(by 1982), the sound just changed. As bob says: it's the smoking!! All the things smoking does to a human voice he experienced: more time needed to recuperate, less range, change of timbre (which he liked),... All his best shows from the period 1984-1986 came after a period of rest or it was a show played among the first of the tour. Examples enough: Brussels 24/08/1984 and probably also the Dublin shows in 1984, Tokyo 08 and 09/05/1985 1986: Stockholm, Leidenx2, Cologne (2day break) and Budapest(4 day break before that one),... From time to time there was of course the odd exception (Berlin and Stuttgart'84). Nice post, |
| Gregsynth 15.01.2010 15:23 |
I don't think Freddie's voice got husky until 1983. His voice in the early 80s sounded similar to the 1979 voice, but just a bit deeper. I think that was just age-related, but listen to his voice on the Works and the tour to support it, a much deeper yet RASPIER voice. Plus the yell-singing from 1984-1986 didn't help matters. |
| Yara 15.01.2010 20:23 |
Gregsynth wrote: What did Freddie do to improve his voice between the Jazz Tour and Crazy tour? Example: At the beginning of the Jazz tour (Dallas 1978), he sounds just like he did the previous tour/year. Now go to the Crazy Tour: Freddie's power, range, and confidence increased, and developed this AMAZING vibrato (example "Spread your Wings", Hammersmith). You're so absolutely right about his vibrato. The thing which struck me the most when I first listened to the Rock Montreal DVD was this bit of Play The Game from 2:10 to 2:15. Here: link I'm a fairly experienced singer, and I've met some good ones from all kinds of music styles, but I can say that *this* can of perfection, control and beauty is attained only by very, very few. As for Freddie's live vocals in general, the gigs I find him to be at his peak come most from the "News of The World" tour, but all the period ranging from late 1979 to 1982 is quite impressive, you're right. How he managed to achieve that level of excellence, well, that I'd like to know as well. : )))) |
| Gregsynth 16.01.2010 01:16 |
The NOTW era was great, and Freddie was great live--but he lacked the power and range he would later develop. Maybe Freddie wanted to "try a new method of live singing?" |
| Sebastian 16.01.2010 14:40 |
Smoking was the primary factor for his deterioration, but not the only one. Drinking, especially in large amounts, also damages the voice, same for coke. |
| Gregsynth 16.01.2010 15:16 |
That was the key factor that wrecked Elton John's voice, and he had to get surgery done. |
| Sebastian 16.01.2010 15:31 |
Speaking of voices: while Roger still sings great, he's certainly not even close to what he did in his prime. I know he quit smoking in '86, so it's probably an effect of him not taking good care of his voice while growing older, plus drinking and maybe drugs (I don't know if he ever took them or not). Brian, IMO, sings even better now than he did in his youth, and he's always been a good singer! |
| mike hunt 16.01.2010 16:10 |
Sebastian wrote: Speaking of voices: while Roger still sings great, he's certainly not even close to what he did in his prime. I know he quit smoking in '86, so it's probably an effect of him not taking good care of his voice while growing older, plus drinking and maybe drugs (I don't know if he ever took them or not). Brian, IMO, sings even better now than he did in his youth, and he's always been a good singer! I disagree 100%.....Brian does have a stronger voice now then he did back in the day, but on his solo albums to the present he oversings, and that makes him sound like a dying cat....meow!....Now listen to songs like "sail away sweet sister" and 39, doesn't oversing and sounds much better. |
| Gregsynth 16.01.2010 16:35 |
Roger wasn't a druggie. All he did was drink and smoke. Now, does Brian oversing in the classic sense (yell-singing), or is he oversinging like Mariah Carey (vocal gymnastics)? |
| April 16.01.2010 17:52 |
It is mostly smoking that ruins one's voice. And all these night parties. One has to rest well and to sleep well to have it strong. |
| Dusta 17.01.2010 01:42 |
As a former smoker, I certainly agree that smoking can absolutely ruin a voice. I can't imagine how he was even able to do his falsetto in the studio! |
| beautifulsoup 17.01.2010 02:15 |
Smoking is drying to the vocal cords. And not good for you, besides. You've gotta hydrate like crazy if you're going to smoke. And I don't mean alcohol, because that also is a "drying" agent. And sorry to put in my two cents (or pence) about Freddie's vocal type, but a baritone trying to push up to tenor will do just that; push. Registration is wacked, and you end up shouting. Even if you're not in the baritone camp regarding Freddie's voice, I will say that his actual singing technique could have been improved upon. Nodes are basically callouses on the vocal cords. Often they form from misuse (excessive coughing) or incorrect singing technique. Singing as much as Freddie did; it's just a lot of singing! Heck - opera singers sing full operas and have a day or two off in between. So, smoking, drugs, tired, whatever else. We know that Freddie did not get surgery to remove the nodes. So, there you go - the pressure on the cords continues, the nodes are still there, and they will not get better. Even if he had opted for surgery, he would have had to make sure to take care of himself and learn a bit about technique. If one doesn't re-think their singing and vocal health, and learn good habits after surgery, one will get nodes all over again. (Sorry, I talked way too much. And now I'm done). JMO, YMMV, etc. |
| pittrek 17.01.2010 04:12 |
Sebastian wrote: Speaking of voices: while Roger still sings great, he's certainly not even close to what he did in his prime. I know he quit smoking in '86, so it's probably an effect of him not taking good care of his voice while growing older, plus drinking and maybe drugs (I don't know if he ever took them or not). Brian, IMO, sings even better now than he did in his youth, and he's always been a good singer! Roger was the only one who admitted to smoke marijuana. |
| Gregsynth 17.01.2010 05:03 |
pittrek wrote:It's fun to smoke marijuana! LMFAO! In all seriousness though, Freddie got nodules from over-touring back in late 1974/early 1975. The smoking in the 80s, plus the "macho Freddie" vocal style live, and the yell singing during the mid 80s certainly didn't help matters.Sebastian wrote: Speaking of voices: while Roger still sings great, he's certainly not even close to what he did in his prime. I know he quit smoking in '86, so it's probably an effect of him not taking good care of his voice while growing older, plus drinking and maybe drugs (I don't know if he ever took them or not). Brian, IMO, sings even better now than he did in his youth, and he's always been a good singer!Roger was the only one who admitted to smoke marijuana. |
| 4 x Vision 19.01.2010 08:24 |
It's pretty self explanatory that he'd learn from his mistakes from earlier years and his voice would have aged just like most male's at his age around 1978. My voice certainly got better the older I got (I'm 31), but I've learned from experience the way to sing a song a certain way (for me ) and I know my limits (and how to hide them). Now think of Freddie with his naturally phenomenal voice. His career would have allowed him to learn far quicker the techniques which he prefered, which when added to his natural voice... UNBELIEVABLE!!! The smoking then contributed massively... that's when rest, proximity of gigs etc would defintely contribute to how good he sounded. Nice thread. |
| 4 x Vision 19.01.2010 08:30 |
Again, another thing not mention would have been Freddie's coke use. Cocaine really messes up the sinuses if overdone. It's relatively obvious Freddie had quite a fondness of the stuff in the early to mid 80s. |
| Gregsynth 19.01.2010 11:15 |
Not denying that Freddie indulged in cocaine for a time, but I don't think that did anything to his voice. He was a recreational user (not a hardcore abuser like Elton John), and kept the partying off the stage until after the gig (he wasn't wasted on stage). Elton John completly fucked his voice up: By using alcohol, marijuana, and mostly cocaine. He would be so wasted, that he would just oversing/trash his voice live, which in turn--caused nodules to develop. |
| Yara 19.01.2010 14:09 |
beautifulsoup wrote: Smoking is drying to the vocal cords. And not good for you, besides. You've gotta hydrate like crazy if you're going to smoke. And I don't mean alcohol, because that also is a "drying" agent. And sorry to put in my two cents (or pence) about Freddie's vocal type, but a baritone trying to push up to tenor will do just that; push. Registration is wacked, and you end up shouting. Even if you're not in the baritone camp regarding Freddie's voice, I will say that his actual singing technique could have been improved upon. Nodes are basically callouses on the vocal cords. Often they form from misuse (excessive coughing) or incorrect singing technique. Singing as much as Freddie did; it's just a lot of singing! Heck - opera singers sing full operas and have a day or two off in between. So, smoking, drugs, tired, whatever else. We know that Freddie did not get surgery to remove the nodes. So, there you go - the pressure on the cords continues, the nodes are still there, and they will not get better. Even if he had opted for surgery, he would have had to make sure to take care of himself and learn a bit about technique. If one doesn't re-think their singing and vocal health, and learn good habits after surgery, one will get nodes all over again. (Sorry, I talked way too much. And now I'm done). JMO, YMMV, etc. Absolutely perfect post. It covers all grounds and, despite your worry about being prolix, quite succintly at that. Congrats. |
| Gregsynth 19.01.2010 14:28 |
Double post. |
| Gregsynth 19.02.2010 19:36 |
Want to restart this topic? LOL |
| Gregsynth 02.09.2010 01:15 |
I was listening to Saarbrucken 1979, and I can hear some "Crazy Freddie" starting to take shape! |
| cmsdrums 02.09.2010 06:56 |
mike hunt wrote: I disagree 100%.....Brian does have a stronger voice now then he did back in the day, but on his solo albums to the present he oversings, and that makes him sound like a dying cat....meow!....Now listen to songs like "sail away sweet sister" and 39, doesn't oversing and sounds much better. I totally agree with this post - Brian isn't a lead vocalist that can carry a whole album, and although he puts his heart and soul into trying to deliver emotion, he doesn't really do it for me (unlike the example of Sail Away Sweet Sister which is a fantastic vocal delivered within his limits). Roger on the other hand can tackle different types of delivery such rasping lead vocals, or subtely delivered lower register stuff (such as the verses of 'Pressure On') and still sound good to me. Altjough veering away from the topic of Freddie's live vocal improvements, I'm often taken with how he did the same thing in the studio (before regressing again from The Works). The debut album shows his voice at it's weakest, with less power and some uncontrollable vibrato (Roger admits that he did sound like a sheep at times!). This improved across Queen II, and again was even better on SHA and ANATO. The biggest leap for me however was on ADATR - full power (White Man), breathy, perfectly controlled delivery (You Take My Breath Away, Millionaire's Waltz), and everything ranging in between, with no 'warbling', but also still smooth and without the straining of later years. I'm guessing picking up tips and hints along the way, alongside extensive gigging to find out what suited him and worked (together with the guys being more attuned to writing for his voice), really helped Freddie to perfect his vocals by ADATR. |
| Gregsynth 02.09.2010 09:56 |
Plus, look at the difference between 10 years: 1976 = Smooth, gentle, sweet 1986 = Harsh, Powerful, Strong |
| Yara 02.09.2010 16:35 |
I think Freddie would like to sing as well as during the Crazy Tour for the rest of his career, only having to worry about changing his approach to the songs here and there, something which the shape of his voice would make way easier. It does seem to me, though, that at least during the time range spanning The Works and The Magic tours, as well as the period between late 1978 and most of 1979, he was physically unable to sing comfortably - he'd be able to only after he had rested enough, or even in the studio, but not throughout the tour - his voice would start to crumble by the third or fourth concerts, and he'd have to make up for his poorer condition either by changing the lines or singing more forcefully. A wonderful and extraordinarily gifted singer anyway, not only for his range - mine is 2 octaves and I think it is too much already! - but also for his creativity, musicality and control of tone quality and dynamic range. The final section of SBTL from Rock Montreal ("Loooooooooooove...) has him gradually distancing himself from, and then aproaching, the mic in order to give depth to the verse while changing his tone into a gorgeous descending vibrato. |
| Gregsynth 02.09.2010 16:45 |
Here's another observation I found, while listening to The Works Tour and Magic Tour gigs. Freddie was far better on the Magic Tour! |
| Bad Seed 03.09.2010 11:52 |
Do you know I disagree. A year or two ago I would have agreed but the more I listen to the Magic tour the more I think it was his worst tour of all. Alot of the songs he struggles with on the Works were dropped for the Magic tour. Take STL, pretty bad for alot of the Works show's, but I cant imagine any Magic tour show where he would have put in a performance even as good as the first night in Rio. Could you imagine a Magic tour version of that! I know he hit the odd C5 on the Magic tour but even in those shows he struggles and bark's his way through almost everything. When he was good on the Works he was very good (even sounding '82ish at times), when he was bad it was dreadful. To me, he was pretty dreadful throughout the Magic tour. And lets not forget that the Works was a significantly longer and more demanding tour. |
| Planetgurl 03.09.2010 12:43 |
Bad Seed wrote: Do you know I disagree. A year or two ago I would have agreed but the more I listen to the Magic tour the more I think it was his worst tour of all. Alot of the songs he struggles with on the Works were dropped for the Magic tour. Take STL, pretty bad for alot of the Works show's, but I cant imagine any Magic tour show where he would have put in a performance even as good as the first night in Rio. Could you imagine a Magic tour version of that! I know he hit the odd C5 on the Magic tour but even in those shows he struggles and bark's his way through almost everything. When he was good on the Works he was very good (even sounding '82ish at times), when he was bad it was dreadful. To me, he was pretty dreadful throughout the Magic tour. And lets not forget that the Works was a significantly longer and more demanding tour. Another factor possibly to affect his voice on this tour would perhaps be the weather in Europe - the weather was extremely hot at times and for some dates that I remember on the tour. In particular Zurich (two shows together) was very hot and an indoor stadium. No air conditioning..... :-( |
| tsskiller 03.09.2010 14:49 |
I think that I've found the bridge between his "old" voice and his "new" voice (as in his "Prime Live" voice)...it's not Saarbrucken. It's Sapporo (5-5-1979). I've posted a video syncing the Killer Queen from the first Sapporo night to the official 4-25 footage. On this version, he NAILS the song in a lot of spots, with phrasing at times BETTER than the Crazy and Game tours (I'm not kidding, take a look for yourself). link This version is easily the best on this tour (he doesn't crack and he's very aggressive with using all of his range). If you listen closely, he's starting to develop his trademark vibrato on this gig. Another note: He sounds horrible on this song on the gig before this (Yamaguchi 5-2) and he doesn't sound nearly as good on the next night. |
| Gregsynth 03.09.2010 23:29 |
Bad Seed wrote: Do you know I disagree. A year or two ago I would have agreed but the more I listen to the Magic tour the more I think it was his worst tour of all. Alot of the songs he struggles with on the Works were dropped for the Magic tour. Take STL, pretty bad for alot of the Works show's, but I cant imagine any Magic tour show where he would have put in a performance even as good as the first night in Rio. Could you imagine a Magic tour version of that! I know he hit the odd C5 on the Magic tour but even in those shows he struggles and bark's his way through almost everything. When he was good on the Works he was very good (even sounding '82ish at times), when he was bad it was dreadful. To me, he was pretty dreadful throughout the Magic tour. And lets not forget that the Works was a significantly longer and more demanding tour. That's not true at all. Magic tour had FAR better vocals--Here's some examples: 1. Listen to Tear It Up: On The Magic Tour, Freddie gets every A4 in almost every show, while on the Works Tour, there's only like 3 shows when he does that. 2. For every "good" gig for Freddie on the Works Tour, I can find 3 Magic gigs that are good. 3. Freddie actually sings the HIGH B4s on AOBTD during the 1986 tour. 4. No, doesn't STRUGGLE or BARK on every Magic Tour show 5. Freddie's voice started weakening 7 shows into the Magic Tour, while on the Works Tour his voice was completely shot by the 7th show. 6. Freddie actually sings Bo Rhap a million times better on the Magic Tour than the Works Tour If anything was better on the Works Tour, it was I Want To Break Free, and the Seven Seas Of Rhye. Listen to some of those Early shows on the Magic Tour, then get back to me on Freddie sounding "dreadful." |
| Bad Seed 04.09.2010 04:26 |
To my knowledge Greg, I have listened to every Magic tour show available. I actually have the Stockholm gig (which I've owned for well over ten years) in my car at the moment. I'm just emphasising the point because you appear to be hinting that I'm unaware of these shows, and that you have more authority to be talking on this subject. I don't like Freddies voice on the tour, just as I dont like his voice on the Works tour. In my opinion though, on some of the Works shows he hits notes cleaner and with more power than anything in the Magic tour. And I will say again that in my opinion he shouts and barks through most songs in most shows. |
| Gregsynth 04.09.2010 09:25 |
I have every single bootleg from The Works Tour (1984 and 1985), and the Magic Tour, and I can conclude that he in fact does sing better at the Magic Tour (overall). Freddie focused more on power and sustain during the Magic Tour (rather than try to sing "lyrically" like what he did on the 1984/1985--which wasted his voice quicker). Some people love the mid-80s vocal style (myself), some don't (you). The Works Tour did have clearer vocals, up until the 1st Birmingham gig, then his voice started getting weaker and weaker. From there on, 1984 was hit-and-miss. 1st Rio gig was amazing (that's what he SHOULD'VE sounded like on the whole tour), and the first two Japan gigs are probably Freddie's best overall. You want to talk about Freddie barking/shouting? Listen to those Milan 1984 gigs! For the Magic Tour, Freddie changed his vocal style up (chesty belting). Freddie does scream/shout more on the Magic Tour, but I don't mind it, because at least he REACHES THE NOTES. The Works Tour was Freddie's WORST 80s tour for range and consistency. This was greatly improved during the Magic Tour (he lasted longer, and still had the same raw power--even on weaker gigs). Plus, Freddie was far LAZIER on the Works Tour (I believe Yara and On My Way Up make excellent points about that): Freddie would just "speak-sing" lines or when his voice was in great shape, he would not go for higher notes, or be uncreative with his note choices. Please do not put words in my mouth (claiming that I have more authority/you haven't listened to gigs). You ignored my list of observations, then made the straw-man argument about me having "more authority." I merely have listened to every gig from this era and made my observations. I was one of the people who did thought that Freddie's worst vocal tour was The Magic Tour (because I listened to Wembley, only). Then someone showed me some of those early gigs (Stockholm/Leiden/Brussels), and I was astounded! Freddie's WORST vocal tour was the Jazz Tour, followed by The Works Tour. |
| on my way up 04.09.2010 11:25 |
I prefer the Magic Tour over the Works tour. Freddie performed many amazing shows during the Magic Tour: - Stockholm 06/07/1986 --> check out his singing in One vision, Tie Your mother down, we are the champions, now I'm here etc. Some of his most gutsy renditions of songs were performed at this show - leiden 11/06/86 --> incredible to hear how freddie pushes his voice to its limits all night, he's simply on fire - leiden 12/06/86, Paris 14/06/86 and Brussels 17/06/86 AND Leiden 19/06/1986 --> Freddie still sounds very fresh and does amazing things with his voice, sounding very powerful - from Mannheim onwards he takes less risks, he's weak at zurich 02/07/1986 but then again, he performed a few shows that are about that weak during the works tour (Vienna second night, London 07/09/84 (he clearly had a party on the 5th;-) - during the Magic tour his voice got better again, allowing him to sing wonderfully in Cologne (check out his creativity in AOBTD), Vienna, BUDAPEST,... I adore Knebworth too altuogh he got a bit tired by the end of the show - by the way, I think the first Wembley night is an amazing show too! I'd go as far as to say that the second Wembley night is one of the weakest of the tour --> Freddie not great, Brian fucking up a couple of times The Works tour has the following wonderful shows from Freddie: - Brussels opening night (truly wonderful,!!) - Dublin (shitty recording, which is a pity) - Stuttgart (one of my personal favourites) - Sun City (Freddie so creative, what an incredibly talented man!) - Tokyo 08/05 and 09/05 ---> wow |
| Bad Seed 04.09.2010 11:51 |
Gregsynth wrote: Please do not put words in my mouth (claiming that I have more authority/you haven't listened to gigs). You ignored my list of observations, then made the straw-man argument about me having "more authority." I merely have listened to every gig from this era and made my observations. I was one of the people who did thought that Freddie's worst vocal tour was The Magic Tour (because I listened to Wembley, only). Then someone showed me some of those early gigs (Stockholm/Leiden/Brussels), and I was astounded! I did not put words into your mouth. I was simply trying to say that 'Go listen to the early Magic shows, then get back to me...' sounded very much like you were implying that I hadn't listened to those shows, and I was making an argument without listening to the evidence. I could say please dont put words into my mouth (claiming that I ignored your list). I did not ignore your list, I simply didn't make comment on it. |
| on my way up 04.09.2010 12:30 |
Of course, like all fans I'd like to hear more Crazy tour recordings. Those recordings do exist...:-) let's hope we'll be able to enjoy (at least some of them) one day (soon:-) |
| on my way up 04.09.2010 12:33 |
Gregsynth wrote: The NOTW era was great, and Freddie was great live--but he lacked the power and range he would later develop. Maybe Freddie wanted to "try a new method of live singing?" I'm such a Queen maniac I like all those different "Freddie voices". I listened to Rotterdam '77 yesterday --> wow, what a voice! |
| Gregsynth 04.09.2010 13:11 |
Bad Seed wrote: Gregsynth wrote: Please do not put words in my mouth (claiming that I have more authority/you haven't listened to gigs). You ignored my list of observations, then made the straw-man argument about me having "more authority." I merely have listened to every gig from this era and made my observations. I was one of the people who did thought that Freddie's worst vocal tour was The Magic Tour (because I listened to Wembley, only). Then someone showed me some of those early gigs (Stockholm/Leiden/Brussels), and I was astounded! I did not put words into your mouth. I was simply trying to say that 'Go listen to the early Magic shows, then get back to me...' sounded very much like you were implying that I hadn't listened to those shows, and I was making an argument without listening to the evidence. I could say please dont put words into my mouth (claiming that I ignored your list). I did not ignore your list, I simply didn't make comment on it. ============== You did ignore the list, though. Not commenting on the observations is in fact ignoring it. You said he sounded "dreadful" on the Magic Tour (which isn't true for the most part--unless you aren't a fan of Freddie's chesty mid-80s voice). I may have wrote my intended sentence wrong, but my point is this: Why would you say the Magic Tour's vocals were "dreadful," when there's evidence of the Works Tour being WORSE, yet you only talk about the Magic Tour? This version of Rhapsody is leaps and bounds above any of the Works Tour Versions! |
| formulaone+queenmad 04.09.2010 13:39 |
Must agree with Greg about Magic being so much better than Works! Even though I love the Works tour setlist as it has all my favourite songs, Freddie is only in good shape for about 4 gigs on the European leg whereas the Magic tour he's in bad shape for only 2/3 gigs Works Tour Best Gigs Brussels Dublin Birmingham 1st night Stuttgart Rio 1st night Japan first 2 nights Magic Tour Best Gigs Stockholm Leiden (all 3 nights) Paris Brussels Mannheim Berlin Wembley 1st night Manchester Cologne Vienna (both nights) Budapest Frejus Barcelona Knebworth It's so much easier to name good Magic gigs than Works tour ones (even though I believe some of 9-5 London is great unlike Greg and others haha!) But we should all agree that this is Freddie at his absolute best ;) link |
| The Real Wizard 05.09.2010 13:12 |
tsskiller wrote:
I think that I've found the bridge between his "old" voice and his "new" voice (as in his "Prime Live" voice)...it's not Saarbrucken. It's Sapporo (5-5-1979). I've posted a video syncing the Killer Queen from the first Sapporo night to the official 4-25 footage. On this version, he NAILS the song in a lot of spots, with phrasing at times BETTER than the Crazy and Game tours (I'm not kidding, take a look for yourself)." I think you're being a bit too generous, but you're certainly right that this is one of Freddie's best Live Killers shows, along with the Tokyo and Osaka shows (14th, 19th, 20th). I think the transition Freddie went through was after the Japanese tour, as he had two months to reflect on the ups and downs of his voice over the last 6 months. Starting in Saarbrucken, he'd enter his golden period, peaking in 1982. As far as I'm concerned, 1982 was the year where he perfectly balanced the voice, improvisational abilities, and showmanship. As for the Works vs Magic tour discussion, formulaone's analysis is right on the money. I'd just add Sun City to the list, as the tape we've heard is probably Freddie's best 1984 performance. |
| Gregsynth 05.09.2010 13:43 |
I have read comments on the internet--saying that 1981 was Freddie's best year as a live vocalist! With the exception of a couple of those weaker Japan 1981 gigs, he was almost invincible: He hit the WATC C5 in EVERY mexican gig! The only criticism I have of the "Prime Live" era, was that unlike the earlier eras, Freddie would oversing Killer Queen (and a few other songs) like CRAZY (AKA Hartford 1980)! Here's my analysis: Crazy Tour 1979: Little-to-no oversinging, excellent range, good power 1980: Too Much oversinging, good range, great power 1981: Little oversinging, excellent range, great power Euro 1982: Generally little oversinging (except some Bohemian Rhapsody's were a bit OTT), Good range, excellent power |
| jamster1111 06.09.2010 00:59 |
I would actually have to surprisingly disagree with SirGH's comment. I think he was at the peak of his voice in 1981 since he had both part of the sweetness and the power and sustain. I think he sang the smoothest in the crazy tour though. Also I would have to say i think Stuggart is the best 1984 works performance and ROR first night would be the best 1985 one (minus live aid). |
| Gregsynth 06.09.2010 01:12 |
The Crazy Tour was Freddie's last tour with his "pure" (non-smoking) voice. So he was able to sing the songs without sounding "harsh," or using too much chest power. |
| The Real Wizard 06.09.2010 10:41 |
jamster1111 wrote:
I would actually have to surprisingly disagree with SirGH's comment. I think he was at the peak of his voice in 1981 since he had both part of the sweetness and the power and sustain.I meant that Freddie as a whole peaked in 1982. I'll definitely agree that his voice peaked in 1981. |
| Gregsynth 06.09.2010 12:09 |
I always wondered what a 1981 Freddie would sound like live--doing the Hot Space stuff! |
| Gregsynth 07.09.2010 20:05 |
After reviewing some of the December 1980 versions of Killer Queen, I can safely back up Sapporo's Killer Queen being a much better version. |
| Gregsynth 08.09.2010 00:36 |
link This video was put together by a friend: This is exactly how NOT to sing Killer Queen--and why Japan 1979 had better versions! |
| Queenman!! 08.09.2010 03:37 |
Freddie was advised after Rio by his GP (doctor) not to perform anymore due too his HIV relative things. So he kind of forbidden the MAGIC tour I read somewehere in Phoebe's book that by 1985 a kind of strange 'mushroom' shaped thing grew in the back of his mouth that affected his singing quality dramaticly. It's the book by author Lesley-Ann Jones. |
| Gregsynth 08.09.2010 10:44 |
That sounds like his Lymph nodes were swollen! |
| Gregsynth 29.03.2011 15:04 |
Bad Seed wrote: Do you know I disagree. A year or two ago I would have agreed but the more I listen to the Magic tour the more I think it was his worst tour of all. Alot of the songs he struggles with on the Works were dropped for the Magic tour. Take STL, pretty bad for alot of the Works show's, but I cant imagine any Magic tour show where he would have put in a performance even as good as the first night in Rio. Could you imagine a Magic tour version of that! I know he hit the odd C5 on the Magic tour but even in those shows he struggles and bark's his way through almost everything. When he was good on the Works he was very good (even sounding '82ish at times), when he was bad it was dreadful. To me, he was pretty dreadful throughout the Magic tour. And lets not forget that the Works was a significantly longer and more demanding tour. ======================== For some reason I don't remember reading this comment, but I'll reply: The early Magic gigs sing circles around most of the Works Tour stuff: While I can agree on the struggling/barking, that's just for most of the later half of the dates. Gigs like Stockholm, Leiden and Brussels have Freddie in brilliant voice, and most of the songs that still remained from the Works Tour was better. Tear It up was TERRIBLE on the Works Tour about 70% of the time (Freddie cracks, squeals, hits wrong notes, etc), while he nails the song on most Magic Tour gigs. Tie Your Mother down kicked ass on the Magic Tour (Freddie actually hits the notes instead of modulating down to the 3rd octave), The 1986 versions of Bo Rhap piss on the 1984-1985 versions (not counting Live Aid), because he actually sang the 1st verse right--and didn't hit random notes in the rock section. Another One Bites The Dust sucked on the Works Tour (the electronic drums, Freddie couldn't hit the notes to save his life, ete), while he totally owns the song on the Magic Tour (even on his weaker gigs). I Want To Break Free, Hammer To Fall, and Seven Seas Of Rhye were better (overall), on the Works Tour. However, most of the "worst" versions of these songs were from that tour: Stay away from 9/4, 9/5, 9/7, 9/8, 9/10, 9/21, 9/22, and 9/29. Those gigs are honestly the worst I've EVER heard Freddie sing in the 80s. As for the Magic Tour, there's only a few "bad" gigs for Freddie (Zurich, Marbella, etc), but his worst on the 1986 tour, isn't as bad as his worst 1984-1985 gigs. Cheers! -Gregsynthbootlegs |
| maxpower 30.03.2011 04:27 |
My pennies worth this is from Japan 1985 link I don't know which date but it is Tokyo as that's where the venue is so either 08/09/11 of May Budapest 86 link After listening to both (& on the Japan gig I went up to Now I'm Here) I can honestly say Freddie sounded far better in 1986 |
| Soundfreak 30.03.2011 05:18 |
You should never forget, that the concerts were also about the show. And a show with the size of the Magic Tour stage demands a lot more of energy for running around than maybe a club concert. Also the hearing is different cause of the wide acoustics. All this influences the vocal performance. Just compare to the Rolling Stones how Jagger still sang on smaller stages and how he "spoke" his lyrics when he ran all over the big stadium stages. Also never forget that people sometimes simply have a cold. Which is a nightmare for every singer. It costs a fortune to cancel a show, so bands try to avoid this and perform even when they are pretty sick. And voice problems from a cold or a flu can last for weeks and make a whole leg of a tour sound terrible. |
| Gregsynth 30.03.2011 12:36 |
maxpower wrote: My pennies worth this is from Japan 1985 link I don't know which date but it is Tokyo as that's where the venue is so either 08/09/11 of May Budapest 86 link After listening to both (& on the Japan gig I went up to Now I'm Here) I can honestly say Freddie sounded far better in 1986 ======= That Japan concert is the 5/11/1985 concert. Freddie was stronger on 5/8 and 5/9! |
| ActionThisDay 31.03.2011 09:14 |
I can't add anything on here as folks have said it all, but it's just a shame that the Set List from 'The Works' Tour wasn't swapped for the 'Magic' Tour Set List as you would have a great sounding (in most parts) Freddie with the best Set List I think they ever did - always thought the extended acoustic set was fun to them if a tad boring to us. |
| Gregsynth 31.03.2011 10:27 |
VS This is an example of what I'm talking about! |
| maxpower 31.03.2011 14:04 |
& the point is I'm confused haha |
| Gregsynth 31.03.2011 16:25 |
maxpower wrote: & the point is I'm confused haha ========= The point is that 1986 Freddie, sings circles around 1984 Freddie! :) |