QueenZone discussion #1195631

tay120 wrote: I feel like music today really sucks. Among other things, I never hear music that really rocks anymore. Even though I actually kind of liked rap music back in the 1990s (Tupac is one of my favorites), rap music today does not seem very original anymore. I am also really sick of teenage act like Jonas Brothers, Miley Cyrus and Taylor Swift. I might have liked this kind of tuff when I was 10 or so. Beyond that age, I would expect that young people would mature in terms of musical taste. I guess not. So I am wondering about what is wrong with young people today. Why don't they want to hear sophisticated rock music anymore? Why is music today so weak and sickly?

Mr Mercury wrote:

  tay120 wrote: I feel like music today really sucks. Among other things, I never hear music that really rocks anymore. Even though I actually kind of liked rap music back in the 1990s (Tupac is one of my favorites), rap music today does not seem very original anymore. I am also really sick of teenage act like Jonas Brothers, Miley Cyrus and Taylor Swift. I might have liked this kind of tuff when I was 10 or so. Beyond that age, I would expect that young people would mature in terms of musical taste. I guess not. So I am wondering about what is wrong with young people today. Why don't they want to hear sophisticated rock music anymore? Why is music today so weak and sickly?

The problem is, the young people of today are doing exactly the same thing that you and I probably did to the older generations of our time. They are not listening to our bands because they want their own identity musically. They will only listen to music that is "theirs". I did the same with my dad all those years ago. He played stuff by Glen Miller, Bing Crosby, Nat King Cole and the like to try and get me interested. I was (and still am) into bands Like Queen, Free, Status Quo, Mott The Hoople at the time and didnt want to know about all that old stuff. These days I have a huge admiration for my old mans style of music. This will probably happen with this generation as well. Teenage acts will always exist like they have since pop music began. In the 50's there was Elvis and Cliff and the likes. In the 60's there was The Beatles and the Stones. In the 70's there was some real cheesy acts like Bay City Rollers, Marmalade, David Cassidy, the Osmonds. There was the whole Stock, Aitken and Waterman output in the 80's. They were responsible for Kylie, Sonia, Bananarama, Jason Donovan, Rick Astley, et al. I wont bother with the 90's since by now I think you will have the point of what I am saying here. Basically, its record company fodder that sells.

tay120 wrote: I feel like music today really sucks. Among other things, I never hear music that really rocks anymore. Even though I actually kind of liked rap music back in the 1990s (Tupac is one of my favorites), rap music today does not seem very original anymore. I am also really sick of teenage act like Jonas Brothers, Miley Cyrus and Taylor Swift. I might have liked this kind of tuff when I was 10 or so. Beyond that age, I would expect that young people would mature in terms of musical taste. I guess not. So I am wondering about what is wrong with young people today. Why don't they want to hear sophisticated rock music anymore? Why is music today so weak and sickly?

Micrówave wrote: I would have agreed with you on the U2 thing ten years ago. But looking back, War, Joshua Tree, and parts of Achtung Baby are indeed top notch, but the collective works surrounding them doesn't compare to the bands mentioned.

But grunge wasn't really something that was going to last.  I mean, how much heroin and songs in D can you do?

sexmachine wrote: turn that fuckin mtv off.

  Sir GH wrote: While there has always been crap, how many artists can we name that have come out in the last 30 years that will be mentioned 50 years from now in the same sentence as the Beatles, Stones, Zeppelin, Queen, Floyd, etc.? 1. U2

Lookin' Divine In Good Ol' '89 wrote: WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tay120 wrote: I feel like music today really sucks. Among other things, I never hear music that really rocks anymore. Even though I actually kind of liked rap music back in the 1990s (Tupac is one of my favorites), rap music today does not seem very original anymore. I am also really sick of teenage act like Jonas Brothers, Miley Cyrus and Taylor Swift. I might have liked this kind of tuff when I was 10 or so. Beyond that age, I would expect that young people would mature in terms of musical taste. I guess not. So I am wondering about what is wrong with young people today. Why don't they want to hear sophisticated rock music anymore? Why is music today so weak and sickly?

rodge-fred-bri-deaky wrote:

  tay120 wrote: I feel like music today really sucks. Among other things, I never hear music that really rocks anymore. Even though I actually kind of liked rap music back in the 1990s (Tupac is one of my favorites), rap music today does not seem very original anymore. I am also really sick of teenage act like Jonas Brothers, Miley Cyrus and Taylor Swift. I might have liked this kind of tuff when I was 10 or so. Beyond that age, I would expect that young people would mature in terms of musical taste. I guess not. So I am wondering about what is wrong with young people today. Why don't they want to hear sophisticated rock music anymore? Why is music today so weak and sickly?

Hey hey hey! Not all young people are mad. Some of us have our senses. Actually you'll find a hell of a lot of Queen fans under 15 if you read the comments on youtube. I'm 14 and I LOVE queen. It's all I listen to. But you do have a point with how crap music is today. I fell like I'm living in WWRY. It's come a few centuries early. What we all need is a good dose of Queen to wake us up to the musc industry that's smothering us, telling us what we should listen to and what's really uncool. Basically anything more than a week old. It's shocking the amount of young people who have been brainwashed by this. But still, some of us soldier on. In my class of 19, 4 are still musically sane. May we always rock on!

QueenPaulo wrote:

  rodge-fred-bri-deaky wrote:  

      tay120 wrote:   I feel like music today really sucks. Among other things, I never hear music that really rocks anymore. Even though I actually kind of liked rap music back in the 1990s (Tupac is one of my favorites), rap music today does not seem very original anymore. I am also really sick of teenage act like Jonas Brothers, Miley Cyrus and Taylor Swift. I might have liked this kind of tuff when I was 10 or so. Beyond that age, I would expect that young people would mature in terms of musical taste. I guess not. So I am wondering about what is wrong with young people today. Why don't they want to hear sophisticated rock music anymore? Why is music today so weak and sickly?  

Hey hey hey! Not all young people are mad. Some of us have our senses. Actually you'll find a hell of a lot of Queen fans under 15 if you read the comments on youtube. I'm 14 and I LOVE queen. It's all I listen to. But you do have a point with how crap music is today. I fell like I'm living in WWRY. It's come a few centuries early. What we all need is a good dose of Queen to wake us up to the musc industry that's smothering us, telling us what we should listen to and what's really uncool. Basically anything more than a week old. It's shocking the amount of young people who have been brainwashed by this. But still, some of us soldier on. In my class of 19, 4 are still musically sane. May we always rock on!

i'm 14 too... it's not old people who like Queen,,, Queen don't have age to listen!!!!

Zebonka12 wrote: In an attempt to save this thread I am putting it onto the 3rd page to get away from that fool with the !!!!!'s.

dragon-fly wrote: But they seem to be limited in possibilities to break through...

Yara wrote: The "end of art" (Hegel, 19th Century) and the "end of music" (Schiller and many others) has been declared so many times over the history that I don't take it seriously anymore.

Strangely, the composer who's widely regarded as 20th Century's most innovative musician, Arnold Schoenberg, is all but absent from SirGH's post, which is understandable: he relates to Stravinsky's neo-classicism, which has yield wonderful works, no doubt, but to my mind is undoubtely a return to the past and a regression in terms of music development.

Also, there's a sharp decrease in quality from Stravinsky to Frank Zappa. And what a sharp one.

We have recently witnessed the coming and passing of composers who still are pretty much an enigma to us: Thelonious Monk, for instance. A musical genius who people have a hard time trying to label. And one may argue that, in his own way and style, he's no worse than many names in classical music. Same goes for John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Cole Porter or Duke Ellington or Gershwin. All these artists were pop artists in their own time, just like Mozart and Bach were centuries ago.

We don't know what will come out of it. We had a poet/musician in the 60's and 70's like Bob Dylan - who am I to say that he's worse than some classical artist?

I don't like this music millenialism. There are times it seems music is going downhill and there are times we feel we're living in a golden age.

There's a lot of positive things to be stressed too.

Over the past 1500 years... absolutely.  Plenty of it.  But can we name one artist who has come out since The Beatles who has left a significant dent in what we as a culture define art to be?

Yara wrote: My point being: Who knows if, 30 years from now, people won't be saying:  "Man, those times when there was Rush, Kate Bush, Joni Mitchell, Michael Jackson, Radiohead - the guys changed the whole scene with O.K Computer! - were really the best. Music nowadays sucks."

Zappa is not from the 18th Century. Here's an artist who came after the Beatles and had a significant impact on music culture.

Stockhausen renewed people's interest in innovations in classical music.

That's my view. The "Nach uns die Flut" kind of thinking doesn't convince me, as bad as things may be portrayed.

Whisperer wrote: In my opinion most of the released music has always sucked. The thing is that when years go by, all the shitty songs are forgotten, even though they were huge hits at their time. Ten years ago all those Britney songs were heard everywhere (Baby One More Time and those), but now you practically never hear them on the radio. Only the best songs survive the time. That's why Queen and other great bands are still played on radio stations around the world every day. This creates an illusion that old music was great and new music sucks. Only a small part of old music is great, most of it sucked like most of today's music sucks. This still doesn't explain why some songs are such a huge hits when they are released, even though they are bad. This also doesn't explain why we still hear that pure shit by Nirvana on the radio, even though it's not "in" anymore. But at least my theory explains something :) 

Sir GH wrote: So it took about 1450 years to grow from very primitive music to Stravinsky, and 50 years to recess to I Wanna Fuck You.  One can only stand in awe.  The average person breathed in Beethoven and Stravinsky a century ago... and today the average person is dancing to I Kissed A Girl.

Artists like Frank Zappa and Yes continued from where Stravinsky left off... but because of I Wanna Fuck You and all things related to it, the average person will probably never understand this evolution of how we got from Midieval to Frank Zappa and why he is as important to the evolution of music as Bach, Mozart, and Tchaikovsky.

Of course this argument can and will be picked apart, because this very downfall has rendered most of us unable to see these things in the grand perspective of musical evolution aside from our personal tastes as determined by the futile, generic music on the radio and TV.  If something isn't catchy within 30 seconds, our attention span will simply deflect us elsewhere.  That's what we have been reduced to.  Even when classical music is used for a jingle, ten seconds of a melody are looped, instead of continuing the melody, because they know the average person needs to recall what they heard ten seconds for the music to remain interesting.

At the very least, the general sentiment of the slow, upward progression and quick downfall really isn't up for debate, is it?  I fear for the future of music and what the soundtracks of people's lives will be in the years to come.

Sir GH wrote:

Yara wrote: My point being: Who knows if, 30 years from now, people won't be saying:  "Man, those times when there was Rush, Kate Bush, Joni Mitchell, Michael Jackson, Radiohead - the guys changed the whole scene with O.K Computer! - were really the best. Music nowadays sucks."

Point taken.  But we already can say most of that now.  In terms of mainstream exposure (we're talking about the average person's perception of what good music is, right?) Rush, Joni Mitchell, and Kate Bush are all far past their prime.  Radiohead was never really mainstream, and Michael Jackson hasn't had a hit song in over 10 years.  My big question is - what current artists in their prime are on top 40 radio now, making up for the absence of the artists you've highlighted?  Coldplay?  Kelly Clarkson?

Zappa is not from the 18th Century. Here's an artist who came after the Beatles and had a significant impact on music culture.

Music culture, yes... but not popular culture.  Most people don't know who he is, never mind being aware of or understanding his accomplishments.

Stockhausen renewed people's interest in innovations in classical music.

Yes, but within a very small circle of dedicated listeners of classical music.  Rock and roll was already happening when his compositions started to be heard.  In addition to Stockhausen, today there are composers like Karl Jenkins and Srul Irving Glick (also recently deceased) who have continued the evolution of music, unbeknownst to most.

That's my view. The "Nach uns die Flut" kind of thinking doesn't convince me, as bad as things may be portrayed.

You've certainly got me thinking a bit more positively.  But I'm not entirely convinced that this hole is one we can dig out of.

ThomasQuinn wrote: Yes has nothing to do with Stravinsky

I could launch into a long -winded argument how Stravinskyist tonality and expanded tonal harmony influenced film music, but not popular music (Yes), and how avant-gardist art-rock (Zappa) is primarily influenced by John Cage and George Russell's Lydian-Chromatic conception of tonality, but I will spare you.