steven 35638 18.05.2009 23:58 |
Dearly beloved Queenies, I wish to bring to the forefront of this forum a discussion on my least favorite Queen album. Even John Deacon, in 1984, said that "This (Jazz) is an album that I dislike." I have always struggled to comprehend the reasons behind my distaste for this record. After some careful research and speculation, I have determined several attributes that were, at least to this author's opinion, harmful to the overall success of the album. Ever since the band formed in 1971, Queen would record an album, then tour the bloody world, then record another album, and then tour the the bloody world again -- and this process continues up until at least 1978 when the band seemed to have lost much of its creative health and staying power. I could imagine the band must have been tired and quite bored of the same repetitive formula over and over again. I think this reflects in the production and overall design of Jazz. Consider the following: [listo] [li]The previous three albums (A Night at the Opera, A Day at the Races, and News of the World) each demonstrate a gradual improvement in the quality of sound. Take out a good pair of headphones, and witness for yourself just how polished and clear the albums sound. Now, compare this to Jazz's dull, shallow, and muffled sound. One would have thought the album was going to sound great since Roy Thomas Baker, for the first time since 1975, joined the band in its production. The album begs for a bigger, better sound -- much like that of News of the World! So why is it that Roy Thomas Baker, and the rest of the band for that matter, allow for this album to sound so inferior to its predecessors? Answer me this and I'll give you a cookie! I have my own theories, but will share those later. [li]In previous albums, the albums generally demonstrated a natural and flowing order of tracks. Granted, News of the World was a little disjointed and unformulated since the band deliberately only allowed themselves ten weeks to record, rather than the typical four months, and even scheduled a North American tour as a deadline for recording. Jazz, however, was recorded over the course of roughly four months and it would appear that the band had little regard for a natural and flowing running order. For example, Fat Bottomed Girls and Bicycle Race should not have been separated and instead placed side-by-side. Let Me Entertain You would probably have worked better as an opener instead of being placed at the end of side one. In addition, Don't Stop Me Now would have been a far more powerful closer than More of that Jazz. [li]There are 13 compositions on the album, which is the most since 1974's Sheer Heart Attack. With this many songs, the band could probably have scrapped one or two of the more mediocre songs (Ex. 'Fun It' & 'More of that Jazz') and maybe (if there was additional material) have replaced those songs with stronger songs. Granted, not all is bad with the album. It features some notable gems, such as Mercury's delicate ballad Jealousy, Deacon's magnificent ballad In Only Seven Days, and May's underrated rocker Dead On Time. I just feel this album could have been much stronger! [/listo] |
john bodega 19.05.2009 00:21 |
See that's weird, because while I love "Dead On Time", I think "Jealousy" wasn't a patch on his other piano ballads, and "In Only Seven Days" should've been canned. Interesting thread though. |
Yara 19.05.2009 00:54 |
Hi, Steven! Amazing thread. Thanks for creating it. Jazz is indeed a controversial album. So much so that a reviewer in(famously) went on to say that it was a fascist album. :op What the reviewer was missing, and maybe what's most different about it in regard to the previous albums, is the degree of humor - I think humor plays a huge role in this recording and if one takes it for what it is, a tongue-in-cheek attempt at coming up with as many different kinds of songs as possible, it's a powerful album. The opening is priceless: Mustapha would become one of Queen's most requested songs in live concerts. It was enough for Freddie to do the "iiiiiiiiiiiiii" that the audience already went mad. Hehehe. Mustapha had to be the first song because it is for sure the most humorous. It sets the stage for what's to come: a pastiche full of some dirty language, sarcastic lines and different music styles. Mustapha leads to Fat Bottomed Girls, a Queen classic, provided, and what's most important, an amazing achievement by Brian in sounding like he's driving Freddie to a rodeo (hehehe). The lyrics are priceless and its humor (again) is just right in our face. The song has an all too appealing groove and is very well thought out and structured. Jealousy, as you noted, is a wonderful song, and there's a lot of creativity there in terms of instrumentation - it has at the same time a pop-love-song feeling and a more classical take. It's also a bit humorous in the way this more classical take is rendered - the intro is both beautiful and funny in its deliberate artificiality, for instance - Freddie does a very affected singing which is already a sign that things are not to be taken too seriously there. There are priceless lines as: "I wasn't man enough to let you hurt my pride". Hehe. And, see, his problem is not with jealousy, as it first seems: it's with falling in love and the other person involved in this. It's an elegant, humorous rant! : -))) Bycicle Race - We had two rockers - Mustapha and FBG - and then a ballad. Something in-between was needed - a song which would gather all the elements from the tracks played so far - this is Bycicle Race. It has different tempos - it gets quicker, then slower, then quicker... :op - and it's simply a great tune. The composition is way too clever, Brian May's attack seems to quote his sudden attacks in Mustapha too. Freddie's vocals are great, the band is just tight and the song is a delight to listen to. Again, it's a song full of humor, but the humor is not done at the expense of the music quality. If You Can't Beat Me - It's a great rocker again. The perfect song for a live setting. It's absolutely catchy and it proved to be a success among fans. Brian's guitar playing is amazing, the lyrics are amusing, and its rythm is absolutely contagious. And then there's a quite long soloing by Brian which is really great. Let Me Entertain You - It's one of my favorite Queen's songs. ;-)))) The lyrics say it all - all that I like about Queen and Freddie in particular. Deacon's bass sounds like the strike of a hammer over Brian's distorted guitar in the beginning - it all creates a sense of menace and threat. Freddie begins his vocals as if he had really went mad - he sounds evil! The lyrics are fun, priceless, very clever and humorous, but a bit dark - it's a performer telling us in our face what he's about. It's arrogant, it's grand. - This song has almost an imitative counterpoint. Technically speaking, it's a wonder - the chord pattern is replicated throughout by the whole band but the voices keep their autonomy. Freddie's vocals are among the most difficult he ever committed to recording. The verses introducing the song, as well as those finishing it, are all to hard to pull off - he starts with a guttural tone and then he goes up until he reaches what's almost a countertenor C. It's wonderful - of course, because the song is played in a much slower pace in studio than live, he had the time to reach the note and sustain it. The song was obviously played faster live and, even when he did try to nail the notes, he had to adapt the highest one to the flattened B in the highest tenor range in order not to be out of tune: he does it beautifuly at Hammersmith Odeon, 1979. It's too fast for him to reach all the spectrum of a quite lengthy note. Dead On Time - As you said, an underrated gem. It's an exciting rocker - it's very fast and raw, it's rock at its best. The lyrics are great and fun, and the "keep yourself alive" is even quoted - as it happens throughout the album as a humorous device. In Only Seven Days - A great piece by Deacon. As good as If You Can't Beat Them, but in a diferent style. Again, good lyrics, as it's almost always the case with Deacon, and wonderful musicianship. John Deacon, just like in News of The World, is by now clearly contributing with tunes which are among Queen's very best. This is a great balance. Dreamer's Ball - Hands down, Steven! It's a song of genius. It's actually pretty much in the line of other May's ventures into different styles - Good Company, FBG in the same recording, Sleeping on a Sidewalk, and so on. Fun it - Visionary! A lot of groove there and a quite clever compromise between a kind of funk and rock. It's a song I particularly adore, as pretty much most of the attempts by Queen at adapting the funk-disco sound to their catalogue. I like Hot Space a lot, so this is a kind of announcement. Leaving Home ain't easy - It's a great ballad, and May's vocals are so tender and beautiful. It adds to the diversity of the album, I guess. I like the lyrics a lot too. More Of That Jazz - I thoroughly enjoy this song. The riff is wonderful, the lyrics are great and Roger singing is exciting - he sings with such power and attitude. It has all the elements of a good song and it's a nice way to finish the recording: it features the TITLE of the album, so it's natural that it'd end up with this song, and it wraps all up with a more serious comment on society and the music business - it's as if they were saying with the song: look how many different styles we can adapt to rock and still make it accessible. :-))) It's very cleverly done, I guess. Hit: Don't Stop Me Now: Do I need to say something? ;-)))) ------------- Production: I like the way the album sounds, but I'd like to comment on it later, because I've already written too much, as always. --------------- Deacon: His input in the album is so great that I can only think that he disliked the album because, maybe, his tunes ended up sounding differently from what he wanted; plus, it may also have to do with other aspects of the album - production, lyrics, who knows? What I'd like to point out is that an artist view of his own work doesn't have to be ours - We know, after all, that Kafka almost burned his work - it seems a crime to us!!! - because he ended up hating his writtings. Thanks to his, hm, "friend" (hehehe), the work was saved from a tragic destiny. It's just an instance of how artists may work with very different standards, for various reasons, than ours! ---------------- You better start liking this album or I'll haunt you in your nightmares with my most unpleasant figure! :-))) Take care, honey! Great thread. I loved it. So, why, why don't you like the album, hum? [crossing my arms and frowning at Steven] hehehe Bye! Yara |
MmP 19.05.2009 01:32 |
I see no bad in this Album. It has up and downs obviously but overall to me it's still on that creativity path that includes the albums from Queen to The Game. Those were all gems. |
mike hunt 19.05.2009 01:59 |
Most bands wish they could record an album like Jazz, but I do consider it the most inconsistent album up to that point. It's the production and two horrible songs "more of that Jazz" and "fun it." that bring it down a bit, but Jazz is still clearly better than hot space, the works, magic, and the miracle. Mustapha rocks, Fat bottom girls, Jelousy, entertain you, dead on time, dreamers ball and don't stop me now are all gems. I still think this could have been much stronger, and could have been as good as the first 6 or even better with stronger production, running order, why seperate FBG and bicycle races?...and the two roger songs should have been destroyed. Overall, I love the album. |
pittrek 19.05.2009 02:06 |
One of the best albums of the seventies, not only by Queen |
Bigfish 19.05.2009 03:37 |
The only thing wrong with Jazz is the tracklisting. The running order leaves something to be desired. I could bore everyone with bollocks that no one would read anyway in an attempt to defend it but basically Jazz is the last real queen album until Innuendo in '91. So Jazz ? what the hell went wrong ? err..not too much really |
bryony 19.05.2009 03:40 |
Jazz, a bad album ??? What the fuck are you TALKING ABOUT ??!!! Seek urgent medical attention straight away please. |
mike hunt 19.05.2009 04:04 |
Bigfish wrote: The only thing wrong with Jazz is the tracklisting. The running order leaves something to be desired. I could bore everyone with bollocks that no one would read anyway in an attempt to defend it but basically Jazz is the last real queen album until Innuendo in '91. So Jazz ? what the hell went wrong ? err..not too much really ha ha, the last real queen album?...the game was a real queen album I think, lol. |
Reid_Special_98 19.05.2009 04:20 |
I really like Jazz...however I must agree here. I've always thought the entire album sounded like it was recorded in a tin can. Very metallic sounding and thin. It is crying for a 30th Anniversary (well...I guess '31st Anniversary') remastering. I love the songs, but the overall album has this completely different sound. |
Bigfish 19.05.2009 05:57 |
mike hunt wrote:Bigfish wrote: The only thing wrong with Jazz is the tracklisting. The running order leaves something to be desired. I could bore everyone with bollocks that no one would read anyway in an attempt to defend it but basically Jazz is the last real queen album until Innuendo in '91. So Jazz ? what the hell went wrong ? err..not too much reallyha ha, the last real queen album?...the game was a real queen album I think, lol. Oh noooo my friend! The Game ushered in the era for Queen as a singles band. Think about it - 4 singles for the first time, short album (under 35 mins), some strong short songs but lot's of filler. Fred's 1980 interview in Melody Maker said it all ¨.....I think of my songs as disposable pop...you try it, you like it, you discard it...disposable pop yes! ''I think he was being a little hard on himself but you get the idea. |
maxpower 19.05.2009 06:21 |
My opinon of Jazz is every band starts a creative decline this was Queen's. I have never liked the drum sound very thin & I think the fact it was recorded in Europe possibly adds to whole sound. 1) Mustapha - never liked it has comic value for live situations for the crowd to sing along with but horrible really. 4/10 2) Fat Bottomed Girls - I prefer the album version to the single version as the band must have as that is what was performed sounds a little lightweight due to the production. 8/10 3) Jealousy - Not one of Freddie's better ballads sounds a bit like a demo & the acoustic guitar running through it I've never liked 4/10 4) Bicycle Race - Not my favourite not even Brian's solo saves it my opinion should have been elbowed entirely 5/10 5) If You Can't Beat Them - Works better live than on the album, the production once again lets down & I hate the outro where it goes all "fuzzy" 6/10 6) Let Me Entertain You - Once again with a heavier production would been far stronger, it's well documented this should have been the opening track 7/10 7) Dead On Time - Underrated why it wasn't done live is still a mystery, but once again the drums are too thin 8/10 8) In Only Seven Days - I do like this one again this would have worked live with Freddie at the piano 7/10 9) Dreamer's Ball - The above wasn't performed live but this one was a bit of a stinker 4/10 10) Fun It - Awful the whole thin drum sound is really evident like Bicycle Race should have been elbowed 3/10 11) Leaving Home Ain't Easy - Again underrated really like it would have worked maybe with Brian on his own in the "quieter" bits of a gig 8/10 12) Don't Stop Me Now - Freddie's saving grace in terms of self penned compositions on this project possibly the strongest song on the whole album 9/10 13) No More Of That Jazz - The medley of the album doesn't help an already average track, I do like Roger's vocal with a heavier production could have been better 6/10 So overall it's hit & miss the strong tracks really stand out as does the fodder, but trim the whole track listing from 13 to say 9 (keep the ones I've marked 3-5 out of 10 for b-sides) you have a good album not brilliant at least a consistent one. |
rschoorl 19.05.2009 07:01 |
Having started following Queen religiously during "A Night At the Opera", I think that, the time you got into Queen, gives you different perspectives on albums. For me, this was the first disappointing Queen album, because ultimately it seemed uninspired and not ground breaking (which every Queen album up to that time was) I agree with the assessment that it seems disjointed with no real flow. That being said, now I look back at "Jazz" as one of their better efforts, based on my opinion of some later recordings. My mind set in 1978 was that for the first time they were sounding formulaic to me and (I hate to say this) boring at times. |
jozef 19.05.2009 07:30 |
pittrek wrote: "One of the best albums of the seventies, not only by Queen" Pittrek, pittrek what are you drinking - or you're a madman ? You just bought few of those japanese remasters and now this ....... !? |
thomasquinn 32989 19.05.2009 07:38 |
jozef wrote: pittrek wrote: "One of the best albums of the seventies, not only by Queen" Pittrek, pittrek what are you drinking - or you're a madman ? You just bought few of those japanese remasters and now this ....... !? The thought has not struck you that this album may have a few merits you didn't notice? |
Bigfish 19.05.2009 07:39 |
I'm just waiting for someone to tell me AKOM is better than Jazz...... |
lalaalalaa 19.05.2009 07:48 |
I like Jazz a lot, especially Roger's drumming in Let Me Entertain You and Dead On Time. |
pittrek 19.05.2009 07:55 |
jozef wrote: pittrek wrote: "One of the best albums of the seventies, not only by Queen" Pittrek, pittrek what are you drinking - or you're a madman ? You just bought few of those japanese remasters and now this ....... !? Good point. I correct my statement - "I consider it one of the best albums of the seventies by Queen (together with SHA and Opera)" I don't want to comment other bands |
Sebastian 19.05.2009 09:40 |
Steven: I beg to differ with the first part where you write that 'ever since the band formed in 1971, Queen would record an album, then tour the bloody world, then record another album, and then tour the bloody world again'. Let's see why: Queen debut album was recorded and they went to some local dates. Hardly 'the whole bloody world' (I know you mean it metaphorically, not as in 'all 170+ countries', but still this is just mainland, not even Ireland). Queen II is recorded, they tour (sometimes as supporting act) England, Luxembourg, West Germany, Scotland, Wales and the States (oh yeah and one private date in Oz). Hardly 'the bloody world'. Sheer Heart Attack is recorded, they tour England, Scotland, Wales, Sweden, Finland, West Germany, Spain, The Netherlands, Canada, the States and Japan. It may count as 'world tour' though there were no Australian, African or South American dates, but I suppose three continents are good enough. Opera's recorded, and they tour UK, USA, Japan and Australia. Four countries (or six if you count England, Scotland and Wales separately) are hardly 'the bloody world'. Great, great, great tour, but not a 'world tour' per se. A Day at the Races is recorded, and they tour the States, Canada, Sweden, Denmark, West Germany, The Netherlands, Switzerland, England and Scotland. Nine countries, two continents, no Oz, no Asia, no Africa, no South America... hardly a world tour. News of the World: USA, Canada, nine countries in Europe. Again, a North American / European tour, not a world one. So the whole 'record the album, then tour the bloody world' only had happened once (and it's still a 'streched out' case) before 'Jazz'. Of course, it's not very relevant for the thread itself but I think it's important not to mislead anybody, since many people could be reading your post (and they should - it's gr8), and it's excellent besides this detail. Now, about the rest of the discussion so far: - I disagree with the 'improvement in the quality of the sound' from Opera to News: White Man doesn't sound good, and 'News of the World' is sort of 'dry' (which is partly their own choice). But, for me, nothing compares to the sound of 'Opera', at least not until 'The Miracle' (shitty songwriting except for some tracks, but marvellous production). - I suppose More of that Jazz was put at the end because of the 'medley'. I quite like the track, to be honest, just because of the vocals: they're brill! - They probably had a compromise to include two of Roger's and two of John's, as they'd done for 'News' and as they'd do for 'The Game'. It's sad though that Mr Taylor didn't submit better material: Fun It is an OK song but when you think it's from the same bloke who wrote Drowse and who would write Days of Our Lives... - I don't think humour played an important role on this record (as opposed to the previous ones). It was more a matter of bad mood, since reportedly there were loads of inner conflicts, and as a matter of fact Roy was asked to produce again not for musical but for personal reasons: they urgently needed a referee. 'News' was also a bit of a rowed record, and keep in mind that a third of the album doesn't feature the four band members (both of Roger's miss John, the closing track misses Brian, Sidewalk misses Freddie as well as the already mentioned Fight from the Inside). - I think Mustapha was heavily requested because it's so ridiculous it's brilliant (i.e. entertaining). But it's not a masterpiece like Bo Rhap or Prophet's Song. It's simply silly. - Brian, being such a perfectionist, didn't bother to repair the mistake he'd made on Fat Bottomed Girls break (causing a dissonant G/F which is not deliberate since live versions correct the error). Sure enough, it doesn't make him a bad musician, but certainly below his own standards. - I don't think Jealousy is very 'classical' per se, although it may have some subtle ancient influences. I really don't see the humour here: it's more a matter of heartache. Great, great song. - Yara: No way Mustapha's a rocker. It's barely got four bars of 'rocking' guitar and drums. It's as rocker as Great King Rat is salsa because of the cowbell. - Bicycle Race does have some humour, but not a good one IMO. What a stupid lyric... but of course marvellous music. - I don't think Rog was a visionary for writing a piece of shite like Fun It. I'd rather have him writing great songs in already-established styles (e.g. Days of Our Lives) than this. - John probably disliked the album due to the problems the band were having inside. It may have brought some bad memories for them all. I know of a very tense moment by B&R too. - I agree: the artists' view doesn't have to affect ours. If John hates it, maybe he'd like to give me his copy ;) And he'd better throw in some manuscripts for his songs too ! Myself, I like the album and I think it's great, and Don't Stop Me Now alone's better than a lot of the things they did in the 80's combined. |
masterstroke_84 19.05.2009 15:01 |
1) I love Jazz 2) Its true, the sound of the whole thing changes between songs... and even in the middle of a song!! (Let me entertain you...) 3) After the album the best Queen tour was realised: 78/79!! fijgiwufguywgf Cheers! |
Holly2003 19.05.2009 15:53 |
Although I agree the LP doesn’t sit together very well, and maybe in hindsight the order of the songs could’ve been different, there are still some great tracks on Jazz. If You Can't Beat Them is a great little song: John wrote a simple 3-chord pop/rock song, which Brian grabbed hold of and turned into something special. It’s also brilliant live. Dead on Time is an insane rocker. Dreamer's Ball and Mustapha are experimental (for Queen) and fun. Fun It was probably influenced by the funk/disco sound that was very popular at the time: I like it. Leaving Home Ain't Easy is very well done, with some nice melodies. However, I would’ve liked to hear Fred sing at least part of it. Don't Stop Me Now encapsulates everything Queen are in a short radio-friendly format. Could never really understand the point of More of that Jazz. It sounds like it was written as a promo for the album, or as some kind of afterthought. No one has mentioned the cover: back before cds and downloads, the cover was really important. Jazz had a gatefold cover with great, and slightly opaque art (what does it mean?) Compare that with the crappy 1980s art and you can see why so many fans prefer Queen in the seventies. Jazz also has a big double-page picture of the band in the studio, plus a pornographic poster. What more could anyone want!? |
steven 35638 19.05.2009 20:05 |
It is wonderful to read so many arguments and comments in reference to Jazz. Thanks for taking part in this discussion! Now, I would like to react to certain comments made in the previous postings. Dear Yara... Thank you for bringing to our attention the reviewer who called the album 'fascist'. It was an interesting word of choice on the reviewer's part. At any rate, I took into account your comment that Jazz is in great part a humorous album. While this is true, as evidence is found in such compositions as 'Mustapha', 'Fat Bottomed Girls', and 'Bicycle Race', this does not entirely seperate the album from its predecessors. I wish to point out that Queen, especially in the seventies, were always very much tongue and cheek and this reflects in most of their music. Obvious examples include 'The Fairy Feller's Master-Stroke', 'Bring Back That Leroy Brown', 'I'm in Love With My Car', 'Seaside Rendezvous', 'The Millionaire Waltz', and 'Bohemian Rhapsody'. I enjoyed your theory that the Deaconator disliked the album because his songs ended up sounding differently than his intentions. It wouldn't surprise me, since it's pretty much guaranteed that the other members manipulated his original ideas. It practically happened all the time! Personally, I believe he disliked the album mostly because of its production -- not to mention the albums frequent references to sex (he was a family man after all!). But of course, this is speculation, I'm not pretending to know his opinions. Thanks for pointing out that an artist's view of his/her own work doesn't necessarily have to be ours. I look forward to your remarks on the album's quality of sound. Greetings Maxpower... I think you were getting somewhere when you noted that the album was recorded in Europe. Actually, more specifically, sessions began in France (circa July of 1978). The band decided not to record in England and instead record at Superbear Studios for the first and only time in their career. I don't believe the entire album was recorded at Superbear Studios, but this could explain for the difference in sound quality. So perhaps the studio's equipment was not quite as good as the equipment the band were used to. Or perhaps the band were simply unfamiliar with the different equipment and therefore misused it slightly. Just speculation of course! Hello Sebastian... I apologize for being too general about the "record an album, then tour the bloody world" comment. Indeed, I was being metaphorical. Thank you for bringing this to our attention so that people won't take those words so literally. At any rate, you addressed several important issues; I enjoyed reading them! |
doxonrox 19.05.2009 20:31 |
Great discussion! I can side with almost all points. However, the recording quality (or lack thereof) is a major hurdle for this album. The "thin" sound that many have mentioned leaves tracks like Dead on Time and Let Me Entertain You void of impact, while the musicianship and energy on those tracks is evident. I'm not sure where the ball was dropped, but RTB and the boys did indeed drop it. That being said... Mustafa is as unique as BoRap - not as good, but there is no other band in the world that could pull that off. It was a joke, and a well played one. First track on the album, though? Not a good choice. I don't give a shit about missed chords - this is rock and roll, not the London Philharmonic. Fat Bottomed Girls has the best drum roll (including In The Air Tonight} of any single EVER! The end of the second verse - Roger hits as many skins as a human can without killing the groove. Fun song, and one that has stood the test of time. Nothing off of DATR can say that. Don't Stop Me Now ranks as one of the best pop songs ever recorded. A very good song, but the performance is strong, thrilling and spontaneous. Their best single ever? Possibly... Dreamers Ball is a treat, Freddie's vocals are incredible throughout the record, and the band was in top form. There's some duds (If You Can't Beat Them and In Only Seven Days are typical embarrassing John Deacon compositions that would continue to drag the band down in subsequent albums), but the band was cooking and the songwriting as a whole was good. I just feel that the production was a trainwreck. They must have been going for a certain sound, and unless that sound was "shitty", they missed the mark. |
lalaalalaa 19.05.2009 21:01 |
I think the sound quality of the album and the way it was recorded was meant to be where the drums shine (at least the first 6 or 7 songs on the album with the exception of Jealously). They were perfectionists so I think they might have wanted it like that and couldn't have it any other way. |
Yara 19.05.2009 22:58 |
Dear Steven, How are you? I hope your day has gone well. You created a quite interesting thread, my darling. It's wonderful to see so many people joining in and discussing the album. First of all, I wanna thank you again for creating the thread and all the users for having joined the discussion with their interesting points of view. It's always great to be here. :-) The album sounds just fine to me. It sounds balanced - not too heavy or overstated, but not really thin or meager as well: it sounds just good to me. :op Congratulations on the thread! Jazz is an album I just love and features some of my favorite Queen's songs, so the thread was indeed a treat. I like it all: the track order, each and ever one of the tracks, the sound of it, the very different kind of humor which underlines the album - it's much more uncompromised, fun, and the more dramatic side is really put aside in such hits as Fat Bottomed Girls and Don't Stop Me Now, which is not the case with Bo Rhap. Mustapha is not simply a humorous hommage to other music styles, as Queen had done before: it's an attack, it's provocative, it's indeed sarcastic in the way Freddie clearly mocks scat-singing, for instance. The guy who said that the album was "fascist" was a jazz fan - no wonder he saw it all as an offense to the music style he adored. The album is humorous in a way Queen had never been before, in my humble opinion: it's sarcastic, in "your face", very provocative, full of hints at Freddie's sexuality and totally, absolutely politically incorret - Mustapha could be regarded as offensive, Fat Bottomed Girls as sexist, Bycicle Race as distasteful, but to my mind they are all just master pieces of uncompromising humor which is NOT done at the expense of the music quality. The album is about fun - "Dont Stop Me Now" has no drama - it's about having fun. Same goes for: Bycicle Race, Let Me Entertain You, Mustapha and Fat Bottomed Girls. :-) Yes, Queen had been humorous before, but not in this way, in my humble opinion. Above all and most important: Thanks, thanks, thanks, darling. :-))) Thanks for being here, for sharing your knowledge and thoughtfulness, for contributing so much to the website. It's a joy. I wish you the VERY best. I failed...well, let's see then...maybe I can hold the album between my teeth and dance with it in front of you...hahaha. Who knows! Maybe it does get you hooked on the album; or outright traumatized. Hehehe. It'd be a risky move. Hug, Yara in a cold climate here, to Brazilian standards: not at all 200 degrees or Mrs. Farenheit! -------------------------------- @ Dear Sebastian. How are you? How are things going? I hope you had a good day. Just like David Horowitz, one of the finest pianist of the last Century, thought that there was much more music in a single Mazurka by Chopin than in a whole symphony by Mahler, Lily of The Valley is much more interesting to me as far as piano playing - or composition - goes than many Queen songs which feature the piano more prominently. So, now I'm quoting you, "Yara: No way Mustapha's a rocker. It's barely got four bars of 'rocking' guitar and drums. It's as rocker as Great King Rat is salsa because of the cowbell.". Well, it's really immaterial to me - to my personal humble taste - whether there are four bars of guitars and drums or just one - there were many rock tunes which gravitated around the piano. I think that Mustapha's piano and vocals DO ROCK - a lot. It's fast paced, energetic, and it's all combined with blistering and sudden guitar attacks by Brian. There's more interest with regard to piano in a Webern's 1 minute piano composition than in many sonatas with all their movements. If one's able to tackle the complexity of these pieces, just like Glenn Gould tried to do with Schoenberg's piano sketches, he opens a whole new world for those interested in the instrument. A rock song may have, indeed, two minutes. And it may be even more piano and vocal than guitar driven - Mustapha's piano is frenetic, the vocals are agressive and daring and Brian's guitar is simply brutal!!! Sebastian, this is just, I wouldn't even say my view, but my very idiossincratic taste - nothing more than that. As I said before, I love your posts, I learn a lot with them and, in fact, I'm all the more honored to be part of a website where there are people such as you and Steven. Keep the posts coming, my dear. I admire them a lot and learn a whole lot with them. Best regards and have a nice day!!! :-)))) [Still mad at you because I didn't gain my virtual kiss. I can write it down for you: "Smack", so all you have to do is copy and paste. :op] Yours, Yara |
N0_Camping4U 20.05.2009 00:11 |
Jazz, to me, is the worse Queen album. I even go so far to say AKOM is better, though... not by much. |
mike hunt 20.05.2009 02:00 |
doxonrox wrote: Great discussion! I can side with almost all points. However, the recording quality (or lack thereof) is a major hurdle for this album. The "thin" sound that many have mentioned leaves tracks like Dead on Time and Let Me Entertain You void of impact, while the musicianship and energy on those tracks is evident. I'm not sure where the ball was dropped, but RTB and the boys did indeed drop it. That being said... Mustafa is as unique as BoRap - not as good, but there is no other band in the world that could pull that off. It was a joke, and a well played one. First track on the album, though? Not a good choice. I don't give a shit about missed chords - this is rock and roll, not the London Philharmonic. Fat Bottomed Girls has the best drum roll (including In The Air Tonight} of any single EVER! The end of the second verse - Roger hits as many skins as a human can without killing the groove. Fun song, and one that has stood the test of time. Nothing off of DATR can say that. Don't Stop Me Now ranks as one of the best pop songs ever recorded. A very good song, but the performance is strong, thrilling and spontaneous. Their best single ever? Possibly... Dreamers Ball is a treat, Freddie's vocals are incredible throughout the record, and the band was in top form. There's some duds (If You Can't Beat Them and In Only Seven Days are typical embarrassing John Deacon compositions that would continue to drag the band down in subsequent albums), but the band was cooking and the songwriting as a whole was good. I just feel that the production was a trainwreck. They must have been going for a certain sound, and unless that sound was "shitty", they missed the mark. I agree with everything you said, except for your opinion of "in only seven days" I think it's a good ballad and fits the mood of the album. the one thing That jazz has in common with Jazz the musical style is it has a fun time feel to it. Sounds like the guys are having the time of their lives. yes, fat bottomed girls has stood the test of time sebastion, lol. And how can anyone say a kind of magic is better than jazz?.... |
brians wig 20.05.2009 04:19 |
Steven wrote:
[listo]
[li] The album begs for a bigger, better sound -- much like that of News of the World!
[/listo]
Are you for real? We all have our own opinions and I love Jazz. It's always been one of my favorite Queen albums (my Favourite being Queen II), but News Of The World does very little for me. Infact, it's the album that gets played the least! |
Bigfish 20.05.2009 05:42 |
N0_Camping4U wrote: Jazz, to me, is the worse Queen album. I even go so far to say AKOM is better, though... not by much. Ha ha !!!! excellent, there's always one. I've been waiting days for that. You've cheered me up no end. |
lalaalalaa 20.05.2009 07:35 |
N0_Camping4U wrote: Jazz, to me, is the worse Queen album. I even go so far to say AKOM is better, though... not by much. So you like Flash Gordon more than Jazz also? |
SaskQueenFan 20.05.2009 10:02 |
I disagree with the premise that Jazz is Queen's worst ablum... albums such as Hot Space and A Kind of Magic are far worse efforts. Jazz to me, has some quality songs on it-- Bicycle Race, Fat Bottomed Girls, Don't Stop Me Now, Mustupha and a few others. Hot Space has Queen's worst song on it-- Put Out the Fire. Although Space has some good songs on it, mainly on the Side 2 of the album... Life is Real (Song For Lennon), Calling All Girls, Las Palabras De Amour(the Words of Love) and Under Pressure. Jazz would certainly not be at the top of my list of bad Queen albums. Of course I like Jazz for the poster that came with it....[img=/images/smiley/msn/wink_smile.gif][/img] I also included Jazz in my top 10, that is how much I like the album. |
steven 35638 20.05.2009 11:09 |
Yara... I find it quite interesting that you are satisfied with the sound quality of Jazz. I suppose I can understand your viewpoint. The sound is indeed not overstated. I must admit that I have always enjoyed the various dynamic (or volume) levels in 'Mustapha'. It goes from (although this is open to argument since this is off the top of my head) mezzo forte, to fortissimo, back to mezzo forte, and finally back to fortissimo again. It's quite effective! However, I still stand by what I said when I said this album begs for a bigger, better sound -- to my ears, the album still sounds weaker than both its predecessors and its successors. Finally, I would like to say that I agree with you about how this album is sarcastic and provocative. In this aspect, it does seem to differ from the other albums in terms of humor. Brians Wig... Yes, I am for real. I strongly hold the opinion that Jazz begs for a bigger, better sound. However, this is not to be confused with song quality -- since the album has several wonderful gems. ___________________________________________________________________________________________ As a final note, I would like to make it clear that this is my "least favorite" Queen album. I do not necessarily hold the opinion that this is their "worst album." I enjoy each and every single one of their albums. In fact, each one is my favorite, but of all my favorites, this is my least favorite. |
Vali 20.05.2009 11:43 |
I love reading Sebastian & Yara's posts .... thankyouthankyouthankyou !!! I really enjoy everything you write at QZ !! and thanks Steven, for such nice thread !! emmmm .. Jazz ??? ok, we have Don't Stop Me Now in there; they could have released the album with just this song repeated 13 times and I'd be still grateful to the boys :D |
lalaalalaa 20.05.2009 17:19 |
SaskQueenFan wrote: I disagree with the premise that Jazz is Queen's worst ablum... albums such as Hot Space and A Kind of Magic are far worse efforts. Jazz to me, has some quality songs on it-- Bicycle Race, Fat Bottomed Girls, Don't Stop Me Now, Mustupha and a few others. Hot Space has Queen's worst song on it-- Put Out the Fire. Although Space has some good songs on it, mainly on the Side 2 of the album... Life is Real (Song For Lennon), Calling All Girls, Las Palabras De Amour(the Words of Love) and Under Pressure. Jazz would certainly not be at the top of my list of bad Queen albums. Of course I like Jazz for the poster that came with it....[img=/images/smiley/msn/wink_smile.gif][/img] I also included Jazz in my top 10, that is how much I like the album. Just gotta remember it's all a matter of opinion because I like Put Out The Fire (and the whole Hot Space album for that matter) |
We Are The Champions 20.05.2009 18:04 |
bryony wrote: Jazz, a bad album ??? What the fuck are you TALKING ABOUT ??!!! Seek urgent medical attention straight away please. I would agree with you!!!. Not their best album but much better than most of their 80's albums which were commercial single based albums with more fillers. Innuendo is the exception - great album! |
Fun_It 20.05.2009 18:27 |
Absolutley nothing. |
doxonrox 20.05.2009 20:51 |
Fun_It wrote: Absolutley nothing. War What is it good for? |
Bigfish 21.05.2009 03:45 |
say it again. |
mike hunt 22.05.2009 09:36 |
Just finished listening to Jazz, and it sure does rock. Jealousy has to be one of the most underated ballads in queen's history. |
Valentine '90 22.05.2009 10:52 |
My favourite album, btw |
JoxerTheDeityPirate 22.05.2009 13:34 |
i must admit that i listen to this album quite often and as someone else pointed out Dont Stop Me Now is now often cited as one of the greatest pop songs of all time in various polls in the UK [its usually a toss up between that and ABBA's Dancing Queen for the top spot].if you want to get a party started whack either of them 2 on :-] personal fave track? Leaving Home Aint Easy,just a hauntingly simple song done brilliantly |
Bigfish 22.05.2009 13:52 |
Dreamers ball - one of my favourite queen songs. Unlikely to get a party started though. |
The Real Wizard 22.05.2009 15:29 |
SaskQueenFan wrote: Although Space has some good songs on it, mainly on the Side 2 of the album But it was side A that influenced Thriller. Michael Jackson said there would have been no Thriller had it not been for Hot Space... and it turned out to be the best-selling record ever. |
Rick 22.05.2009 15:50 |
The production is abysmal, to say the least. The sound of the snare drum in particular. Did Roger hit some trash cans instead? Then again, the drum sound of Queen never really appealed to me, though there are some exceptions: News Of The World, A Day At The Races and The Miracle. |
August R. 23.05.2009 04:33 |
Just wanted to point out that the RS music reviewer didn't actually say that Jazz is a fascist album. He said that Queen are a fascist rock band. He just happened to make this claim while reviewing Jazz. Here's the quote: "Whatever its claim, Queen isn't here just to entertain. This group has come to make it clear exactly who is superior and who is inferior. Its anthem "We Will Rock You" is a marching order: you will not rock us, we will rock you. Indeed, Queen may be the first truly fascist rock band." The whole rewiew can be found at: link |
Future Manager 23.05.2009 07:55 |
Although I like most songs on the album, the production is dreadful and I blame Roy Thomas Baker mostly. What the hell was he thinking, give Queen such a tinny sound? He probably was in some weird experimenting mood and Queen (my guess is Freddie and Brian) went along with it, which is too bad. It's not weird that both John and Roger don't like the album, because it's their work that suffers the most. Many songs suffer from a lack of 'oomph', especially of course the heavier tracks. Compare Let Me Entertain on Jazz with any live version, what a difference! Also Dead On Time, which is a great song, suffers terribly from the drum sound. But also the ballads like Jealousy and Leaving Home Ain't Easy could have been much more powerful with the traditional big Queen sound. Luckily there are songs that don't suffer as much from the Baker production, like Don't Stop Me Now and If You Can't Beat Them. The only tracks I don't really like, song-wise, are In Only Seven Days and Dreamer's Ball. Yes, I like the groove of Fun It and More Of That Jazz also has a great riff (Roger's vocal at the end make me shiver). I prefer these two songs over Rock It and Coming Soon for instance, although Roger himself wouldn't agree with me I think. The album cover is also stylish in my opinion. |
SaskQueenFan 23.05.2009 12:31 |
Sir GH wrote:SaskQueenFan wrote: Although Space has some good songs on it, mainly on the Side 2 of the albumBut it was side A that influenced Thriller. Michael Jackson said there would have been no Thriller had it not been for Hot Space... and it turned out to be the best-selling record ever. Hmmm.. no Hot Space no Thriller? Maybe the album shouldn't have been made then....[img=/images/smiley/msn/tounge_smile.gif][/img] |
Amazon 23.05.2009 15:23 |
SaskQueenFan wrote: "Hmmm.. no Hot Space no Thriller? Maybe the album shouldn't have been made then...." LOL. I love 'Thriller' and I really like 'Hot Space' so I definitely don't think that HS should never have been made! [img=/images/smiley/msn/teeth_smile.gif][/img] |
mike hunt 24.05.2009 00:52 |
listen to back chat and dancer, then listen to thriller and it's obvious hot space was one of many different influences in making that album. |
Crisstti 26.05.2009 00:20 |
August R. wrote: Just wanted to point out that the RS music reviewer didn't actually say that Jazz is a fascist album. He said that Queen are a fascist rock band. He just happened to make this claim while reviewing Jazz. Here's the quote: "Whatever its claim, Queen isn't here just to entertain. This group has come to make it clear exactly who is superior and who is inferior. Its anthem "We Will Rock You" is a marching order: you will not rock us, we will rock you. Indeed, Queen may be the first truly fascist rock band." The whole rewiew can be found at: link Is that guy stupid?. Of course they would rock the audience, and not the other way around. They're the band!, they're the ones playing the music!, what would he expect?. That is the review why Roger wrote that letter to Rolling Stone...?, or was that a review of a concert in Argentina?. |
Amazon 26.05.2009 00:37 |
Crisstti wrote:August R. wrote: Just wanted to point out that the RS music reviewer didn't actually say that Jazz is a fascist album. He said that Queen are a fascist rock band. He just happened to make this claim while reviewing Jazz. Here's the quote: "Whatever its claim, Queen isn't here just to entertain. This group has come to make it clear exactly who is superior and who is inferior. Its anthem "We Will Rock You" is a marching order: you will not rock us, we will rock you. Indeed, Queen may be the first truly fascist rock band." The whole rewiew can be found at: linkIs that guy stupid?. Of course they would rock the audience, and not the other way around. They're the band!, they're the ones playing the music!, what would he expect?. That is the review why Roger wrote that letter to Rolling Stone...?, or was that a review of a concert in Argentina?. RS has never liked Queen. Not only did they exclude Queen from their list of the 100 greatest artists of all time (which Eric Clapton made three times and John Lennon made twice), but their reviews were absurd. In the review of AKOM, they described Gimme The Prize as.. wait for it... greedy! Putting aside the fact that the song is about winning The Prize and it would be a little pointless to say 'Please Give Me the Prize', the idea of accusing a rock band of being greedy is laughable. AKOM is not one of my favourite albums, but not because some song is greedy. RS must really hate Queen if they are willing to dig up a bottom of the barrel complaint like 'greedy.' |