Winter Land Man 07.04.2009 12:09 |
What happened between Queen and Mack? Why'd he leave after 'A Kind Of Magic'??? I know he produced a lot of the tracks on that album but David Richards came in about half way, or worked on Brian and Roger's more. |
-fatty- 2850 07.04.2009 12:43 |
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Yara 07.04.2009 13:14 |
"Use him" sounds a bit weird when it comes to such a towering figure. The guy is a master, not only a brilliant sound engineer and producer, but a great musician and composer as well. He worked with David Richards in lots of projects and they share many ideas and experiences. David Richards, also an accomplished producer, engineer and musician, has done a superb job on Miracle, Innuendo and Made In Heaven. He's friends with Reinhold Mack and they worked together in many Queen productions. No offense, but I really don't know what's the purpose of this thread or why suggesting that there has been some kind of "fight" between them. These are not my favorite Queen albums , but denying that they have been wonderfully produced and engineered would come across as a surprise to me. Brian has always highly praised the work of both. |
Winter Land Man 07.04.2009 13:23 |
Yara wrote: "Use him" sounds a bit weird when it comes to such a towering figure. The guy is a master, not only a brilliant sound engineer and producer, but a great musician and composer as well. He worked with David Richards in lots of projects and they share many ideas and experiences. David Richards, also an accomplished producer, engineer and musician, has done a superb job on Miracle, Innuendo and Made In Heaven. He's friends with Reinhold Mack and they worked together in many Queen productions. No offense, but I really don't know what's the purpose of this thread or why suggesting that there has been some kind of "fight" between them. These are not my favorite Queen albums , but denying that they have been wonderfully produced and engineered would come across as a surprise to me. Brian has always highly praised the work of both. I think David is great too, very great, in fact. But... If the work was great with Mack... why'd they switch to Richards? I'm trying to learn some more Queen history here. |
A_WintersTale 07.04.2009 14:00 |
There was some thread awhile ago in here where most of the people shared the opinion that Mack was only too poor as a producer. Maybe you could find it somewhere on the archives of the queenzone. |
Yara 07.04.2009 14:13 |
A_WintersTale wrote: There was some thread awhile ago in here where most of the people shared the opinion that Mack was only too poor as a producer. Maybe you could find it somewhere on the archives of the queenzone. lol I don't doubt for a sec. I don't need to search, I rely on your memory. :)) |
Yara 07.04.2009 14:25 |
No prob, Jake Britt. Sorry if I sounded rude. It just came across to me as weird, I mean, both guys always worked hard and did a great job in a period when the band was going through some bad times - Reinhold Mack managed to pull Hot Space together in a very hostile climate. Brian May has always praised the work of Reinhold and David Richards, the guys are tremendous, both of them. They worked together, they were always commited to the guys' views. But, well, the question you ask is not in any way "wrong" or "illegitimate", it just came across to me as awkward because I really admire both of them. It's just that many harmful rumors are generated over time in boards and forums and nowadays it all goes to Brian in some way or another and it's kind of distressing. He's asked to answer nonsensical questions, to give the same answer thousands of times, people expect him to remember everything with 100% of accuracy. I really wouldn't like this thread to have been proposed, but it's just a matter of personal feeling and it doesn't have any influence on its development and on the community, of course. It's my personal view. I mean no offense, absolutely. It's just a personal feeling. Sorry if I came across as rude. Regards. |
k-m 07.04.2009 18:02 |
Well... Have you heard "The Works"? It was produced by Mack. Do I need to add more? |
Holly2003 07.04.2009 18:28 |
Doesn't jake Britt sound like rhyming slang? "I'm away for a hit and a miss. Wait a minute. On second thoughts, better upgrade that to a jacob britt." |
Winter Land Man 07.04.2009 19:10 |
Yara wrote: No prob, Jake Britt. Sorry if I sounded rude. It just came across to me as weird, I mean, both guys always worked hard and did a great job in a period when the band was going through some bad times - Reinhold Mack managed to pull Hot Space together in a very hostile climate. Brian May has always praised the work of Reinhold and David Richards, the guys are tremendous, both of them. They worked together, they were always commited to the guys' views. But, well, the question you ask is not in any way "wrong" or "illegitimate", it just came across to me as awkward because I really admire both of them. It's just that many harmful rumors are generated over time in boards and forums and nowadays it all goes to Brian in some way or another and it's kind of distressing. He's asked to answer nonsensical questions, to give the same answer thousands of times, people expect him to remember everything with 100% of accuracy. I really wouldn't like this thread to have been proposed, but it's just a matter of personal feeling and it doesn't have any influence on its development and on the community, of course. It's my personal view. I mean no offense, absolutely. It's just a personal feeling. Sorry if I came across as rude. Regards. I know you didn't mean to sound rude, don't fear me, lol! I have a reputation for being some 'dangerous guy' on Queenzone, but I'm harmless. I just meant, I wondered why in the middle of the A Kind Of Magic album, Mack stopped working? Half the song is by him and the other half is by David Richards, while Friends Will Be Friends was produced by them both. It's just a bit weird. And I noticed, John and Freddie mainly had Mack and Brian and Roger mainly had David Richards. I LOVE David Richards productions on The Miracle, Innuendo, and Made In Heaven. Innuendo is my favorite Queen album. |
Gr8 King Rat 07.04.2009 19:55 |
OK, not trying to be a smart ass here but what makes Mack and David Richards so great? |
Winter Land Man 07.04.2009 21:34 |
Gr8 King Rat wrote: OK, not trying to be a smart ass here but what makes Mack and David Richards so great? They co-produced Queen and Queen member's solo projects. Mack and Richards are worthy! LoL |
pittrek 08.04.2009 02:43 |
Well he produced exactly the albums I don't like. |
YourValentine 08.04.2009 05:29 |
Mack did not "leave". AKOM was the last album that was partly produced in the Musicland Studio, Munich (Mack) - other songs were produced in the Mountain Studio, Montreux (David Richards). After AKOM the band did not return to Munich, so they did not work with Mack again. |
Vali 08.04.2009 06:33 |
if I remember well, he's credited in Made In Heaven, isn't it? not producing, but as having recorded some of the material used |
Crisstti 08.04.2009 07:58 |
YourValentine wrote: Mack did not "leave". AKOM was the last album that was partly produced in the Musicland Studio, Munich (Mack) - other songs were produced in the Mountain Studio, Montreux (David Richards). After AKOM the band did not return to Munich, so they did not work with Mack again. That seems to be the answer... |
Sebastian 08.04.2009 08:12 |
When you work with a producer, you're not compelled to keep working with him/her for the rest of projects. Mack was contacted by John and Roger when they were looking for a new direction (which is also why they stopped working with Roy, there were no rows either), and Munich became their home for early-to-mid eighties. Of course, for albums and songs not done in Munich (Flash, Under Pressure, Staying Power), Mack still produced. When 'Magic' sessions began Mack was still their man, and during the recordings of the album both John and Freddie remained somewhat loyal to him. Brian and Roger, otoh, switched to David Richards for a number of reasons - location (most of their work was in Switzerland), history (Richards had engineered, produced, written, arranged and performed in Rog's solo albums) and the fact his approach was, according to them, more suitable for the kind of sound they wanted in the film. By the time they began the post-Magic projects (Back to the Light, Barcelona, Shove It), they'd grown fonder of their Montreux studios, so they remained there. Since David was already their in-house producer it made sense working with him, as well as flying him to London for the times they recorded at The Townhouse. And by the time they started 'The Miracle', they just continued with that formula, there's no mystery about that. Both Mack and Queen had moved on, which doesn't mean they'd made him redundant. And indeed there are many differences between both styles of producing. Btw, if 'The Works' and 'Hot Space' are way below Queen standards it's not Mack's fault, but Queen's. As for 'Made in Heaven': It's a Beautiful Day was originally (piano and lead vocal) recorded at Musicland Studios during 'The Game' sessions. Let Me Live also comes (Freddie's parts) from Mack-produced material. Same for both songs from Mercury's solo album. |
dougie 08.04.2009 09:09 |
Great post, Sebastian. Thanks! |
Winter Land Man 08.04.2009 11:13 |
Yeah, thank-you everyone for the posts. =) |
Yara 08.04.2009 11:20 |
Sebastian wrote: When you work with a producer, you're not compelled to keep working with him/her for the rest of projects. Mack was contacted by John and Roger when they were looking for a new direction (which is also why they stopped working with Roy, there were no rows either), and Munich became their home for early-to-mid eighties. Of course, for albums and songs not done in Munich (Flash, Under Pressure, Staying Power), Mack still produced. When 'Magic' sessions began Mack was still their man, and during the recordings of the album both John and Freddie remained somewhat loyal to him. Brian and Roger, otoh, switched to David Richards for a number of reasons - location (most of their work was in Switzerland), history (Richards had engineered, produced, written, arranged and performed in Rog's solo albums) and the fact his approach was, according to them, more suitable for the kind of sound they wanted in the film. By the time they began the post-Magic projects (Back to the Light, Barcelona, Shove It), they'd grown fonder of their Montreux studios, so they remained there. Since David was already their in-house producer it made sense working with him, as well as flying him to London for the times they recorded at The Townhouse. And by the time they started 'The Miracle', they just continued with that formula, there's no mystery about that. Both Mack and Queen had moved on, which doesn't mean they'd made him redundant. And indeed there are many differences between both styles of producing. Btw, if 'The Works' and 'Hot Space' are way below Queen standards it's not Mack's fault, but Queen's. As for 'Made in Heaven': It's a Beautiful Day was originally (piano and lead vocal) recorded at Musicland Studios during 'The Game' sessions. Let Me Live also comes (Freddie's parts) from Mack-produced material. Same for both songs from Mercury's solo album. Wonderful!!! Thanks. You're a precious asset of Queenzone. Especially now, in this time of crisis. :) Well, I said that already, I think, but if time allowed and you felt it were a good idea, you could maybe gather some of your posts here, do a quick revision and so on, and make them available as entries or sections on your website. You've answered so well too so many questions that are often made that I think you could make a kind of fun, interactive FAQ there on the website. Something informative and well-spirited. Just a thought, I like your website a lot. Thanks! |
Sebastian 08.04.2009 13:50 |
Good idea, maybe it'll bear fruit sooner or later. |
Marknow 08.04.2009 14:37 |
Here is a excerpt from a Mack interview on iZotope.com. It does not directly answer your question, but it has some nice info in it. Tell us how you came to start working with the band Queen? A fluke. I was working in Los Angeles with Gary Moore at the time. One day I had lunch with Giorgio Moroder. He mentioned rumors that I was supposed to go to Munich to work with Queen. Which was news to me. After calling the studios in Munich I was in a dilemma. Nobody knew anything about the sessions. So I figured [I would] take the trip. Worst case - a week and a ticket lost - no pain no gain. Luckily it worked out pretty good. By the time you started working with Queen, they were a band with a very well-defined sound and approach. How did you fit into Queen as the "newcomer" to the band in the recording studio? Not at all. They were set in their ways like pensioners. Their credo was, "this is how we are used to doing things." For instance editing songs together on 2-inch tape is always a little "iffy". Moving edits ends quickly in a tape looking like a zebra crossing which can cause problems passing the heads, losing top-end. And nobody had two or three 24 track machines around for assembly and offset editing, ending up two or three generations down. Anyway, it took a long time convincing the gentlemen to entertain the idea of punching in the whole band during tracking. You punch in doing vocals right? Yeah, but...hmmmm I don't know...how do we know where we are? You are wearing headphones right now while you are tracking, right? After that proposition went down well and was approved as "not too bad", the work flow became much easier. I had the advantage of being a fast decision maker compared to the band. I could always try things while people were pondering delicate details. What was your working relationship with the band like? Quite relaxed. The band came off a tour of Japan and had some time to spend before going back to England. So it just fell into the "right time, right place" category. The project did not start out as an album. It was a bunch of one- and two-week sessions. The first track we attempted was Crazy Little Thing Called Love. Freddie picked up an acoustic guitar and said, "quick, let's do this before Brian comes." About six hours later the track was done. The guitar solo was an overdub later on. Brian still hates me for making him use a Telecaster for the part. It was released as a pre-album single and went to number one. That obviously helped a great deal to inspire confidence and the working relationship tremendously. What do you feel you brought to their music that was new or distinctively yours? Bigger, wider, better I guess. Trying to experiment more, using technology creatively. "Another One Bites the Dust", for instance, is built on a drum loop. There was the main riff and a bunch of backwards piano notes, cymbal crashes and claps, some guitar fragments. Stuff everybody has in their sample library these days. It would be comparatively easy to build this thing today, if you had the right muse in the first place. The idea was less is more, and it worked pretty well. The band would have never contemplated going about recording in this manner, ever. One of the defining characteristics of Queen was its eclecticism - Queen songs could be practically anything from a kitschy novelty number to a pounding arena anthem. What challenges did that present you as a producer? Diplomacy. There were two camps of song writing: Freddie and Brian. Fred was easy. We thought along similar lines and it took him fifteen to twenty minutes to come up with something absolutely brilliant. Brian on the other hand would come up with a great idea, but get completely lost in insignificant details after the first rush of creativity. Keeping the focus and direction was difficult at the best of times with this mixture of personalities. Getting a track finished was the prime goal, not the flavor . Is there a Queen track or album of which you are particularly proud? The album Hotspace. It was about nine months ahead of its time. Very underrated, really hi tech. Hardly anybody played on it in real time. [It was] still all analogue. A commendable effort. Quite a few things were modeled after some of the stylistics of Hotspace tracks. Your sound as a producer carried over to other projects as well – for instance Billy Squire's single "The Stroke" seemed to live in a similar sonic world as Queen's "Another One Bites the Dust." Can you tell us some of the nuts and bolts of what gives a track the distinctive "Mack" sound? There might be some nuts. No bolts though. There is not really conceptual modeling or a mold of any kind going on. Sometimes I worry that stuff may sound weak and insipid. Consequently I am always torn between a lot of space on one side and complete overkill on the other.Not necessarily left and right. Making everything louder than everything else was always one of my fancies. Of course all in the best possible taste so you don't really notice it. Only when you are trying to analyze what makes it tick, you realize that it can't be done without breaking the law. |
cmsdrums 08.04.2009 15:29 |
I'm not sure on Mack as a Producer - The Game is fantastic. Hot Space sounds great and is technically brilliant but not all my cup of tea musically, and The Works sounds awful!!! I don't know why they didn't/haven't continued working with Dave Richards - The Miracle and Innuendo are great sounding albums, and Roger has worked with Richards on all his solo stuff too. Brian also got Richard to mix the 46664 stuff so there's no loss of contact between them professionally. Dave Richards is, in my opinion, far better than Justin Shirley-Smith, who is now a full time QP employee (appointed by Brian), and his mixes and production are, to be kind, limp and unexciting sonically. |
Rami 10.04.2009 05:52 |
Interesting interview. Thanks alot! |
catqueen 10.04.2009 17:57 |
I love The Works. And the Mack interview was really good, thanks! |