QueenZone discussion #1170049
Worst album?
| Winter Land Man 11.03.2009 16:07 |
It's been asked a billion times, but what is Queen's worst album (not including Flash Gordon)? |
| peterkoz1 11.03.2009 16:39 |
i will try and make this question interesting my list in order: Best not including any Live abum or FG soundtrack only studio: 1: A Night at the opera 2: A day at the races 3: The Game 4: Innuendo 5: Queen 2 6: Shear Heart Attack 7: The Works 8: News of The World 9: A Kind of Magic 10: The Miracle 11: Jazz 12: Made In Heaven 13: Queen 14: Hot Space |
| dbruce 11.03.2009 16:50 |
I don't think this is a very good topic. To rate something as 'worst' is just poor. Queen certainly had ups and downs with their albums, but I challenge anyone to name an album that didn't have some top class material on it. Queen I was listed at the bottom of the ranking in the post above, but what about Liar? Every album has its merits. I think some albums have more gems than others (and conversely, some have more lows). I've always felt there were pairs of albums which would have worked better if they had been put together and the best of both released as one album. The three main examples I can think of are: (1) Take the best of NOTW and Jazz and put them out together, and release the other tracks as non-album b-sides. (2) Take the better parts of Hot Space and add them to The Works, demoting Windows and MOTP to b-sides (3) Take the five singles from The Miracle, add Was It All Worth It, and add that to Innuendo after removing Delilah and Don't Try So Hard. Best 80 minute album ever!! The other suggestion I'd throw out there is to take the best of AKOM and add Queen versions of some of the solo material that was being written around that time. I think these would make much stronger albums overall. That's not to say I don't appreciate the volume of material the band produced. I like a lot of the throw-away songs on NOTW and Jazz - they just don't add to the album overall. |
| redspecialusa 11.03.2009 23:02 |
The Works...by far is their worst album! I hate 80's synthesizers, sequencers, & drum machines!! |
| inu-liger 12.03.2009 05:35 |
Hot Space by far. |
| JoxerTheDeityPirate 12.03.2009 06:05 |
The Miracle hasnt aged very well in the last 20 years.. |
| N0_Camping4U 12.03.2009 09:44 |
Jazz. ugh. |
| louvox 12.03.2009 10:47 |
[listo] [li]A kind of magic – A total bore. By far their worst effort. Contains two of their all time worst songs (One year of love & Pain is so close to pleasure) [li]The works – Uninspired, flat & sterile. There is nothing worse than when an artist rips themselves off.Hot [li]Space – At least they tried something different, but the result ended up being a bunch funk/disco/techno weak songs recorded with no soul, inspiration & imagination. [/listo] |
| march of the black queen 12.03.2009 11:47 |
all the 80s especially hot space.... |
| mike hunt 12.03.2009 12:17 |
Queens debut was one of rocks best, Jazz was also good. Queens worst?...the miracle is probably my least favorite, though even that one has 5 great songs. |
| thequeen 12.03.2009 12:23 |
Wich is something that CAN'T be said for The Cosmos Rocks ....ah , that's not Queen right ? Brian & Roger we're never in Queen, and have nothing to do with Queen - if I have to go by some Q+PR's fans logic [img=/images/smiley/msn/omg_smile.gif][/img] |
| Bo Alex 12.03.2009 12:46 |
Hot Space. But I think The Works and A Kind Of Magic are weak too (some good songs, like Princes Of The Universe and the classic hits, but not enogh). |
| Amazon 12.03.2009 12:56 |
For me it would be the Miracle. Many people pick Hot Space, but I quite like that album (Dancer is a guilty pleasure.) The Miracle has one great song (I Want It All) and a few other good to really good songs, but all in all, I think it was Queen's weakest studio album. |
| lalaalalaa 12.03.2009 16:36 |
I don't understand why people hate the Miracle, it's my favorite Queen album of the 80s. My least favorite, you may ask? The Game (sounds incomplete to me) |
| April 12.03.2009 17:30 |
The Miracle is very good. To my mind the worst is Jazz. |
| doxonrox 12.03.2009 22:18 |
For those of you that hate Jazz, i think the production might be getting in your way. Don't Stop Me Now makes the album a keeper, and while it wasn't a prime album, the band was in its prime at the time. The Miracle and Hot Space are embarrassing to listen to. |
| lalaalalaa 12.03.2009 23:06 |
I love Roger Taylor's drumming on the Jazz album. It made it very special. ;) |
| A_WintersTale 13.03.2009 08:50 |
"Queen Rocks" - a terrible commercial thing! |
| mike hunt 13.03.2009 13:06 |
hot space is a guilty pleasure for me, I personally like the album. No Queen album is embarrassing to listen to, what over dramatic crap from a young idiot. |
| emma246000 14.03.2009 09:53 |
Its "Hot Space" for me |
| thequeen 14.03.2009 13:41 |
The Works , despite some very good songs - it feels short and the running order of the songs doesn't work for me. |
| Bo Rhap 14.03.2009 17:40 |
Sorry its gotta be Hot Space.Apart from Las Palabras de Amor and Under Pressure.The rest is shite.Including the cringeworthy Put Out The Fire in which the absolutely cringeworthy lyrics"You know a gun never killed nobody.You can ask anyone.People get shot by people.People with guns" |
| AmeriQueen 14.03.2009 18:15 |
First off, Flash Gordon rules! The worst if you count all Queen related material is probably one of the albums by The Cross. If just the name, than Cosmos Rocks. But of all true Queen I'd go with The Works probably. |
| littlekillerham 30.03.2009 21:01 |
Gee, thats hard.......probably made in heaven, didnt have much to work with. |
| steven 35638 30.03.2009 22:38 |
I don't consider any Queen album lesser than another. To me, Queen were, and still are to some extent, an experimental rock band. Freddie said it himself that he could never stick to just one genre or style. Their music constantly changed, and so did the style of recording their albums -- for example, News of the World sounded spectacular, but Jazz sounded inferior. They kept changing their formula, because they probably didn't want to become bored, or appeal to their audience in that matter. That being said, I don't rate any album as worse than another -- but I will say which ones I consider to be their most impressive and stunning (Innuendo, A Night at the Opera, and A Day at the Races). |
| Yara 30.03.2009 22:47 |
Steven wrote: I don't consider any Queen album lesser than another. To me, Queen were, and still are to some extent, an experimental rock band. Freddie said it himself that he could never stick to just one genre or style. Their music constantly changed, and so did the style of recording their albums -- for example, News of the World sounded spectacular, but Jazz sounded inferior. They kept changing their formula, because they probably didn't want to become bored, or appeal to their audience in that matter. That being said, I don't rate any album as worse than another -- but I will say which ones I consider to be their most impressive and stunning (Innuendo, A Night at the Opera, and A Day at the Races). I'm very sympathetic to this view. Good remarks. |
| ITSM 31.03.2009 10:24 |
A Kind of Magic. But I like Pain is so close to pleasure and Don't lose your head. |
| mric! 31.03.2009 14:59 |
Live Magic, if you consider live record : it's a mess ! |
| LucTonnerre 31.03.2009 15:30 |
Worst must be MADE IN HEAVEN. Simply a disgrace. For me every album until THE GAME had not a single filler. From then one, I disliked songs. BODY LANGUAGE for example - just teribble. What's that JAZZ hating about? It's such a good album. Every song is amazing and the variety is pretty wide. |
| aion 31.03.2009 16:21 |
The Miracle was their best album of the 80s, I don't know why anyone would say it's their worst. But A Kind of Magic is very weak... a short album that's loaded with filler. Same is true of The Works too - both albums had four good singles but most of the rest of the material is sub-par. |
| Bigfish 01.04.2009 07:32 |
A KIND OF MAGIC... After the triumph of Live Aid the year before; A Kind of Magic could be regarded as an opportunity missed to consolidate their position as the best band in the world. I am not a massive fan of alot of Queens 80's output and this Album represents the Nadir. Firstly it's a very uneven listening experience. It includes songs from the HIGHLANDER movie which make some of the songs thematic and others not. 'Pain is so close to pleasure would have found a better home on one of Freds solo outings and the production is popcorn 80's at it's worst. 'One year of love' is a nice song but suffers from an overwrought vocal which ruins it. 'Princes of the Universe' has all the great epic trademarks of years gone by but somebody forgot to write a song. Ditto; 'Don't lose your head' but without the epic trademarks. 'Friends will be friends' is almost offensive; Mawkish sentimental lighter waving at it's worst - they nearly lost me with that, "friends will be friends - right til the end" - yeah, so is a cup of tea. Terrible lyrics. It's not all bad news, 'One Vision is easily one of their best 80's rock moments and was justifiably chosen as the show opener on the Magic tour and 'A kind of magic' is a great strident pop song with wonderful guitar work from Brian May. I hope no one's offended. Much sooner talk about my favourite but you did ask........ |
| Bigfish 01.04.2009 07:36 |
A KIND OF MAGIC... After the triumph of Live Aid the year before; A Kind of Magic could be regarded as an opportunity missed to consolidate their position as the best band in the world. I am not a massive fan of alot of Queens 80's output and this Album represents the Nadir. Firstly it's a very uneven listening experience. It includes songs from the HIGHLANDER movie which make some of the songs thematic and others not. 'Pain is so close to pleasure would have found a better home on one of Freds solo outings and the production is popcorn 80's at it's worst. 'One year of love' is a nice song but suffers from an overwrought vocal which ruins it. 'Princes of the Universe' has all the great epic trademarks of years gone by but somebody forgot to write a song. Ditto; 'Don't lose your head' but without the epic trademarks. 'Friends will be friends' is almost offensive; Mawkish sentimental lighter waving at it's worst - they nearly lost me with that, "friends will be friends - right til the end" - yeah, so is a cup of tea. Terrible lyrics. It's not all bad news, 'One Vision is easily one of their best 80's rock moments and was justifiably chosen as the show opener on the Magic tour and 'A kind of magic' is a great strident pop song with wonderful guitar work from Brian May. I hope no one's offended. Much sooner talk about my favourite but you did ask........ |
| aion 01.04.2009 08:33 |
Bigfish wrote: A KIND OF MAGIC... After the triumph of Live Aid the year before; A Kind of Magic could be regarded as an opportunity missed to consolidate their position as the best band in the world. I am not a massive fan of alot of Queens 80's output and this Album represents the Nadir. Firstly it's a very uneven listening experience. It includes songs from the HIGHLANDER movie which make some of the songs thematic and others not. 'Pain is so close to pleasure would have found a better home on one of Freds solo outings and the production is popcorn 80's at it's worst. 'One year of love' is a nice song but suffers from an overwrought vocal which ruins it. 'Princes of the Universe' has all the great epic trademarks of years gone by but somebody forgot to write a song. Ditto; 'Don't lose your head' but without the epic trademarks. 'Friends will be friends' is almost offensive; Mawkish sentimental lighter waving at it's worst - they nearly lost me with that, "friends will be friends - right til the end" - yeah, so is a cup of tea. Terrible lyrics. It's not all bad news, 'One Vision is easily one of their best 80's rock moments and was justifiably chosen as the show opener on the Magic tour and 'A kind of magic' is a great strident pop song with wonderful guitar work from Brian May. I hope no one's offended. Much sooner talk about my favourite but you did ask........ I agree with you. Don't Lose Your Head and Gimme The Prize are as filler as it gets, absolutely unnecessary "songs" that they put in there just because they didn't have anything else... I also think that the fact that they needed to include One Vision on the album, the Live Aid track that they recorded and released months before the actual album sessions, proves that they were writing very little at this time. They got barely enough material from the A Kind of Magic sessions for a short EP, AKOM is just thinly disguised as an album. The Works is also a too short album and uneven, but not as much as Magic. IMO Hot Space is stronger than Magic, and The Miracle still much better. |
| paulosham 01.04.2009 17:59 |
Steven wrote:
I don't consider any Queen album lesser than another. To me, Queen were, and still are to some extent, an experimental rock band. Freddie said it himself that he could never stick to just one genre or style. Their music constantly changed, and so did the style of recording their albums -- for example, News of the World sounded spectacular, but Jazz sounded inferior. They kept changing their formula, because they probably didn't want to become bored, or appeal to their audience in that matter. That being said, I don't rate any album as worse than another -- but I will say which ones I consider to be their most impressive and stunning
(Innuendo, A Night at the Opera, and A Day at the Races).
You've obviously never listen to Frank Zappa, that's experimental. For me Hot Space is the weakest purely on a production basis, the sound is flat and some songs that should work really well just don't. but that's only my opinion, I know people who love it. |
| Yara 01.04.2009 22:57 |
paulsmith2001 wrote: Steven wrote: I don't consider any Queen album lesser than another. To me, Queen were, and still are to some extent, an experimental rock band. Freddie said it himself that he could never stick to just one genre or style. Their music constantly changed, and so did the style of recording their albums -- for example, News of the World sounded spectacular, but Jazz sounded inferior. They kept changing their formula, because they probably didn't want to become bored, or appeal to their audience in that matter. That being said, I don't rate any album as worse than another -- but I will say which ones I consider to be their most impressive and stunning (Innuendo, A Night at the Opera, and A Day at the Races). paulsmith2001 wrote: You've obviously never listen to Frank Zappa, that's experimental. For me Hot Space is the weakest purely on a production basis, the sound is flat and some songs that should work really well just don't. but that's only my opinion, I know people who love it. Hi, Paul. Hope you're doing fine. It was great to read you mention Zappa. I have been listening to and playing Zappa ever since I was kid, and it's hardly a mistery why things happend this way: father's influence. Indeed, I agree with you: Zappa's music is very interesting and engaging and it's one of popular music's great gifts. His expectional talent and great musical insight, however, don't need necessarily to overshadow Queen's effors in the same vein, but using other references and breaking some new ground whenever possible while managing to play to huge audiences and hold their position as one of the most popular rock bands ever, which penned beautiful, in many ways original songs known all over the world. As far as experimentation goes, well, I think Zappa took it to a higher degree. But Queen, in its own way, and within its context, were always willing to, as Freddie says before the great introduction to Staying Power at Milton Keynes, "try some new sounds". I think that was as true as risky - they did abitous albums with a lot of constraints on the budget, tried different things when they could just keep feeding the fans wth the same clichés, and most importantly, managed to bring with a vengeance and a lot of power to the stage a kind of music that, at the time, was more suitable for smaller venues or clubs. Queen took the sound of Hot Space, which is in part a different beast from other albums labeled under the "funk" - "disco" and "r & b" categories back then. They, in my most humble opinion, successfully blended elements from all these style and added a mark of their own, turning the abum into an interesting, coherent and very influencial musical framework. Then again, if that was not enough, they brought all these sounds to stage and big venues, and with the sheer power of Queen's performances: that was risky and required a lot of music intelligence from the guys, and they did it, they pulled it off and were quite influential in doing so - for many artists afterwards the thought of bringing that kind of music to stage with so much power and quality was not a dream or a phantasy or even an inconceivable move anymore - it was real, it could happen and it was a kind of sound that could be developed both in studio and live. That was encouraging to many artists. Yes, I love the album. :))) Taste is very idyossincratic - I manage to like Hot Space and Zappa and give Queen and Zappa the credit they deserve in my view. These strange liasons occur to me as coherent as possible. :op I think, however, that there's wisdom in the consensus, and according to it Hot Space is indeed a failure, an embarassment or simply Queen's worst album. You say it's "your opinion", as if it were something isolated or irrelevant. No! It is very important because it does embody a wisdom in it: the album does have its share of flaws and imperfections and it runs on a very thin conceptual line, which was not familiar to Queen, that it's bound to draw negative reactions. There are solid, legitmate reasons for disliking Hot Space - it's a very tentative album in some ways, the guy's patience, most of all Freddie's to work in the studio was not that great... It suffered from many flaws, as you said. Though, what can I do, I like this bloody flawed piece of music. :))) Thanks for the post! Best regards. |
| jadedlady 01.04.2009 23:08 |
I don't think there is a worst album [img=/images/smiley/msn/wink_smile.gif][/img] . |
| Bigfish 02.04.2009 07:42 |
Sorry won't hear a word against HOT SPACE. Commercial suicide in the US but very brave and,yes, EXPERIMENTAL. Also, sentimental fool that I am, I was at Milton Keynes and it was my first Queen show so I'll always be fond of it - it reminds me of a fantastic day.... |
| lalaalalaa 07.04.2009 08:18 |
aion wrote:Bigfish wrote: A KIND OF MAGIC... After the triumph of Live Aid the year before; A Kind of Magic could be regarded as an opportunity missed to consolidate their position as the best band in the world. I am not a massive fan of alot of Queens 80's output and this Album represents the Nadir. Firstly it's a very uneven listening experience. It includes songs from the HIGHLANDER movie which make some of the songs thematic and others not. 'Pain is so close to pleasure would have found a better home on one of Freds solo outings and the production is popcorn 80's at it's worst. 'One year of love' is a nice song but suffers from an overwrought vocal which ruins it. 'Princes of the Universe' has all the great epic trademarks of years gone by but somebody forgot to write a song. Ditto; 'Don't lose your head' but without the epic trademarks. 'Friends will be friends' is almost offensive; Mawkish sentimental lighter waving at it's worst - they nearly lost me with that, "friends will be friends - right til the end" - yeah, so is a cup of tea. Terrible lyrics. It's not all bad news, 'One Vision is easily one of their best 80's rock moments and was justifiably chosen as the show opener on the Magic tour and 'A kind of magic' is a great strident pop song with wonderful guitar work from Brian May. I hope no one's offended. Much sooner talk about my favourite but you did ask........I agree with you. Don't Lose Your Head and Gimme The Prize are as filler as it gets, absolutely unnecessary "songs" that they put in there just because they didn't have anything else... I also think that the fact that they needed to include One Vision on the album, the Live Aid track that they recorded and released months before the actual album sessions, proves that they were writing very little at this time. They got barely enough material from the A Kind of Magic sessions for a short EP, AKOM is just thinly disguised as an album. The Works is also a too short album and uneven, but not as much as Magic. IMO Hot Space is stronger than Magic, and The Miracle still much better. Well actually they DID have plenty of songs to choose from, like Hangman, Silver Salmon, Mad the Swine, I Go Crazy, and other songs they completely abandoned. |
| aion 07.04.2009 10:36 |
lalaalalaa wrote:aion wrote:Well actually they DID have plenty of songs to choose from, like Hangman, Silver Salmon, Mad the Swine, I Go Crazy, and other songs they completely abandoned.Bigfish wrote: A KIND OF MAGIC... After the triumph of Live Aid the year before; A Kind of Magic could be regarded as an opportunity missed to consolidate their position as the best band in the world. I am not a massive fan of alot of Queens 80's output and this Album represents the Nadir. Firstly it's a very uneven listening experience. It includes songs from the HIGHLANDER movie which make some of the songs thematic and others not. 'Pain is so close to pleasure would have found a better home on one of Freds solo outings and the production is popcorn 80's at it's worst. 'One year of love' is a nice song but suffers from an overwrought vocal which ruins it. 'Princes of the Universe' has all the great epic trademarks of years gone by but somebody forgot to write a song. Ditto; 'Don't lose your head' but without the epic trademarks. 'Friends will be friends' is almost offensive; Mawkish sentimental lighter waving at it's worst - they nearly lost me with that, "friends will be friends - right til the end" - yeah, so is a cup of tea. Terrible lyrics. It's not all bad news, 'One Vision is easily one of their best 80's rock moments and was justifiably chosen as the show opener on the Magic tour and 'A kind of magic' is a great strident pop song with wonderful guitar work from Brian May. I hope no one's offended. Much sooner talk about my favourite but you did ask........I agree with you. Don't Lose Your Head and Gimme The Prize are as filler as it gets, absolutely unnecessary "songs" that they put in there just because they didn't have anything else... I also think that the fact that they needed to include One Vision on the album, the Live Aid track that they recorded and released months before the actual album sessions, proves that they were writing very little at this time. They got barely enough material from the A Kind of Magic sessions for a short EP, AKOM is just thinly disguised as an album. The Works is also a too short album and uneven, but not as much as Magic. IMO Hot Space is stronger than Magic, and The Miracle still much better. None of those songs are from the A Kind of Magic sessions. |
| Yara 07.04.2009 12:00 |
Bigfish wrote: .... 'Friends will be friends' is almost offensive; Mawkish sentimental lighter waving at it's worst - they nearly lost me with that, "friends will be friends - right til the end" - yeah, so is a cup of tea. Terrible lyrics. Hahaha. "Friends will be friends' is almost offensive" is a candidate for my quote, I don't have one below my name yet. :)) Come on, the lyrics are cute, try not to think about lighter waving or a friendly fire, so to speak.... Think about a dear friend, or someone you still feel close to, and let yourself go in the sound waves of the heartbreaking theme. lol [The things I do for Queen's sake!] |
| lalaalalaa 07.04.2009 15:53 |
aion wrote:lalaalalaa wrote:None of those songs are from the A Kind of Magic sessions.aion wrote:Well actually they DID have plenty of songs to choose from, like Hangman, Silver Salmon, Mad the Swine, I Go Crazy, and other songs they completely abandoned.Bigfish wrote: A KIND OF MAGIC... After the triumph of Live Aid the year before; A Kind of Magic could be regarded as an opportunity missed to consolidate their position as the best band in the world. I am not a massive fan of alot of Queens 80's output and this Album represents the Nadir. Firstly it's a very uneven listening experience. It includes songs from the HIGHLANDER movie which make some of the songs thematic and others not. 'Pain is so close to pleasure would have found a better home on one of Freds solo outings and the production is popcorn 80's at it's worst. 'One year of love' is a nice song but suffers from an overwrought vocal which ruins it. 'Princes of the Universe' has all the great epic trademarks of years gone by but somebody forgot to write a song. Ditto; 'Don't lose your head' but without the epic trademarks. 'Friends will be friends' is almost offensive; Mawkish sentimental lighter waving at it's worst - they nearly lost me with that, "friends will be friends - right til the end" - yeah, so is a cup of tea. Terrible lyrics. It's not all bad news, 'One Vision is easily one of their best 80's rock moments and was justifiably chosen as the show opener on the Magic tour and 'A kind of magic' is a great strident pop song with wonderful guitar work from Brian May. I hope no one's offended. Much sooner talk about my favourite but you did ask........I agree with you. Don't Lose Your Head and Gimme The Prize are as filler as it gets, absolutely unnecessary "songs" that they put in there just because they didn't have anything else... I also think that the fact that they needed to include One Vision on the album, the Live Aid track that they recorded and released months before the actual album sessions, proves that they were writing very little at this time. They got barely enough material from the A Kind of Magic sessions for a short EP, AKOM is just thinly disguised as an album. The Works is also a too short album and uneven, but not as much as Magic. IMO Hot Space is stronger than Magic, and The Miracle still much better. But they could have redone the songs for the sessions if they wanted. But unfortunately they didn't. |
| FriedChicken 08.04.2009 09:43 |
Jazz |
| Rubbersuit 08.04.2009 11:41 |
The Miracle for me This was the first LP that Queen did that felt like a formula. For some reason to me it felt more like corporate product than art. Maybe it has all to do with me and how I felt at the time, but I remember being deeply dissatisfied and it has never grown on me. |
| We Are The Champions 11.04.2009 11:13 |
Rubbersuit wrote: The Miracle for me This was the first LP that Queen did that felt like a formula. For some reason to me it felt more like corporate product than art. Maybe it has all to do with me and how I felt at the time, but I remember being deeply dissatisfied and it has never grown on me. I guess when you are discussing their worst album it about what style and era the albums were released!! For me all their 70's albums are great - when they were more of an albums band and only released 2 tracks from each album. They then became a commercialised singles band in the 80's with more fillers on the albums. The worst albums have to be from the 80's with the exeption of Innuendo. 1. Hot Space 2. A Kind Of Magic 3. The Works 4. The Game 5. The Miracle There you have it. |
| Major Tom 11.04.2009 15:04 |
The Works and The Miracle. Actually, I think most of the stuff they did in the mid-80s is shit. Too much synths and drummachines. A Kind Of Magic aswell, though I think that it has more "highlights" than the other two. |
| Bigfish 16.04.2009 06:22 |
Err no Yara. If I want to think about friends I have Carole King. |
| Bigfish 16.04.2009 11:19 |
Yep, Jazz is one of the best albums. |
| comingsoonkid 30.05.2009 04:02 |
I think made in heaven is the worst. people say its moving... moving??? I just think its boring... appart from that all their other albums are good... |
| Amazon 30.05.2009 07:35 |
comingsoonkid wrote: I think made in heaven is the worst. people say its moving... moving??? I just think its boring... appart from that all their other albums are good... I think it's extremely moving. TMLWKY, Heaven For Everyone, Mother Love, the title track, It's a Beautiful Day. Not to mention Let Me Live, and I think it's a masterpiece. I really love this album, and it always amazes me when people attack it. Ah well, that's life. |
| SaskQueenFan 31.05.2009 10:44 |
No doubt about it.. Hot Space... |