QueenZone discussion #1152766

Panchgani wrote: One friendly India, that I found to be hilarious, jokingly commented that Americans are too sensitive about terrorism.  He joked that Americans will invade a country when a few buildings on American soil are bombed (i.e. 9/11), but in India weekly terrorism in India is no big deal.

Panchgani wrote: One friendly India, that I found to be hilarious, jokingly commented that Americans are too sensitive about terrorism.  He joked that Americans will invade a country when a few buildings on American soil are bombed (i.e. 9/11), but in India weekly terrorism in India is no big deal.

  Lester Burnham wrote:  

      Panchgani wrote:   One friendly India, that I found to be hilarious, jokingly commented that Americans are too sensitive about terrorism.  He joked that Americans will invade a country when a few buildings on American soil are bombed (i.e. 9/11), but in India weekly terrorism in India is no big deal.  

Hoohoo, that "friendly India[n]" is a regular cut-up! Haha, 9/11, what a laugh! Almost 3,000 people killed?! Does the comedy ever stop?!?! Take my wife, PLEASE!

magicalfreddiemercury wrote:  just a week ago in India, a 15-year-old boy was beaten by an angry mob, had his head shaved by them and, bloodied and weeping, was paraded through a town. His mother was heard screaming for mercy and pleading for her son's life but instead of showing that mercy, that mob threw the boy onto the tracks just as a train came by. The mother watched as her child was crushed and killed. Why did this happen? Because that boy dared to write a love letter to a girl in a higher caste.  That horror was explained away as a normal occurrence in India. To me, it was unfathomable and inexcusable. Though I forget, as an American, I must be too sensitive about normal weekly occurrences in other countries. 

Panchgani wrote: So considering that terrorism is about 7 times more lethal in India than it is in the US, I believe it is understandable that some Indians easily dismiss the US invasion of Afghanistan (in reaction to 9/11). http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/index.html

I've also heard many "Hadith" which reference forceful conversion and circumcision of conquered "infidels"

Saif wrote: Yeah, you see, this is EXACTLY why I FUCKING HATE Muslims.

Saif wrote: Yeah, you see, this is EXACTLY why I FUCKING HATE Muslims....

AspiringPhilosophe wrote: I beg to differ, Saif.  Islam is not a hateful religion.  If it is, then so is Christianity and Judaisim.  The actions that you speak of as being evidence of the hate inside of Islam are the same actions committed by Christians and Jews over the centuries since the development of the religions.  Sure there are passages in the Koran that sanction murder and other unspeakable crimes against humanity.  But the same passages can be found in Jewish and Christian holy books, particularly the Old Testament of the Bible.  The question isn't of what the text says, but how they are viewed.  There are two ways to look at a holy text:  Literally and Metaphorically.  Those who take the text literally (referred to as fundamentalists) insist that the text means exactly what it says, it should not attempt to be interpreted because interpretation breeds corruption.  These are the people who point to the passages that speak to violence, murder, killing and slavery (among others) as being literal prescriptions for the faithful to follow.  They are the ones who commit these acts of violence, saying that the holy text says they can do it.  However, except for the noisy and destructive and violent minority, this does not classify the religion.  Judaism, Christianity and Islam have adopted the view that the holy texts are more like guidelines that shouldn't be taken literally because they were the product of the people of the time they were written, and society has advanced considerably since their authorship.  Christians today don't sell their daughters into slavery or kill their sons for disobeying them (as sanctioned in the Old Testament), and the majority of Muslims don't kills others who refuse to believe as they do.  The noisy, violent minority do not represent the religion.  Don't make the mistake of thinking that they do, or all you are doing is perpetuating the hate.   

Saif Bohemian: 666 posts

Islam is not a hateful religion.  If it is, then so is Christianity and Judaisim.

Mon, Jul 20 02:53 PM Mumbai, July 20 (IANS) In a dramatic twist in the ongoing 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks trial, Pakistani terrorist Mohammed Ajmal Amir alias Kasab Monday confessed to his role in carrying out the Mumbai terror attacks which left 180 persons dead and over 300 injured. 'This is a victory of truth and the confession came all of a sudden in the special court,' said special public prosecutor Ujjwal Nikam. Nikam also said that Kasab made the confession after discussing the issue with his government appointed lawyer S.G. Abbas Kazmi. Kasab also admitted that he is a Pakistani national and recounted in detail how he and his associates undertook the sea voyage from Karachi to Mumbai to strike at 13 locations here. His confession, which was made before Special Judge M.L. Tahilyani, also included details of his role in the attacks on Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST). He also revealed before the stunned courtroom names of his Pakistani handlers, including Abu Hamza, Abu Jindal, Abu Kafa and Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, who saw them off when they boarded a ship at Karachi. Hamza advised them how to go about the terror attacks, how he placed one bomb in a taxi (which later exploded at Mazagaon, a south Mumbai area) and how the 10-member team of which he was sole survivor went about their mission. Naming Lakhvi as 'the mastermind' behind the Mumbai terror mayhem, Kasab described in detail how he and his associate Abu Ismail (who was shot by the police) went to a CST public toilet and assembled one of the bombs by installing a timer in it for use later. He said that the entire journey from Karachi to Mumbai was completed in four different boats at various locations in the Arabian Sea. Finally, they landed on the evening of Nov 26 last year and carried out one of the biggest and boldest terror attacks in the country.

AspiringPhilosophe wrote: I beg to differ, Saif.  Islam is not a hateful religion.  If it is, then so is Christianity and Judaisim.  The actions that you speak of as being evidence of the hate inside of Islam are the same actions committed by Christians and Jews over the centuries since the development of the religions. 

JoxerTheDeityPirate wrote: im still waiting for the day when a Buddhist blows himself up in a shopping mall and whoever said that Islam is the most violent religion in the world today obviously doesnt live in Ulster/Northern Ireland,they kill each other just for wearing an orange sash or playing the flute there..

JoxerTheDeityPirate wrote: im still waiting for the day when a Buddhist blows himself up in a shopping mall

Saif wrote: And we all know what a tyrant and paedophile Muhammad

ParisNair wrote:

JoxerTheDeityPirate wrote: im still waiting for the day when a Buddhist blows himself up in a shopping mall

Obviously you haven't heard of the Japan subway bombings of the 1990s.

ParisNair wrote:

Saif wrote: And we all know what a tyrant and paedophile Muhammad

I hadn't heard about that and I just checked it out. Married a 6 year old and slept with her when she was 9, and he was in his 50s at the time? Shocking indeed.

ThomasQuinn wrote:

  ParisNair wrote:  

      JoxerTheDeityPirate wrote: im still waiting for the day when a Buddhist blows himself up in a shopping mall      

Obviously you haven't heard of the Japan subway bombings of the 1990s.

They weren't buddhists, but some crazy-assed cult. As related to Buddhism as Branch-Davidians were to Christianity.

PUNE: After nearly four years, Ajmal Kasab, the sole surviving Pakistani gunman involved in the Mumbai attacks, was hanged to death at the Yerawada central prison here this morning in a top-secret operation. Kasab was buried inside the premises of Pune's Yerawada Central Jail shortly after he was hanged, Maharashtra chief minister Prithviraj Chavan said. "Ajmal Kasab was hanged at 7.30am," Maharashtra home minister R R Patil said in Mumbai shortly after the hanging. Pakistan government was kept informed about the execution. The execution in the Mumbai attack trial brought closure to many in the audacious strike by 10 terrorists of Pakistan-based terror outfit Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) in which 166 people were killed. Nine LeT men were killed during the 60-hour siege which began on the night of November 26, 2008. The prison authorities remained tight-lipped about the details of hanging performed in a well-guarded secret operation amid reports that Kasab did not have any death wish. Kasab was executed after he exhausted all legal remedies available to escape the noose with President Pranab Mukherjee rejecting his mercy plea following the advice of the Union home ministry. Inspector general of Prisons (Maharashtra) Meeran Borwankar refused to respond media queries on the execution of Kasab. There was, however, no official word or briefing by the jail authorities on the last rites of the hanged convict. Union home minister Sushil Kumar Shinde said Pakistan was informed about the execution of Kasab. "With the execution of Kasab, we have completed the judicial procedure of 26/11 case." Shinde said in Delhi. The Indian High Commission in Islamabad informed Pakistan government about Kasab's hanging through letter, he said, adding Pakistan refused to take the letter, which was then sent through fax. External affairs minister Salman Khurshid said the obligation of keeping Pakistan informed about the hanging was fulfilled. Special Public Prosecutor Ujjwal Nikam, who appeared for police in the case said the hanging is a "victory" for the country. "Due process of law has been followed," Patil said, adding that hanging was carried out after President Mukherjee rejected Kasab's mercy petition on November 8. He said Kasab did not have any death wish. "This is a true homage to the innocent victims, including policemen and security personnel, who laid down their lives," he said. "Attack on Mumbai was an attack on the entire country," Patil said. "I do not think there will be any trouble (if Kasab is buried in India) because India has suffered too much and everyone.... and this country has seen the tragedy. 166 people were killed after there days fight against humanity," he said. Khurshid said India did not get any request from Pakistan for handing over the body of Kasab. Nikam said by hanging Kasab the country has paid homage to all those policemen and innocent persons who lost their lives. "By Kasab's conviction and death penalty, we have proved how the entire conspiracy was hatched in Pakistan. We have set an example that India will not tolerate such attacks and the accused will be brought to justice," Nikam told reporters in Mumbai. Nikam appeared for the prosecution in the sessions court and High Court and assisted senior counsel Gopal Subramanium in the apex court. A group of Shiv Sena workers raised slogans 'Vande Mataram' slogans outside the Yerawada jail hailing the hanging of Kasab and demanded that simialr justice be meted out to Parliament attack case death row convict Afzal Guru. Kasab had been lodged in the Arthur Jail Road in Mumbai ever since he was arrested immediately after the attack in 2008. He was convicted and given capital punishment by the trial court on May 6, 2010 which was upheld by the Bombay High Court on February 21, 2011. The Supreme Court subsequently upheld the sentence on August 29 this year. Kasab and the other gunmen entered Mumbai by boat on November 26, 2008. Carrying mobile phones, hand grenades and automatic weapons, they fanned out across Mumbai targeting luxury hotels Taj Mahal and Oberoi Trident, a Jewish centre Chabad House and the city's main train station Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus(CST). (With inputs from PTI)

thomasquinn 32989 wrote: So, you're reviving a three-and-a-half year old topic to post a news article? That is pretty disturbing. About as disturbing as the fact that India does not want to be part of the civilized world and maintains the death penalty.

ParisNair wrote:

thomasquinn 32989 wrote: So, you're reviving a three-and-a-half year old topic to post a news article? That is pretty disturbing. About as disturbing as the fact that India does not want to be part of the civilized world and maintains the death penalty.

The news article was posted in this thread because it is related to the topic of discussion. The person who was hanged was the same (and only) terrorist caught alive during the terrorist attack in Mumbai for which this thread was created. I personally donot understand what's wrong with capital punshment for someone who's a mass murderer. hat someone is not a serial killer. He's not a psycho. He's not a prisoner of war. But a well trained, well armed person who enters a crowded railway station at peak hour and starts shooting iniscriminately at people who are in a rush to get home from their place of work. If that makes me uncivilized, then I think its people like you who are a real danger to civilization and "humanity".

thomasquinn 32989 wrote: If you think retribution is worth killing for, then you are a sick person. No one has any right to take anyone's life. If you disagree, you are just wrong - this is not something that is open for debate. You can hurl all the freaky insults you like, that still doesn't make you right.

Panchgani wrote: Thanks for the update, Paris ... and pay no heed to those incapable of civilized discourse.

ParisNair wrote:

thomasquinn 32989 wrote: If you think retribution is worth killing for, then you are a sick person. No one has any right to take anyone's life. If you disagree, you are just wrong - this is not something that is open for debate. You can hurl all the freaky insults you like, that still doesn't make you right.

No one has any right to take anyone's life - say's who? the law of the land prevails. the court called this the rarest or rare cases. and ofcourse capital punishment IS open for debate, and that's why the whole world is debating it. why do you keep posting (insults and such) when you don't really have an arguement? its really a habit with you....

ParisNair wrote: I personally donot understand what's wrong with capital punshment for someone who's a mass murderer. hat someone is not a serial killer. He's not a psycho. He's not a prisoner of war. But a well trained, well armed person who enters a crowded railway station at peak hour and starts shooting iniscriminately at people who are in a rush to get home from their place of work.

Holly2003 wrote: I'm no expert but as far as I can see, UHDR doesn't outlaw the death penalty. In fact, it doesn't say anything about the death penalty. It does say "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person" but that by itself doesn't mean everyone has the absolute right to life, otherwise soldiers would be commiting murder every time they killed another soldier or policemen would be commiting murder when they kill an armed criminal, or women/doctors are murderers when thay have abortions. See: link

thomasquinn 32989 wrote: International jurisprudence considers this a ban on the death penalty - it was one of the main arguments in the abolition of the death penalty in European countries after 1948, and also in the writing of the treaties that formed the European Union, which prohibits its members from allowing the death penalty outside of military law during wartime.

Technically, your country is acting illegally by maintaining the death penalty, regardless of your opinion on the subject.

The second part of your statement is pretty outrageous, as there are countries that still maintain the death penalty that are debating abolishing it (like much of the United States), whereas there are no countries that do not have the death penalty that are debating re-instating it. In the civilized world, only marginal extremists are in favour of the death penalty, and to my knowledge no major political parties exist that seek to re-instate it.

European Union, which prohibits its members from allowing the death penalty outside of military law during wartime.

The Real Wizard wrote: The only problem is - what if they're wrong? The debate needs to move beyond people or countries being "civilized" vs "uncivilized." There are a lot of factors at play here. People are often wrongfully convicted and sit in jail for decades. No amount of money can give them their lives back. Sometimes they are forced to plead guilty as a plea bargain, and in more extreme cases they do so because they are tortured or are under fear of torture. And now and again these innocent people are executed. It costs a lot of money to incarcerate someone, which is a huge benefit of capital punishment. A lot of people are against the idea of paying to keep mentally sane mass murderers alive. But at the end of the day - there's almost always that 0.00001% chance that they may have the wrong guy. The problem with capital punishment is that it has been abused by the power-hungry vigilante justice types. Some parts of the US really aren't different from Iran. But it does seem like India has been incredibly selective in this case, as the country does not exercise this option very often.

thomasquinn 32989 wrote: "and ofcourse capital punishment IS open for debate, and that's why the whole world is debating it." No, it is not, because it has been outlawed by binding UN legislation (UDoHR).