| Valentine '90 20.11.2008 06:35 |
Hello I found 9 torrents in dimeadozen All of them are FLAC I downloaded them 100% for sure and now seeding If you have some of them, you may do not download them Concert inclided here: Tokyo, Japan - April 19 1975 AUD 1973-11-17 - Stark Remaster 1973-11-26 - Opera House, Manchester, England 1974-05-07 - Uris Theatre, New York, USA London 1973 Stockholm june 7 1986 2nd Gen February 17, 1981, Budokan, Tokyo, Japan Tokyo February 16, 1981, PrimeJive!(wardour) Boston July 23, 1982 (master) Tell me if it is ok |
| Valentine '90 20.11.2008 06:36 |
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| Valentine '90 20.11.2008 06:37 |
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| Valentine '90 20.11.2008 06:37 |
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| Valentine '90 20.11.2008 06:38 |
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| Valentine '90 20.11.2008 06:38 |
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| Valentine '90 20.11.2008 06:39 |
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| Valentine '90 20.11.2008 06:39 |
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| Valentine '90 20.11.2008 06:39 |
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| Valentine '90 20.11.2008 06:40 |
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| maggiko foka 20.11.2008 06:54 |
GRAZIE !!!! I cannot get a DIME account and always hope somebody poste the tracker elsewhere ThanXaloT Stefano |
| Valentine '90 20.11.2008 07:08 |
I have low account in dimeadozen Thats because I'm sharing concerts here Whan I will have good account, I will post my login and code But tell me, do they work???? I mean torrents |
| on my way up 20.11.2008 07:35 |
Did you leave the files and all the info as it was? And shouldn't you thank the people who uploaded it on dime and give proper information about the torrents in your first post? And have you people thought about why great torrents are first posted on dime and not here? |
| Jjeroen 20.11.2008 09:15 |
on my way up wrote: Did you leave the files and all the info as it was? And shouldn't you thank the people who uploaded it on dime and give proper information about the torrents in your first post? And have you people thought about why great torrents are first posted on dime and not here? --->I suggest you dive into the board and read all the discusions about MP3 versus lossless. You WILL find the answer there. Tapers are not very willing to post their recordings on forums like QZ were people still exchange MP3's. |
| The Real Wizard 20.11.2008 09:51 |
If a torrent is active on another site, they should NOT be posted somewhere else. It's a matter of etiquette. Valentine '90 wrote: >Tell me if it is ok No, it's not ok. "Sharing" implies that you made some kind of effort to find something new, and that you're the first person to bring it to the masses. Or, at least, the first person in a very long time to do so. Spending years tracking down old tapes, transferring them, making them presentable, and posting them online is sharing. What you're essentially doing is playing hero and putting your name on torrents that you did absolutely nothing to create in the first place. But these torrents won't work anyway, because they're on the Dime tracker, not Queenzone's. You need to be a Dime member to download them, as they keep track of your ratio and all that (not to mention the quality standards). This should clearly indicate why these things were shared there and not here in the first place. If not, then the question to begin with is, what does Dime have to offer that this place doesn't? How much longer will Queenzone hide under the moniker of "fan website", when it is actually the most prevalent Queen file sharing website? Is someone going to finally put their foot down to explain from day one the way things should work, to be beneficial for everyone? But when the sharing comes to a grinding halt, of course the collectors will be to blame for "not sharing"... |
| Valentine '90 20.11.2008 10:27 |
Ok, thanks, I will not share them here I will respect dimeadozen rules, the people, who shared them on dimeadozen and so Now I'll try to remove them from QZ |
| maggiko foka 20.11.2008 11:28 |
I think that making the torrent available outside of DIME, where is so hard to get an account, is sharing (i.e. making file available to others). Seems to me that Valentine was very clear about the origin of the torrent though i agree that maybe he should make even clearer the original posters and thank them. I hope the torrents will not be removed from QZ and that i'll be able to download them. GodSaveTheQueen Stefano |
| YourValentine 20.11.2008 11:57 |
Sir GH wrote: If a torrent is active on another site, they should NOT be posted somewhere else. It's a matter of etiquette. Valentine '90 wrote: >Tell me if it is ok No, it's not ok. "Sharing" implies that you made some kind of effort to find something new, and that you're the first person to bring it to the masses. Or, at least, the first person in a very long time to do so. Spending years tracking down old tapes, transferring them, making them presentable, and posting them online is sharing. What you're essentially doing is playing hero and putting your name on torrents that you did absolutely nothing to create in the first place. But these torrents won't work anyway, because they're on the Dime tracker, not Queenzone's. You need to be a Dime member to download them, as they keep track of your ratio and all that (not to mention the quality standards). This should clearly indicate why these things were shared there and not here in the first place. If not, then the question to begin with is, what does Dime have to offer that this place doesn't? How much longer will Queenzone hide under the moniker of "fan website", when it is actually the most prevalent Queen file sharing website? Is someone going to finally put their foot down to explain from day one the way things should work, to be beneficial for everyone? But when the sharing comes to a grinding halt, of course the collectors will be to blame for "not sharing"... Bob, you know I do not agree but that is not new :-) I do respect your point of view but we often have a very different perception of what is happening on this website. I certainly agree that Valentine 90's posting actual personalized Dime torrents here was not the best idea in terms of respect towards other websites. When I saw the thread I sent her (him?) a private message about the issue trying to explain the problem of such sharing. I am sure the intentions were good, though. About the not sharing of any Queen material - I do not agree. Just the recent tour has shown that people are very willing to share their original stuff on Queenzone because here on Queenzone you meet the fans who value that material. We got some amazing recordings from well known collectors who did not mind the least to post their recordings on Queenzone. We are all very grateful to them. It would have been impolite and cruel to tell other people they cannot post their mp3s, YouTube videos and whetever else was offered. Nobody is under any obligation to download the stuff while many fans are glad they get at least something from the concert they attended. I know that you will never approve of the website policy but that is the way Queenzone operates. I noticed that nobody attacked Richard when he posted mp3 recently (much to my surprise, to be honest, because he started the BitTorrent tracker to move past the mp3 format). I never spoke to the Dime people but QueenZone and the hub have no problem when previous QueenZone or hub shares appear on Dime and I never heard that Dime has a problem with Dime concerts being shared on QueenZone. Once a recording is out, you cannot contain it, anyway. (I am just having a deja vu)... Just yesterday I visited the Chilean forum, they discussed the sharing of the concert broadcast and they said: "look out for QueenZone, they always share everything" and that made me really happy:) People come here to share because they downloaded so much and are happy to give something back and I am totally proud of this community. I know that we have people who never share anything and download all the same while they keep criticising the website - many of them collectors - but nobody cares because in the big picture it's an ongoing giving and taking. All the weird characters on the website, the trolls and the leeches cannot alter this big picture - at least not for me :) |
| The Real Wizard 20.11.2008 14:07 |
>It would have been impolite and cruel to tell other people they cannot post their mp3s, YouTube videos and whetever else was offered Of course, but that's something completely different. These are recent recordings that, in the grand scheme of things, don't have much collectible value (dozens, or even hundreds of people record every show these days in one way or another). It's when a 30-year-old tape that took years to track down gets converted to mp3 (something that is completely avoidable) that it becomes a problem. It's like someone handling ancient papyrus with dirty hands, or taking a marker to a Picasso original. These documents of times past are often one of a kind. The least we can do is take care of them so they remain intact. Same goes for audio and video. >I noticed that nobody attacked Richard when he posted mp3 recently Who's going to attack the guy who runs the place? But yes, I was right pissed off about Chicago 78. I tracked down the taper myself and got the best possible version of it, I smoothed out the edits, and I shared it. All I (and the taper) asked is that the quality is maintained... not a difficult request. And then the operator of the website reshares it in mp3, along with two other shows, all with no lineage. What does this tell the wider collecting world about this place and how much we, as a whole, care about preserving the quality of old recordings? It says, loud and clear, that we don't give a damn. When things like this happen, people who do care about these things are more and more inclined to give up, and they continue to do so. These are the very people who are making the effort to find the tapes, transfer them, make them presentable, and finally spread them. But it all happens underground now... something that could easily be reversed if the right people did something about it. I won't even provide a list of the recently found tapes until things change here. >I never spoke to the Dime people ...which is exactly what's wrong with this discussion. You're arguing in favour of something but you don't understand what the alternative is because you haven't taken the initiative yourself to find out what it is, despite the fact that this is the umpteenth time I've spelled it out in clear and honest language. I can only suggest you do start talking to people over at Dime and wherever else, as you'll then realize that I'm far from being alone on this issue. Among these people are some of the ones who have tapes and refuse to liberate them because of what happens here. Spend some time PMing people, and you'll track down one of these tapers. Maybe then you'll know what it feels like to be told directly that recording X will never see the light of day. This feeling is only magnified when you've made the effort to track down other tapers (outside of the Queen community) in the past. >QueenZone and the hub have no problem when previous QueenZone or hub shares appear on Dime That's because these QZ and hub users aren't the ones who tracked down the tapes, so they have no reason to care about what's happening with them. >Once a recording is out, you cannot contain it Yes, in theory. But in practice, it's respectful to the people involved in the liberating of recording to acknowledge their work and wishes once it is out. >Just yesterday I visited the Chilean forum, they discussed the sharing of the concert broadcast and they said: "look out for QueenZone, they always share everything" and that made me really happy:) Yes, that makes me very happy too. But that is a completely different issue. But no, we don't share "everything" here. Far, far from it. Plenty of things don't get shared here, and probably never will. |
| YourValentine 20.11.2008 17:31 |
"I was right pissed off about Chicago 78. I tracked down the taper myself and got the best possible version of it, I smoothed out the edits, and I shared it... and then the operator of the website reshares it in mp3, along with two other shows, all with no lineage." Well, I did not download the mp3s, so I really do not know if the mp3s come from your edited version. Truth is that I already had a Chicago 78 master copy from another collector long before you shared yours on Queenzone. Even if you mastered it and improved it which I do not doubt at all and I am sure you did a fantastic job - that does not give you the right to act like you recorded or discovered the original recording and like you have a right to tell other people what they can do or cannot do. I am sure that Richard just picked some random concerts to test his new sharing function. It was about a website test and not about sharing a well known concert that has been on Queenzone various times. Plus he is not the operator of Queenzone, he is the owner and founder of Queenzone and there would not be a fraction of the stuff so freely available if not for him. "Spend some time PMing people, and you'll track down one of these tapes, and then maybe you'll know what it feels like to be told directly that recording X will never see the light of day." If people do not give you their recordings, you blame it on QZ, you have done that before but maybe some people do not give you their stuff for totally different reasons. Strangely, I never had that problem although I am closely connected to Queenzone. (Another deja vu here) lol @ underground :) |
| The Real Wizard 20.11.2008 18:15 |
>Well, I did not download the mp3s, so I really do not know if the mp3s come from your edited version. It doesn't matter. Once a best possible version has been posted, there should be no reason or need to add an inferior one. >Truth is that I already had a Chicago 78 master copy from another collector long before you shared yours on Queenzone. I had that copy before I got the master too... but that's irrelevant to this discussion since it's an inferior version. The point is, when a clone of the master has spread, no other copy should need to spread, unless it's some kind of improvement... like a better analog>digital transfer, a merge/matrix of sources, etc. >Even if you mastered it and improved it which I do not doubt at all and I am sure you did a fantastic job - that does not give you the right to act like you recorded or discovered the original recording and like you have a right to tell other people what they can do or cannot do. It's not "telling people what they can or cannot do." For the one millionth time, it's about showing gratitude to the person/people who taped it, transferred it, polished it, and shared it to be enjoyed in the best quality possible. And note that I said, in addition to my wishes, the taper's wishes were factored into the equation as well. In fact, my wishes were stated in the best interest of the taper who took the time to transfer his tape to digital with great love and care. He's the last person who would want to see his recording end up lossy.. especially when he goes out of his way to show exactly how it was transferred. Precisely: Technics RS-646DS cassette deck (Dolby on) > Teac ME-80 (Nak cm-300) mic > TDK SA C-90 cassettes > Rotel RD-870 (with speed and tape alignment adjusted, Dolby off, using Chord Company cables from Naim) > Naim Audio NAC-52 pre-amp > Teac CDR-2000 Standalone > Taiyo Yuden 74-ZY CDR's > Plextor UltraPlex40max CDR-ROM SCSI W/adaptec 2930 > EAC (1.8X ripping speed or slower) > Flac Frontend (level 8) Yeah, he definitely doesn't care if it's converted to mp3. I can absolutely guarantee you, if this person taped more Queen shows, he wouldn't even bother to mention them publically after seeing what happened to his work. Why go through the work if the community can't appreciate it? Go to Royal Orleans and tell them that you want to reshare one of the new Zeppelin tapes from Chicago 75 in mp3 somewhere, and see where it gets you. >If people do not give you their recordings, you blame it on QZ, you have done that before but maybe some people do not give you their stuff for totally different reasons. And that's where Queen collectors differ from most. You're talking from the perspective of European Queen collectors... a tightly-knit group of individuals who generally only trade with each other, usually with no intention of spreading that recording around any further... unless of course, one person backstabs another, and the recording "coincidentally" ends up circulating shortly thereafter, or is even shared on Queenzone disguised as a generous share. In the wider collecting world, it's not a matter of someone giving *me*, Sir GH, the recording. To the taper I'm in contact with, I act on behalf of the Queen community... like an agent, if you will. I could be Jim, Joe, or Jane. They know nothing about me, nor do they care to. They are deciding whether or not they would like to donate their recording to the community to happily consume. But if they are someone who cares about preserving the quality of their 30-year-old tape (most tapers are), and are aware of what happens here, in light of that they very often ultimately decide not to give their recording to the community. This is something that you are admittedly fully unfamilar with. These tapers are completely removed from this old-fashioned cut-throat way of doing things that selected Queen collectors do (and only do). And that's not to mention the secrecy aspect. Upon asking where a recording came from, countless times I've heard, "I'm not allowed to tell". This every-man-for-himself way of conducting business seems to be unique to these selected Queen collectors. This no doubt contributes greatly to why lineage is often not passed along, and why so many recordings are unaccounted for, stemming from this philosophy of secrecy within this ilk of Queen collectors. >Strangely, I never had that problem although I am closely connected to Queenzone It's not strange. If you don't venture outside of Queenzone or a select few Queen collectors, you're not going to see how others react to what happens here, and what the overall bigger picture is. Of course there are various other reasons why people sit on recordings, but that's changing the subject to something that's irrelevant to this particular discussion. The subject at hand is *one of many* reasons why recordings are being kept under wraps. I don't care if you or whoever else doesn't agree with me. It's not a matter of whether or not it's true (it's like denying that the earth is round on the basis that you've never studied science or geography, refusing to believe in scientists and astronauts who know it for a fact). Either one accepts or denies the truth's existence, and in light of only acceptance can they choose a method of response. If not, then nothing will change. |
| YourValentine 20.11.2008 18:41 |
"And that's where the Queen community differs from most. You're talking from the perspective of European Queen collectors... a tightly-knit group of individuals who generally only trade with each other, usually with no intention of spreading that recording around any further... unless of course, one person backstabs another, and the recording "coincidentally" ends up circulating shortly thereafter, or is even shared on Queenzone disguised as a generous share." You are crossing the line, Bob. You know nothing about me, my contacts or "the European Queen collectors" and your innuendoes are insulting. |
| The Real Wizard 20.11.2008 18:44 |
Truth is often defensively misinterpreted as crossing a line. Besides, I didn't name any names. No need to feel offended. The point I'm trying to illustrate is... things happen behind closed doors between some Queen collectors very differently than it is in most other communities. People are out for themselves here, while elsewhere, generally, people are out there for the community. Again, let's take the Zeppelin community for example. Nearly every show that was taped (about 250 shows) has a confirmed gen recording available from it... plenty of them being from master clones. This generally indicates that hundreds of tapers were either contacted by the community somehow, or the tapers went out of their way to get in contact with the community, and all are shared freely (with a few exceptions, naturally). Why do you think there is such good communication between all of them, and such a plethora of beautifully and carefully transferred best possible recordings available at Royal Orleans... but not here? Anyone is free to take a stab at that one. |
| onevsion 20.11.2008 18:55 |
Jjeroen wrote:on my way up wrote: Did you leave the files and all the info as it was? And shouldn't you thank the people who uploaded it on dime and give proper information about the torrents in your first post? And have you people thought about why great torrents are first posted on dime and not here?--->I suggest you dive into the board and read all the discusions about MP3 versus lossless. You WILL find the answer there. Tapers are not very willing to post their recordings on forums like QZ were people still exchange MP3's. It was a retorical question. No need to suggest things to "On My Way Up" here... Looking at all his recent dime shares, i'm 100% sure "On My Way Up" knows :-) |
| onevsion 20.11.2008 19:41 |
Sir GH wrote:
Truth is often defensively misinterpreted as crossing a line.
Besides, I didn't name any names. No need to feel offended.
The point I'm trying to illustrate is... things happen behind closed doors between Queen collectors very differently than it is in most other communities. People are out for themselves here, while elsewhere, generally, people are out there for the community.
Again, let's take the Zeppelin community for example. Nearly every show that was taped (about 250 shows) has a confirmed gen recording available from it... plenty of them being from master clones. This generally indicates that hundreds of tapers were either contacted by the community somehow, or the tapers went out of their way to get in contact with the community, and all are shared freely. Why do you think there is such good communication within all of them, and such a plethora of beautifully and carefully transferred best possible recordings available at Royal Orleans... but not here?
Don't want to insult the Queen community but I think it might have someting to do with being unaware / ignorant / narrow minded... Most people in the Queen community don't tape shows or take a look at how things are going in other music trading communities. As a taper, I'd rather spread my recordings to a community that really appreciates the work and quality standards. Sadly the community of my number one favourite band (the Queen community) is (and never was) such a community. Hope things change in the future. I really appreciate all the work some Queen fans are doing in order to raise a certain amount of awereness among queen fans about things like Mp3 / FLAC and preserving quality / providing lineage. Being a taper, I find those things important. Hope we (the Queen community) will be like the Led Zeppelin community one day.. Info like this is great: link Or for U2 http://www.achtungbootlegs.com/ (I WILL contribute with some nice shares by that time....) But right now, I really don't feel the need to spread my gems among other people than the close inner circle of "European Queen collectors" I thrust. |
| Crazy LittleThing 20.11.2008 20:16 |
maggiko foka wrote: I think that making the torrent available outside of DIME, where is so hard to get an account, is sharing (i.e. making file available to others). Seems to me that Valentine was very clear about the origin of the torrent though i agree that maybe he should make even clearer the original posters and thank them. I hope the torrents will not be removed from QZ and that i'll be able to download them. GodSaveTheQueen StefanoI got access to Dime on my second try. It's not that difficult. |
| Queenrockyou 21.11.2008 03:12 |
Don't want to insult the Queen community but I think it might have someting to do with being unaware / ignorant / narrow minded... Most people in the Queen community don't tape shows or take a look at how things are going in other music trading communities. Hello everyone ! No time for lenghty discussions these days but I must say I agree with Ducksoup (well, I'm european too !). What I mean is people is probably "unaware / ignorant / narrow minded" most of the cases. Unaware, possibly, of the differences between mp3 and Flac. I mean, if I'm 18 year-old and want to listen to Queen or QPR live after the tour, I go on Queenzone, and then I seek through the website. I see two things : some shows in Flac format, and some shows in Mp3. And I must say a lot of mp3 were shared recently. I think "Yep ! I will be able to download them and put them directly in my mp3 player !! Nice, the show I went to is here too !!!" and don't care anymore about Flac, quality, source, lineage... I don't think I'm wrong here. It took me some time to find the information about all that, and I still have a lot of things to learn, but once I found the information it just seemed that clear that Flac was the format to use. Plus people can always convert mp3 for their own use if they want to, which is not the case the other way, you can't create a Flac file starting from the mp3 file without losing quality. The fact that the community here let people share as they want to is somehow a good thing, freedom is always a good thing, but it is also a bad thing, because quality is lost (I mean letting people share their recordings as they want to without having a place to explain them clearly how they can do that without losing quality, or the different ways of sharing). A lot of people here are caring about quality nowadays, there was a quite long period without mp3 shares here at the end of next year, or the start of new year. But their work is being destroyed because it is not everyone. I am quite sure Queenzone will never say "OK, guys, from now on, mp3 is forbidden, we want to be the top Queen sharing website now", and I still wonder if it's the first aim of this website. I don't think it is. So if no-one creates a pendant of Queenzone for sharing, we'll have to make do with it, and we could always complain. Too bad, as sharing and Queenzone are complementary and we need Queenzone's support for that. Queenzone is authorized by the band, whereas I don't think they will be OK for another one. Well, I don't know if I'm clear here, sorry. The fact that a lot of mp3 are being shared here from the 2008 tour is also showing that people don't know/care about quality. I mean, it's not because it's new that it can be shared as lossy. The only thing here is that now people will create flac starting from mp3 and will trade, exchange, share, just because people are trading flac. They will do that intentionnally or not, as I said maybe a lot of people don't know that mp3->Flac is bad, and why. So we'll have a lot of lossy shows, we now have a community mostly showing lossy things and not attractive for a taper who wants to exchange. If I'm new to this community, I can't find clearly explanation about the difference between Flac and Mp3, so I can't decide with all the information I need if I prefer one or the other. Plus flac is unknown to me so I tend to go to mp3 without searching what Flac is. So I just take and download what I see, without caring anymore. I find Pittrek's "Best Of The Best" series, but don't want to bother with Flac. I wonder if he would be OK to create a "Best Of The Best" mp3 series ! Also, I can't find a clear index, showing a list of the shows shared here, with a link for the lossless material, a link for the lossy (as it is authorized and will always be), and explanation about how it can be downloaded (torrent, rapidshare, mediafire).... It is a different problem, but it is something that can easily be done, and that isn't, whereas it is done on other fan communities and it makes life much easier. You know directly what you can download / upload on the website, in which quality. Here, it is all a terrible mess, so when you find a mp3 version you don't search anymore. But there still are worst places on internet too, to be honest ! I was threatened by a moderator on a Alice Cooper forum, who wanted to cancel my registration. He told me that I should not state on the forum that the Flac files he himself shared were lossy and that it was bad (and I said that quite politely, frankly but kindly). I spent some hours downloading three shows from different periods, just to listen to this artist I didn't knew, and to get them for a friend. I found myself with hours spent for nothing, three shows I could not share with my friend, and I could get unregistered for warning people about that. The moderator wanted a public thank for that. I never went back to that part of the forum, believe me ! Back to topic. So, we once talked about a "technical" forum, BUT SOMETHING CLEARLY ORGANIZED, a place to explain how to use Flac, create them, grab them, record, share, analyze, what software to use, how... a sort of starting point for someone who wants to start caring about quality, where every single question that can be asked could be answered. That won't avoid people to share as mp3 if they want to but at least everyone will know about the difference between mp3 and Flac, or at least will be able to know quite easily. I find it as a compromise, good or not I don't know. I would be happy to bring my own experience to that, and I'm sure some other people could do the same too. When I arrived on Queenzone, I remember that I even didn't knew how to zip files properly! So Flac was really unknown territory. We need a place where all questions can find an answer easily in my opinion. Well, I started saying I had no time for lenghty discussions, but hey. I really hope something can be done to bring both peace and quality here. It seems much more appealing that way, doesn't it ? It's surely not impossible ! Regards, Olivier, Belgium. |
| onevsion 21.11.2008 04:46 |
nice words Olivier...! |
| The Real Wizard 21.11.2008 11:49 |
ruth.olivier wrote: Also, I can't find a clear index, showing a list of the shows shared here, with a link for the lossless material, a link for the lossy So, we once talked about a "technical" forum, BUT SOMETHING CLEARLY ORGANIZED, a place to explain how to use Flac, create them, grab them, record, share, analyze, what software to use, how... a sort of starting point for someone who wants to start caring about quality, where every single question that can be asked could be answered. Both are excellent ideas, and I can't see one reason why they can't be implemented. Have a look at this screenshot from the royal-orleans forum: link The threads are very well-organized, as you can see. Date is yyyy-mm-dd, followed by the city and which version of the recording it is. The user can search through all shares, and the search function works perfectly. If you search for a particular date, year, city, or whatever, you find what you want. That would be a great start for Queenzone. People shouldn't have to come on here asking how to find a particular show. They should be able to find it on their own. Note that there are masters of two sources from Boston 73. Imagine the day when two masters from a single show will be available here, and the majority of people actually understand why that's such a beautiful thing. Seriously, why can't there be some more moderators (operators, constabulary, whatever) here, who will put in the effort, who truly want to make this a better place? |
| Yara 21.11.2008 12:51 |
I did try to keep updating the flac concert list, and organizing it by date and thanking the people involded, but even this modest work has been pretty much destroyed after two bugs or crashes on the server. So it does come to a point when you start losing the willingness to take part in the community, even though things like crash on the server or the like are not to blame on anyone. It's just dispiriting. And then, as Olivier pointed out, one can't find what's already there and has been shared here. And why? Links get disfunctional, people stop seeding concerts, the search mechanism is quite limited although huge enhancements have been made, and then you ask yourself, as I did: "Why the heck am I taking the trouble to spend time, patience and resources to keep the recordings online and re-upload them and organize them if, frankly speaking, it'll all be lost in a matter of months or weeks?" I was going to start doing some remasters. I bought a simple sound editor first just to fix the speed of some recordings I shared. I met some collectors with some interesting stuff who were willing to show it or pass it onto me but not to the community. The reasons, as Your Valentine correctly pointed out, vary a lot - there are those who treasure the quality of the recordings, for sure, but, well, at least some of the guys I met who have some very interesting, good-sounding material are in fact waiting for a substantial offering, and I'm talking about cash, by a Queen fan - and I think it's sad. The more you ask the guy to share the stuff, more value he adds to it, even though he sometimes hasn't done anything besides buying a tape a long time ago or taping a recording a concert with the help of people involved in the business of selling the material, not sharing - sharing is a pretty recent concept brought about by the internet, it seems, that is not as well accepted by some very fine collectors or tapers as I once imagined. That's not a critique of their behavior. There are at least two guys who are really very kind to me and have no trouble sharing info or stuff, as long as it's personal and I'll not spread it around. They know they can trust me, and they agree with me on at least one thing: why do some people - none of you guys, by the way, so no offense is meant here because it's more related to a local trading communities - keep bothering them and almost forcing them to share their stuff WHEN THERE'S ALREADY A HUGE ARCHIVE OF LIVE CONCERTS AVAILABLE FOR PEOPLE TO LISTEN TO? There are people who can't even find their way here and start downloading the most interesting stuff. Pittrek's best of the best series was a blessing in this respect, really. The other problem is the lack of musical discussion, I think. And that won't change. It's pointless to download a great gig here, listen to it carefully, and then be frankly UNABLE TO DISCUSS IT MUSICALLY with FANS OF THE BAND because people...didn't listen to the recording, or listened to it a long time ago and don't remember it anymore. So...why not having some patience too? We should bear in mind that most of us can't really enjoy all the material that's already available. With time, the recordings still unknown to us will come up, I think, and I can think of some cases I can't go into details, but I think a line can be drawed between collection and sheer obsession - people who want to download more and more stuff and won't even listen to it. When I say: "I'm still listening to Frank' 82 or Hammy '79", I mean it in a very real way: it takes time to enjoy it. Two fabulous concerts. It's fun to have a good sound editor for personal use and try to emphasize different aspects of the music to get a bigger picture. I mean...I enjoy what's shared here. I really enjoy. It's like...when Wembley 12-10-1980 came up, and Roy Thomas Baker user uploaded here originally, I think, I said: "Wow...it may be lossy, the lineage may be unclear, but it seems interesting. Let's investigate". Then I got to know some people who attended the show and told me that they remembered many of the things Freddie says in the recording. I passed it onto to a collector and he said - that's it, it's the real thing, not a fake, but there are other better versions. I really tought at that moment: well, nothing I can do in my name or anyone's name will change his decision of sharing a better version or not, so I'll stick to this one and...correct the speed issues and so on and try to polish it bit. The first night in Vienna, 1982, shared here by user josedequeso, that's something I'll never forget: an amazing concert that I still listen to with a lot of interest. It takes time to enjoy and listen to all this stuff. I think sometimes there are people who come up in the board and start ranting about a single concert as if their lives depended on it, and that contributes somewhat for the concert not being shared, ironically. I thank you all - Pittrek, Josedequeso, Manadrin, Maruga, SirGH, YV, Ginger01, Olivier, and many other people who may disagree with each other in some respects but who have made an amazing job of making or help making many wonderful recordings available. But there's no denying that things have been happening here in QZ that are so dispiriting that makes one lose its enthusiasm for the whole thing - and that's the worst that can happen: people gradually stop being interested in Queen itself because they notice the amount of energy and time they dedicate to the band is simply not rewarding in face of what they get in terms of discussions, information or even the lack of some basic organizing principles which would make the share of the material which is already out there easier. Maybe that's why I barely access the community anymore. Since day one, when I registered here, I noticed that the amount of insult, offense and agression going on here is just outlandish. It does raise a question as to why Queen fans seem to be so deffensive, agressive or why this community seems to attract so many outright sick people. And I do take part in many forums, and none is similar to this one with regard to abuse, bullying and lack of discussion. I hope things get better because, even though there are a lot of flaws in the community, it still has a great potential for getting fans together and help them know the band better - the community has this potential and it's being realized, for sure. The community has a lot of qualities too. So it's worth preserving it, I guess, and trying to enhance it. I sincerely lost much of the interest I had in the community, but I hope you guys who are much more involved with these things than I am get to make it a better place for good-faith, well-intentioned fans who just want to get to know the band better and have access to some of the huge live archive already available. Mp3 or Flac, I think there are some basic rules of decency and politeness that just can't be disregarded. There's a collector I know who doesn't like the idea of spreading the concerts in mp3 after all the trouble he had - that's correct. But when I introduced him to the community, he was quite honest about what the real problem was: it was not flac or mp3 anymore, but the bullying, arrogance and lack of respect which kind of became trademark of the community, to the point that we ourselves say: "Welcome to Queenzone", when something really sick happens. Regards and I wish you all a great weekend, Yara. |
| The Real Wizard 21.11.2008 13:37 |
>Yara wrote: But there's no denying that things have been happening here in QZ that are so dispiriting that makes one lose its enthusiasm for the whole thing - and that's the worst that can happen: people gradually stop being interested in Queen itself because they notice the amount of energy and time they dedicate to the band is simply not rewarding in face of what they get in terms of discussions, information or even the lack of some basic organizing principles which would make the share of the material which is already out there easier. I love your logic, as I always have. But far too often, logic is unfortunately vehemently opposed at this forum when it's needed most. >Since day one, when I registered here, I noticed that the amount of insult, offense and agression going on here is just outlandish. It does raise a question as to why Queen fans seem to be so deffensive, agressive or why this community seems to attract so many outright sick people. Forums need moderators, who have a balanced sense of when things are fairly moving along and when they are not. Moderators should have fair rules, with the greater good in mind, and should be open to fair and honest suggestions from users who want to improve the state of the forum and the community as a whole... especially when they are users who have contributed a lot to the forum, particularly the sharing community. But again, I'm not a moderator, so I guess that renders my opinion to be inherently wrong. |
| tilomagnet 21.11.2008 14:30 |
I don't get why you are desperately trying to make QZ a better place. I mean if the people who run this place obviously have no clue and are unwilling to help, then there's no hope. Start a new forum for real fans and collectors! In the Zep community Royal Orleans is the place for serious collectors and fans who are interested in obtaining quality, properly documented copies of their shows. Do you think Presence (that's the guy who runs RO) would have succeeded in turning the LZ.com forum into something similar that RO is today for the Zep community? Of course not, because LZ.com is - similar to QZ (but of course not nearly as bad) - filled with aggressive teenagers and ignorant idiots. |
| The Real Wizard 21.11.2008 14:37 |
tilomagnet wrote: I don't get why you are desperately trying to make QZ a better place. I mean if the people who run this place obviously have no clue and are unwilling to help, then there's no hope. Start a new forum for real fans and collectors! In the Zep community Royal Orleans is the place for serious collectors and fans who are interested in obtaining quality, properly documented copies of their shows. Do you think Presence (that's the guy who runs RO) would have succeeded in turning the LZ.com forum into something similar that RO is today for the Zep community? Of course not, because LZ.com is - similar to QZ (but of course not nearly as bad) - filled with aggressive teenagers and ignorant idiots. Of course you're right. So very right. |
| Ginger01 21.11.2008 14:44 |
tilomagnet wrote: I don't get why you are desperately trying to make QZ a better place. I mean if the people who run this place obviously have no clue and are unwilling to help, then there's no hope. Start a new forum for real fans and collectors! In the Zep community Royal Orleans is the place for serious collectors and fans who are interested in obtaining quality, properly documented copies of their shows. Do you think Presence (that's the guy who runs RO) would have succeeded in turning the LZ.com forum into something similar that RO is today for the Zep community? Of course not, because LZ.com is - similar to QZ (but of course not nearly as bad) - filled with aggressive teenagers and ignorant idiots. Hear hear By the way, Valentine 90 - if you did a bit more research you would find that all those torrents you found on Dime came from here in the first place. So what's the point in sharing links on Dime that you can already get here??? |
| onevsion 21.11.2008 15:02 |
tilomagnet wrote: I don't get why you are desperately trying to make QZ a better place. I mean if the people who run this place obviously have no clue and are unwilling to help, then there's no hope. Start a new forum for real fans and collectors! In the Zep community Royal Orleans is the place for serious collectors and fans who are interested in obtaining quality, properly documented copies of their shows. Do you think Presence (that's the guy who runs RO) would have succeeded in turning the LZ.com forum into something similar that RO is today for the Zep community? Of course not, because LZ.com is - similar to QZ (but of course not nearly as bad) - filled with aggressive teenagers and ignorant idiots. well said. I remember we used to have a forum like that (the Queen collectors forum or something) What has happened with that? |
| Jjeroen 21.11.2008 15:24 |
You mean Queenzone pre 2003? ;-) |
| FaBu 21.11.2008 17:17 |
As a comment to the huge discusion that has been going on these last couple of days: Ginger said that It's all here, but it can be very hard to find There is no working system for tracking down old shows. I've written in the Request Forum, and I've asked for seeders for old Torrents,but nothing happends. (and I know that many must have them) As a person who joined QZ less than a year ago it's not easy to get new stuff here anymore, . I've been thinking many times that now it's time for me to give something back. But i don't know if I dare. I'm afraid of getting the same treatment as Valentine'90. The community should welcome a new young entusiastic member, even if she has been a bit too eager. To avoyd such things happeing, then people who "know how to do it" must be willimng to share. That's what it's all about isn't It? Sharing the music of Queen, the group that we all love so much |
| onevsion 21.11.2008 20:34 |
Jjeroen wrote: You mean Queenzone pre 2003? ;-) LOL :-) No I meant the forum wich led to the WhiteQueenRecords "label" only one DVD was made and after that everyone involved seemed to have lost interest... pitty because I think the forum was a good idea. |
| Jjeroen 22.11.2008 04:43 |
Ducksoup wrote:Jjeroen wrote: You mean Queenzone pre 2003? ;-)LOL :-) No I meant the forum wich led to the WhiteQueenRecords "label" only one DVD was made and after that everyone involved seemed to have lost interest... pitty because I think the forum was a good idea. Ah yes, that White Queen Records lable was a good initiative wasn't it? ;-) Hmmm... who was it again that came up with that? ;-) The website you mean was PieterMC's. It's long gone. I believe because there was not a lot going on there... |
| YourValentine 22.11.2008 05:02 |
@ Yara what happened to your thread in a server crash? If you refer to this one, it's sitll there http://www.queenconcerts.com/queenzone/931884.html I know what you mean about the rudeness and lack of respect on the website but it does not come from the website, it comes form the users. Actually, I see a lot of the same on QOL, so maybe it's a Queen fan phenomenon, I don't know. To me it feels like it's getting worse all the time but when I read old threads in the webarchive, it has always been a problem on QZ. I cannot imagine that moderators could turn this around, the users have to do it but it's obvious that there are not enough users who care and write something positive. Instead each troll attracts 10 regular users who support the troll by dragging up his posts and make him even a topic all the time. The rest of the posts are other users complaining about that and calling for moderation. I am sorry that you feel discouraged but I really cannot blame you. @ Bob - what do you mean: you are not naming any names? You tell me I am too narrowminded and caught up in an alleged European collector group where backstabbing is a daily routine which makes me unable to see the bigger picture. That crosses a line and is insulting. I would prefer that you do not pass any judgements about me because you really know nothing about me, my contacts and my collecting habits. |
| TimBHM 22.11.2008 07:01 |
YourValentine wrote: @ Yara what happened to your thread in a server crash? If you refer to this one, it's sitll there http://www.queenconcerts.com/queenzone/931884.html I know what you mean about the rudeness and lack of respect on the website but it does not come from the website, it comes form the users. Actually, I see a lot of the same on QOL, so maybe it's a Queen fan phenomenon, I don't know. To me it feels like it's getting worse all the time but when I read old threads in the webarchive, it has always been a problem on QZ. I cannot imagine that moderators could turn this around, the users have to do it but it's obvious that there are not enough users who care and write something positive. Instead each troll attracts 10 regular users who support the troll by dragging up his posts and make him even a topic all the time. The rest of the posts are other users complaining about that and calling for moderation. I am sorry that you feel discouraged but I really cannot blame you. @ Bob - what do you mean: you are not naming any names? You tell me I am too narrowminded and caught up in an alleged European collector group where backstabbing is a daily routine which makes me unable to see the bigger picture. That crosses a line and is insulting. I would prefer that you do not pass any judgements about me because you really know nothing about me, my contacts and my collecting habits. Sigh.... I have to say that I've found this thread tremendously depressing and I've thought long and hard before replying but I've found QZ to be the most amazing place filled with some genuinely wonderful people so here goes... What we are suffering from here seems to be two distinct and separate problems: 1) The Queen collecting/trading community is broken somehow. I can't speak as widely as people like YV and Bob because I'm still a relative newbie but I am saddened that there seem to be so many hoarders and clique-traders. Can we fix it? Probably not and for a multitude of reasons but somewhere like QZ is a great start. If we can demonstrate that the QZ community is as serious and dedicated to preserving quality, lineage and credit as other communities then I firmly believe we can convince more of these people to release their gems into the wild but this is a very long-term goal... no quick fixes here I'm afraid. 2) QZ is broken somehow. Yes there are some technical glitches that really need to be fixed but I think it's more because it's trying to do too many things for too many people. Now I'm very pro-flac but there are times when mp3 is appropriate - the current tour is a good example, I want the recordings but at the moment they're simply not widely available in FLAC... yet. I think we need to split the announce forum. Have one which is dedicated solely to lossless concerts with clearly stated dates/lineages/sources/credits like in the pic Bob posted. It should be open to all to view/download and have a "thanking" system like on other BBs where users can thank a post without having to post themselves. Then we can set it up so that you can't post concerts to the forum without being vetted first. Why is that important? Well it means that we can make sure that before anyone posts they understand whether their concert is appropriate for this particular forum and make sure that it's got all the necessary information included. Secondly we can have a general annouce forum which, much like the current annouce forum, can be a free for all for everything else. After all we don't want to stop/discourage people from posting their stuff - far from it. What we want to do is make sure that people who are serious about quality etc have somewhere that caters to them in a professional(ish) way. We also desperately need some way to make sure that certain trolls (we all know who they are) simply can't interact with this community any more - the bullying and abuse it just not necessary and there are some polarising figures who just seem to bring out the worst in people. Let them look and download but let's not allow them to post anywhere meaningful. Obviously there's a lot of technical and administrative work needed to accomplish the dream - yes I *do* think we can "save" QZ - and I'm more than willing to muck in and help out. Whether it's as a moderator or working on the code (I program software/websites for a living) I'm at the community's disposal. I think it would be worthwhile starting a lossless "pro" thread as a pilot scheme to see if it works and I'm more than happy to volunteer to drive that project forward. What do people think? |
| pittrek 22.11.2008 07:06 |
I think that EVERYBODY should take a deep breath before writing something [img=/images/smiley/msn/wink_smile.gif][/img] . I have given up hope that this site will be something like DimeADozen or TheTradersDen a long time ago, I simply enjoy all the nice flac recordings which pop up here from time to time. To be honest, I think in the first place it would be great if this forum would work exactly as planned [img=/images/smiley/msn/tounge_smile.gif][/img] . |
| TimBHM 22.11.2008 07:26 |
pittrek wrote: I think that EVERYBODY should take a deep breath before writing something [img=/images/smiley/msn/wink_smile.gif][/img] . Sorry - did I not breathe deeply enough? It wasn't my intention to irritate - far from it. I want us to be able to find a way forward that makes EVERYONE happy... |
| Queenrockyou 22.11.2008 07:39 |
I'm OK with a lot of things here. Maybe the "thanks" option is not that good in my opinion, I don't think it's good to see someone with a "thank account" bigger or less important than the others, everybody should be equal. Writing a "thanks" is not difficult at all, and giving an opinion is so much better. I think Queenzone is really nice, but as there is no other support on the web for Queen collectors, it should be Queenzone's role to be more attractive and quality-minded. For the moment it is (was) slightly improving but it still feels like not fully well-organized, it still sems like a terrible mess. Of course it is impossible to satisfy 100% of the users. Please take all that as constructive remarks, no harm in it. Hope this can lead to something anyway ! Regards, Olivier, Belgium. |
| pittrek 22.11.2008 07:41 |
No Tim, this wasn't pointed to you, but to the "conversation" between Bob and Barbara. That's strange, I wrote a VERY long post, but after I edited it, the whole part after the smiley is gone :( Another bug maybe ? |
| TimBHM 22.11.2008 08:16 |
pittrek wrote: No Tim, this wasn't pointed to you, but to the "conversation" between Bob and Barbara. That's strange, I wrote a VERY long post, but after I edited it, the whole part after the smiley is gone :( Another bug maybe ? Yeah well I was hoping we'd gloss over that. I hope I'm right when I say that's just a piece of tragic miscommunication which has snowballed... |
| The Real Wizard 22.11.2008 12:25 |
YourValentine wrote: @ Bob - what do you mean: you are not naming any names? You tell me I am too narrowminded and caught up in an alleged European collector group where backstabbing is a daily routine which makes me unable to see the bigger picture. That crosses a line and is insulting. I would prefer that you do not pass any judgements about me because you really know nothing about me, my contacts and my collecting habits. Nowhere did I say or imply that those are the only people you personally deal with. Nowhere did I say or imply you're narrow-minded, so please don't put words in my mouth. And nowhere did I say or imply that all European Queen collectors exercise said backstabbing all the time. The fact is, this is something that has happened, and most likely will continue to happen. I am always very careful and selective with the language I choose to use, to ensure that I don't make generalized statements that apply to everybody at all times, because naturally such assumptions would be pretty short-sighted. I simply stated that I have spoken with many people (generally in the US) who refuse to liberate their Queen tapes because of certain things that happen here, i.e. lack of quality standards. You say that's not true, despite never (or at best, minimally) investigating the issue yourself. I rest my case. |
| Queenrockyou 22.11.2008 14:05 |
Sir GH wrote:
I simply stated that I have spoken with many people (generally in the US) who refuse to liberate their Queen tapes because of certain things that happen here, i.e. lack of quality standards.
Maybe that's also what led to the creation of a small group of collectors who are considered by elitists but continue to struggle with the bad image of Queenzone and can't approach those persons who have that tapes. And 99% of the Queenzone users can't neither approach that elitist community. As there is no "Queenzone +", and maybe there should not be, we have to create unity. Those collectors can make any user benefit from their recordings and most of all experience, as Queenzone is not only for sharing. If we want to create unity, we have to create the basis of quality first in my opinion, and to help other people unaware of all that quality things to level up and join freely. Of course, these are only words, but I don't think it can't be done. Regards, Olivier, Belgium. |
| Saint Jiub 22.11.2008 20:05 |
YourValentine wrote: "And that's where the Queen community differs from most. You're talking from the perspective of European Queen collectors... a tightly-knit group of individuals who generally only trade with each other, usually with no intention of spreading that recording around any further... unless of course, one person backstabs another, and the recording "coincidentally" ends up circulating shortly thereafter, or is even shared on Queenzone disguised as a generous share." You are crossing the line, Bob. You know nothing about me, my contacts or "the European Queen collectors" and your innuendoes are insulting. Of course Bob is not generalizing. He is above such things. LOL. Anyone remember Bob's generalizations a few years ago about Mexican collectors, when someone refused his "demand" to share? |
| Saint Jiub 22.11.2008 20:12 |
Sir GH wrote:
> I don't care if you or whoever else doesn't agree with me. It's not a matter of whether or not it's true (it's like denying that the earth is round on the basis that you've never studied science or geography, refusing to believe in scientists and astronauts who know it for a fact). Either one accepts or denies the truth's existence, and in light of only acceptance can they choose a method of response.
FACT If Bob believes it, it must be true. All other opinions must be due to ignorance. |
| The Real Wizard 22.11.2008 23:53 |
Panchgani wrote: Anyone remember Bob's generalizations a few years ago about Mexican collectors, when someone refused his "demand" to share? Good job with the "attack the person and not the problem" attitude. Bringing up things from years ago that are completely irrelevant, not to mention taken completely out of context, accomplishes nothing. And your recollection of history is pretty piss poor. It has nothing to do with me "believing" things. Believing implies a plurality of possibilities, which is not the case in this discussion, if you'd care to read it. But this topic of discussion has never really been within your grasp, so I fully expect you to come forth with your next insult any time now. Either that, or is this your way of saying I'm wrong for "believing" the earth is round? Why is it so important for you to feel the need to slag me off at any opportunity? Have you nothing to better to do on a Saturday night? But again, I'd expect nothing more from you. Go play on the highway. |
| JeffArse 23.11.2008 00:25 |
SirGH... I found the comment you made to Barbara regarding European Queen traders as insulting and I think you'll be wise to apologize. You may not see anything wrong with your comment but I sure do. |
| The Real Wizard 23.11.2008 00:38 |
This is your first post here? Anonymously entering a discussion that doesn't involve you, and pledging allegiance to one of the parties without knowing any background information? This is quite the convenient little gang-up session. I've had enough of this. Good day to you all. |
| Rick 23.11.2008 04:53 |
Well, well, some discussion and a good one too! Finally, QZ becomes a little more interesting now. No seriously, I think we needs such discussions. I'm a huge supporter of preserving quality and I fully agree with Bob here. Although many would think: Please shut the hell up, Rick, you got nothing to add! Well yes, true to an certain extent. I think I count myself as a "silent" or "shadow" trader. That doesn't mean I have nothing interesting. I'm just far too afraid "my" recordings will end up here. Plus, I really don't know what to ask for in return :) Sounds selfish, ey? You may think that, I really don't care at all. Let's just say I found the right people at the right time. I see trading as a hobby. I don't want to ruin the whole concept of this. I'm just more active on a small scale. On the other hand: I do respect all those Queen fans who DO share their recordings, but that's just a matter of choice. I rather don't, because the whole effort of finding them in the first place will be lost. Who doesn't remember the infamous Buffalo accident? Good times, good times. Fire away! :) |
| Queenrockyou 23.11.2008 04:58 |
The discussion is getting difficult now ! Please come back to the topic, we were trying to talk in a constructive way about what could be made on Queenzone, and were more waiting to have an answer to that, or more opinions, than that sort of discussion. Do you think, Barb, Richard, that Queenzone can try to improve certain things ? What can be done and can't be ? I think that problem of "angry" collectors is not new, and I would be happy if we could have your opinions, thoughts, help maybe. Also, if ever someone else if feeling that Queenzone can benefit from something else, just be vocal here ! We need that sort of discussions from time to time. Well I do, as I still think about Queenzone as a reference, and I'm sure I'm not the only one ! Regards, Olivier, Belgium. |
| JeffArse 23.11.2008 13:16 |
"This is your first post here? Anonymously entering a discussion that doesn't involve you, and pledging allegiance to one of the parties without knowing any background information? This is quite the convenient little gang-up session." This is why it seems many people here consider you to be a pompous arse. This is a discussion on an open forum, it involves anyone who wants to participate. Without knowing any background information? I can read, mate. I've also been collecting for many years and dealt with many traders from all over the world, so don't give me that crap. Gang up session? You bring this all on yourself, pal. I've been lurking here for years, not wishing to participate in the discussions, mainly due to people like this. This place will never be considered serious, and will continue to be laughed at by places like Dime while we have jack asses like this guy thinking he owns the place. Get off your damn high horse, Sir. |
| on my way up 23.11.2008 16:15 |
JeffArse wrote: "This is your first post here? Anonymously entering a discussion that doesn't involve you, and pledging allegiance to one of the parties without knowing any background information? This is quite the convenient little gang-up session." This is why it seems many people here consider you to be a pompous arse. This is a discussion on an open forum, it involves anyone who wants to participate. Without knowing any background information? I can read, mate. I've also been collecting for many years and dealt with many traders from all over the world, so don't give me that crap. Gang up session? You bring this all on yourself, pal. I've been lurking here for years, not wishing to participate in the discussions, mainly due to people like this. This place will never be considered serious, and will continue to be laughed at by places like Dime while we have jack asses like this guy thinking he owns the place. Get off your damn high horse, Sir. I'm completely baffled by the personal attacks I read on here. The lack of respect I find on this site makes me really sad. Sir GH wants the best for all of us, is helpful to everyone and all he gets is being insulted for it. Probably saying this will lead to me being insulted aswel. I know few people who are so honest and fair in their judgements as Sir GH. He tries to learn people something new and some just spit in his face. And that QZ has become a crappy site is not Sir GH's fault, actually totally the opposite. Saying such a thing is insulting. |
| Phoenix501 23.11.2008 17:38 |
Sir GH wrote: This is your first post here? Anonymously entering a discussion that doesn't involve you, and pledging allegiance to one of the parties without knowing any background information? This is quite the convenient little gang-up session. I've had enough of this. Good day to you all. I find this comment a real shame on your part SirGH. For many years I've found you one of the top contributors to this site... and your posts are very constructive and informative (to me and I'm sure many others), but you have no right speaking to anyone like that... one post or 10,000 posts... what gives you the right to tell ANYBODY that they cannot join in? How do you expect to BETTER this site with an attitude like this towards new users. I'm not ganging up on you BTW. I can relate to both points of view. I've been collecting Queen and Elvis bootlegs (among others) since 1991 (on a very small scale, only collecting the better recordings I'll admit), but I'll be honest, with the internet getting bigger and easier over time, collecting is nowhere near as big an art as it once was. Sharing has become much easier too, and with mp3 offering much smaller compression rates compared to FLAC (all be it a major drop in quality), it will continue to become more popular and FLAC will become less and less shared. This isn't what die hard collectors want to see happen obviously... why would you, having shared all those years... waiting for endless discs come through the post... seeing all your old cassettes need swapping to CD... etc etc. But the recent sharing of QPR tour material in mp3 should tell you that a new generation of collectors, who have the internet as their sharing medium opposed to post, are using new technology to reach a much larger sharing audience. Shame is, older collectors will stubbornly never accept this. All your hard work and waiting to finally get those rarities in the past is being replaced by much easier and more accessible technology. These days you will have many versions of a concert Vs the few people who managed to record and share older concerts (that's the only reason your copies are "timeless" btw... in 30 years from now you'll have loads of copies of eg. 2008 concerts). I do appreciate you wanting to maintain the best in standards of older material, but you are facing a losing battle. If this means that some older stuff WONT be shared then so be it... just means a very few folk will have heard an old concert as opposed to lots... not the end of the world. To those who say "selfish"... who cares to be really honest? There is a ton of other concerts in varying quality to listen too from any given period. One last thing... I've waited for many years to get a copy of a particular concert... I tried and failed many times in the process... but it's not as if I was that desperate eg. I hired private detectives or spent money I didn't have to obtain it... to say that some people have searched for 30 years for a cassette copy is over dramatising a little is it not? To the person that had this miraculous holy grail item... is their life any better for keeping on to it and asking that it stay in a particular state and that it not be shared? In all honesty, they had no right to it anyway... none of us have any right to bootlegs do we? |
| YourValentine 23.11.2008 19:44 |
Phoenix501, you are right pointing out that the community is very diverse and while specialized collectors want to preserve or enhance the quality of recordings, other fans just want material for their IPOD or do not care so much about versions or lineage of recordings. The sad thing is that there are always fights about which path this website should follow while Queenzone is an open website and attracts many different users with different background and different interests. On previous occasions it was discussed if it would help to divide the Sharing forum into two forums, one for the quality conscious collectors and one for the fans who just want to have many recordings but the idea was not received well. The reason is that the hardcore collectors want a forum in which strict rules are enforced as to which recordings are allowed to be shared and which information must be available to make a share eligible. Such a forum would need strict moderation and I cannot imagine this to happen on Queenzone. It would be against everything Richard always wanted: to provide a open and free website where all users can share in a way they find suitable. Personally, I think that a "quality" sharing forum could well work by self moderation like the fan mixer forum - they don't fight, treat each other with respect and figured out their own rules. It's a real pity that fans of a rock group cannot get along when there is so much generosity, willingness to share and readiness to invest time and effort on this website at the same time. Lastly, I want to say that I did not want the disagreement between me and Bob to spread and to cause a new rift in this forum. I felt very offended by his comments but I am an adult and able to make my point and I would hate it if this dragged on and on, that does not help at all. |
| Queenrockyou 23.11.2008 20:16 |
YourValentine wrote: Phoenix501, you are right pointing out that the community is very diverse and while specialized collectors want to preserve or enhance the quality of recordings, other fans just want material for their IPOD or do not care so much about versions or lineage of recordings. The sad thing is that there are always fights about which path this website should follow while Queenzone is an open website and attracts many different users with different background and different interests. On previous occasions it was discussed if it would help to divide the Sharing forum into two forums, one for the quality conscious collectors and one for the fans who just want to have many recordings but the idea was not received well. The reason is that the hardcore collectors want a forum in which strict rules are enforced as to which recordings are allowed to be shared and which information must be available to make a share eligible. Such a forum would need strict moderation and I cannot imagine this to happen on Queenzone. It would be against everything Richard always wanted: to provide a open and free website where all users can share in a way they find suitable. Personally, I think that a "quality" sharing forum could well work by self moderation like the fan mixer forum - they don't fight, treat each other with respect and figured out their own rules. It's a real pity that fans of a rock group cannot get along when there is so much generosity, willingness to share and readiness to invest time and effort on this website at the same time. Lastly, I want to say that I did not want the disagreement between me and Bob to spread and to cause a new rift in this forum. I felt very offended by his comments but I am an adult and able to make my point and I would hate it if this dragged on and on, that does not help at all. Thanks Barb for your answer. So let's say that your words with Bob only concern both of you and are not the topic here. That allows discussions to be more peaceful and open. So, can I ask you first if the discussion can be moved on another new thread, with another title than "9 torrents from DimeaDozen", which is not reflective and a lot of people could miss that. Plus it would make this problem with Bob less important and widely spread, as this is not part of the forum. After that, can I ask you, in your own point of view and Richard's, what can be done on the forum to content more people (if not everyone, seems utopic) ? I think a lot of various demands were made for improving quality, which means a lot for a good part of the people here (not everyone I confess) : mp3 banned, index created, more moderators, things like that. Can you or Richard answer clearly what can be done, and why, or why not. Well, I don't want to write a huge lot of words and cause headache to you and everyone, but this kind of discussion occurs here and there and seems to express the need for some "changes". Can you explain your point of view and on what part we can find some arrangement or absolutely not. I know that as a moderator that you take into consideration both Richard's point of view and the users' remarks, as that's your role. Do you think also this can be done by asking us our opinion, to anyone here (from the newbies to the trained collectors) ? A new topic that would be used to get most people's opinion about all those subjects, all the remarks that were done on Queenzone ? Such like a topic asking "do you want mp3 to be banned (and why) ?" or "Do you want the creation of a "quality only" section ?" or "Do you feel the need of an index, show by show" ? A sort of democratic demand coming from you and not starting from that kind of discussion taken as an "argument" ? I don't want to say that Queenzone is mine and should be that way or that way, but I would be happy to have a large discussion about that, on precise points as on a more general point of view. Regards, Olivier, Belgium. |
| JeffArse 23.11.2008 23:52 |
This whole conversation could be resolved with a few obvious changes. 1 - This forum is fair enough for general discussion but, let's be honest, is not the place to be used for sharing. A seperate forum should be created, using decent tracker software, for LOSSLESS material to be shared freely. There are multiple torrents currently on this site which I cannot download - even though they show has having seeders, there are none. We should have a reliable upgraded tracker. 2 - Lossless is the way to go. MP3's are fine for personal use but should not be shared on the new tracker unless no other version is available and it should be labelled as such. Lossless audio shows should be torrented with spectral charts showing they are lossless. 3 - A new forum should be properly moderated. 3 or 4 permanent moderators. No bitching, no arguing, no-one thinking they are better than anyone else. Bring the community together, not let it pull itself apart. Ratios could be used. Minimum post count before downloading shows, that kinda thing. 4 - A database needs to be formed as part of the new sharing forum to catalog all known circulating versions of shows. Screenshots, proper linage if known, that kinda stuff. Yes there are sites out there which have disc information, but there are a LOT of sites, with different info. See, these things may seem obvious and pretty straight forward... but they are fundamental to keeping a community together. My own Queen DVD collection (I don't collect audio) is undergoing a clearout because a few of the discs I have either got through snail mail trades or downloaded have been lossy - crap converted from DVD to a DIVX piece of crap, back to DVD again. We as a community need to stop this from happening. *gets off his own high horse* |
| onevsion 24.11.2008 06:07 |
JeffArse wrote: This whole conversation could be resolved with a few obvious changes. 1 - This forum is fair enough for general discussion but, let's be honest, is not the place to be used for sharing. A seperate forum should be created, using decent tracker software, for LOSSLESS material to be shared freely. There are multiple torrents currently on this site which I cannot download - even though they show has having seeders, there are none. We should have a reliable upgraded tracker. 2 - Lossless is the way to go. MP3's are fine for personal use but should not be shared on the new tracker unless no other version is available and it should be labelled as such. Lossless audio shows should be torrented with spectral charts showing they are lossless. 3 - A new forum should be properly moderated. 3 or 4 permanent moderators. No bitching, no arguing, no-one thinking they are better than anyone else. Bring the community together, not let it pull itself apart. Ratios could be used. Minimum post count before downloading shows, that kinda thing. 4 - A database needs to be formed as part of the new sharing forum to catalog all known circulating versions of shows. Screenshots, proper linage if known, that kinda stuff. Yes there are sites out there which have disc information, but there are a LOT of sites, with different info. See, these things may seem obvious and pretty straight forward... but they are fundamental to keeping a community together. My own Queen DVD collection (I don't collect audio) is undergoing a clearout because a few of the discs I have either got through snail mail trades or downloaded have been lossy - crap converted from DVD to a DIVX piece of crap, back to DVD again. We as a community need to stop this from happening. *gets off his own high horse* Agree on all points. I don't think this will happen on Queenzone. Maybe some people should start there own queen traders forum. |
| pittrek 24.11.2008 08:11 |
JeffArse wrote: This whole conversation could be resolved with a few obvious changes. 1 - This forum is fair enough for general discussion but, let's be honest, is not the place to be used for sharing. A seperate forum should be created, using decent tracker software, for LOSSLESS material to be shared freely. There are multiple torrents currently on this site which I cannot download - even though they show has having seeders, there are none. We should have a reliable upgraded tracker. 2 - Lossless is the way to go. MP3's are fine for personal use but should not be shared on the new tracker unless no other version is available and it should be labelled as such. Lossless audio shows should be torrented with spectral charts showing they are lossless. 3 - A new forum should be properly moderated. 3 or 4 permanent moderators. No bitching, no arguing, no-one thinking they are better than anyone else. Bring the community together, not let it pull itself apart. Ratios could be used. Minimum post count before downloading shows, that kinda thing. 4 - A database needs to be formed as part of the new sharing forum to catalog all known circulating versions of shows. Screenshots, proper linage if known, that kinda stuff. Yes there are sites out there which have disc information, but there are a LOT of sites, with different info. See, these things may seem obvious and pretty straight forward... but they are fundamental to keeping a community together. My own Queen DVD collection (I don't collect audio) is undergoing a clearout because a few of the discs I have either got through snail mail trades or downloaded have been lossy - crap converted from DVD to a DIVX piece of crap, back to DVD again. We as a community need to stop this from happening. *gets off his own high horse* 1) The only thing why such a tracker does not exist is that I'm currently extremely busy [img=/images/smiley/msn/teeth_smile.gif][/img] . I don't think that Richard has time (or will) to change this forum in that way that we have a separate tracker for lossless-only recordings. 2) These rules are OK but how would you like to make the people to obey the rules ? Queenzone is famous for its "anarchy". 3) Not on Queenzone. Richard is using a third-party tracker which doesn't allow this. 4) Bob (who you attacked for some reason) has on his website exactly this. I've been also working on something similar but I stopped, because it started to be a list of my personal collection and not a list of existing best sources. I think link meets your criteria [img=/images/smiley/msn/teeth_smile.gif][/img] . First of all who visits this site ? 1) Random kids, who like Queen and have too much free time. 2) Trolls and idiots who feel more important when they inform us that we're being controlled by alien reptiles using microchips, or that Paul sucks, or some other very important and intelligent message. 3) Random Queen fans, who think it's nice to have also some unofficial Queen recordings. These people don't care about quality or lineage or if it's lossy or not. 4) Bored people. They love to talk and usually are very interesting and/or funny, but they also don't care about the above kids. 5) Queen experts and "experts". They love to get and share information, some of them are interested in quality recordings, others are not. 6) Collectors. They want the best available version of each show, (that's why they ask for lineage), they want the videos in best available digital formats (currently still DVD), but they are a minority. I myself consider myself a part of "group 6", but as I already wrote, we are a minority. Unfortunately for us, fortunately (probably) for the other 5 groups. I was also pretty "militant" some time ago, but I simply found out that it's a waste of time. Queenzone will never be in the same "class" as dime or TTD, but I don't see a way how to change it. But there is hope, because more and more pro-lossless people are visiting this site. |
| onevsion 24.11.2008 13:21 |
pittrek wrote:JeffArse wrote: This whole conversation could be resolved with a few obvious changes. 1 - This forum is fair enough for general discussion but, let's be honest, is not the place to be used for sharing. A seperate forum should be created, using decent tracker software, for LOSSLESS material to be shared freely. There are multiple torrents currently on this site which I cannot download - even though they show has having seeders, there are none. We should have a reliable upgraded tracker. 2 - Lossless is the way to go. MP3's are fine for personal use but should not be shared on the new tracker unless no other version is available and it should be labelled as such. Lossless audio shows should be torrented with spectral charts showing they are lossless. 3 - A new forum should be properly moderated. 3 or 4 permanent moderators. No bitching, no arguing, no-one thinking they are better than anyone else. Bring the community together, not let it pull itself apart. Ratios could be used. Minimum post count before downloading shows, that kinda thing. 4 - A database needs to be formed as part of the new sharing forum to catalog all known circulating versions of shows. Screenshots, proper linage if known, that kinda stuff. Yes there are sites out there which have disc information, but there are a LOT of sites, with different info. See, these things may seem obvious and pretty straight forward... but they are fundamental to keeping a community together. My own Queen DVD collection (I don't collect audio) is undergoing a clearout because a few of the discs I have either got through snail mail trades or downloaded have been lossy - crap converted from DVD to a DIVX piece of crap, back to DVD again. We as a community need to stop this from happening. *gets off his own high horse*1) The only thing why such a tracker does not exist is that I'm currently extremely busy [img=/images/smiley/msn/teeth_smile.gif][/img] . I don't think that Richard has time (or will) to change this forum in that way that we have a separate tracker for lossless-only recordings. "Queenzone will never be in the same "class" as dime or TTD, but I don't see a way to change it" The only way is starting some new forum (outside queenzone) wich is moderated. We already had such a forum a while back... Would love to participate in such a new forum. Sharing can be done in Mediafire / rapidshare / dimeadozen. A tracker would be nice but is not really a must. |
| The Real Wizard 24.11.2008 15:51 |
JeffArse wrote: Without knowing any background information? I can read, mate. I've also been collecting for many years and dealt with many traders from all over the world, so don't give me that crap. Gang up session? You bring this all on yourself, pal. I respectfully disagree. It has been long established that Queenzone is not a place for people with new ideas, as some people who are attached to the ways of old will jump on them simply because the ways of old didn't crumble the place to dust... entirely. Of course I've been very outspoken, and many times people have resented it. But the fact is, everything I ever say is truthful, honest, and from the heart. All I've wanted to do (preferably with the help of others) is simply make this a better place so that people can enjoy recordings in the best quality possible, and also that it will be noticed in the wider collecting world as a place that can be looked to with confidence, where others from outside the community can confidently contribute to it. That's all there is to it. But time and time again, the detractors make it impossible. I fully realize I can't do this myself, and I've never felt like I "own the place". Not that I'm looking for accolades from anyone, but I have shared more confirmed gen recordings here than any other member. The fact that people still go after me simply because I'm outspoken still surprises me. Most of the detractors are either people who don't care about quality standards, or people who have other means of obtaining rare recordings. In other words, if confirmed gen recordings were never shared here again, both of those groups wouldn't lose out in any way by standing up to a key contributor of recordings, which in turn presents an element of selfishness (intended or not) on their part, as this would then be at the expense of the common downloader who doesn't seek recordings otherwise. |
| The Real Wizard 24.11.2008 15:52 |
Phoenix501 wrote: one post or 10,000 posts... what gives you the right to tell ANYBODY that they cannot join in? How do you expect to BETTER this site with an attitude like this towards new users. A fair question. Naturally, everyone is invited to join into any discussion as this is a forum for all users, but my point was that this new person attacked me for stating the truth about the way certain European Queen collectors conduct their business. I (nor anybody) should ever need to apologize for stating the truth. I did not name any names, so nobody should feel insulted by using general language like that. A fairer method, I think, would have been to ask for specific examples, instead of simply assuming I was talking bullocks. The only reason why I mentioned this group of European collectors is because one of them (whom I didn't specify whether or not was involved in any of the said "backstabbing" et all) was trying to convince me (and surely everyone else who is reading) that I was wrong about the fact that there are tapers out there who refuse to share their recordings because of what happens at this website, even though this person admitted themselves that they had never investigated the issue themselves. Where have I faulted in stating that? |
| The Real Wizard 24.11.2008 15:53 |
YourValentine wrote: It's a real pity that fans of a rock group cannot get along when there is so much generosity, willingness to share and readiness to invest time and effort on this website at the same time. I fully agree. So if that's the case, then why don't you share your copy of the Monterrey 81 DVD? |
| The Real Wizard 24.11.2008 15:53 |
JeffArse wrote: This whole conversation could be resolved with a few obvious changes. 1 - This forum is fair enough for general discussion but, let's be honest, is not the place to be used for sharing. A seperate forum should be created, using decent tracker software, for LOSSLESS material to be shared freely. There are multiple torrents currently on this site which I cannot download - even though they show has having seeders, there are none. We should have a reliable upgraded tracker. 2 - Lossless is the way to go. MP3's are fine for personal use but should not be shared on the new tracker unless no other version is available and it should be labelled as such. Lossless audio shows should be torrented with spectral charts showing they are lossless. 3 - A new forum should be properly moderated. 3 or 4 permanent moderators. No bitching, no arguing, no-one thinking they are better than anyone else. Bring the community together, not let it pull itself apart. Ratios could be used. Minimum post count before downloading shows, that kinda thing. 4 - A database needs to be formed as part of the new sharing forum to catalog all known circulating versions of shows. Screenshots, proper linage if known, that kinda stuff. Yes there are sites out there which have disc information, but there are a LOT of sites, with different info. See, these things may seem obvious and pretty straight forward... but they are fundamental to keeping a community together. My own Queen DVD collection (I don't collect audio) is undergoing a clearout because a few of the discs I have either got through snail mail trades or downloaded have been lossy - crap converted from DVD to a DIVX piece of crap, back to DVD again. We as a community need to stop this from happening. *gets off his own high horse* A few of us had proposed this exact thing in the past, and we got nowhere, because it "excludes the needs of people who don't care for lossless music," regardless of what repercussions there are in the grand scheme of things. Your high horse is a very good place to be. Sometimes it's the only place to be if people will listen to you. >4 - A database needs to be formed as part of the new sharing forum to catalog all known circulating versions of shows. As for this one particularly, I've documented such things as best as I can on my website, if you'd like to have a look. The reason why nobody is going to jump on you is because all you've done is draw out an excellent solution to the problems. I, however, in addition to that, have also tried to pinpoint the root of the problems, and that's where I get into hot water because, like I said above, the truth is never welcome when people are personally invested in it somehow. I like where this thread is heading now, so hopefully it will remain positive. |
| Jjeroen 24.11.2008 16:00 |
The only reason why I mentioned this group of European collectors is because one of them (whom I didn't specify whether or not was involved in any of the said "backstabbing" et all) was trying to convince me that I was wrong about the fact that there are tapers out there who refuse to share their recordings because of what happens at this website, even though this person admitted themselves that they had never investigated the issue themselves. Where have I faulted in stating that? You do realise that with this post you actually DO make it personal to someone - and without mentioning a name make it for everybody obvious who you are talking about? |
| Jjeroen 24.11.2008 16:06 |
Sir GH wrote:YourValentine wrote: It's a real pity that fans of a rock group cannot get along when there is so much generosity, willingness to share and readiness to invest time and effort on this website at the same time.I fully agree. So if that's the case, then why don't you share your copy of the Monterrey 81 DVD? Strange post, Bob. You are getting this into a totally different discussion now. If this is the attitude you want to defend (share ALL) - why don't YOU upload some of the stuff you have that has never reached QZ (yet)? |
| The Real Wizard 24.11.2008 16:13 |
Jjeroen wrote: If this is the attitude you want to defend (share ALL) - why don't YOU upload some of the stuff you have that has never reached QZ? I have shared plenty of low gen recordings here that were previously uncirculated, so I certainly have "paid my dues", for lack of a better term. Of course that doesn't mean I'll never share again, but I feel like I have contributed enough to the point that I can point out when someone else isn't when they easily could... especially when they're calling on others to do it as well. |
| The Real Wizard 24.11.2008 16:15 |
Jjeroen wrote:The only reason why I mentioned this group of European collectors is because one of them (whom I didn't specify whether or not was involved in any of the said "backstabbing" et all) was trying to convince me that I was wrong about the fact that there are tapers out there who refuse to share their recordings because of what happens at this website, even though this person admitted themselves that they had never investigated the issue themselves. Where have I faulted in stating that?You do realise that with this post you actually DO make it personal to someone - and without mentioning a name make it for everybody obvious who you are talking about? I certainly didn't create that system of secrecy, so please don't come down on me for simply stating that it exists. If someone doesn't want to be personally linked to their actions, then they should think twice about doing what they do. In these days of rapid communication on the internet, secrets will not remain secrets forever. What I'm also trying to point out is that this system of secrecy is very unusual compared to most other collecting communities, and is a fair chunk of the reason why there are so many Queen recordings with no lineage - because it's never passed along, as everyone else in the chain wants to remain anonymous. This is another problem that needs to be publically addressed. It is how other communities thrive, so I can't see why this one should be any different. That said, I'm really getting tired of people skipping the positive things I have to say, and immediately jumping on things that they don't like to see stated publically. But it surely states a lot about some people here, and how they gravitate towards conflict rather than solution. |
| Jjeroen 24.11.2008 16:22 |
Sir GH wrote:Jjeroen wrote: If this is the attitude you want to defend (share ALL) - why don't YOU upload some of the stuff you have that has never reached QZ?I have shared plenty of low gen recordings here that were previously uncirculated, so I certainly have "paid my dues", for lack of a better term. Of course that doesn't mean I'll never share again, but I feel like I have contributed enough to the point that I can point out when someone else isn't when they easily could... especially when they're calling on others to do it as well. And you think that the person you point at in your other post has NOT paid those dues? You truly believe that those other European collectors you mention haven't either? Please Bob... You are being silly now. |
| Jjeroen 24.11.2008 16:28 |
Sir GH wrote: That said, I'm really getting tired of people skipping the positive things I have to say, and immediately jumping on things that they don't like to see stated publically. But it surely states a lot about some people here, and how they gravitate towards conflict rather than solution. Well that's just how the world works, isn't it? If we would agree on things there would be no discussion at all. One can only agree with the truth - injustice, dishonesty, false information, difference of opinion, lack of some pieces of knowledge... etc etc... those are the things people tend to respond to. BTW - I did not come down on you for stating the secrecy thing. Please, don't come down on me for things that I don't say. But I sense that there is more to your attitude towards defending quality and lineage preservation then you state publicly... Well, to what you are writing in this topic anyway. What is it that is REALY bothering you? That people share MP3's in here? That non-queenfans, because of that, don't unearth their recordings? That queenfans, because of that don't unearth their recordings? That queenfans don't unearth their recordings for other reasons? That queenfans don't share their recordings for other reasons? That there is information out there that you (or the community) don't have? That there are recordings out there that you (or the community) don't know of? You're touching a lot of ground at the same time, I'm kind of lost. |
| The Real Wizard 24.11.2008 16:38 |
Jjeroen wrote: And you think that the person you point at in your other post has NOT paid those dues? You truly believe that those other European collectors you mention haven't either? I'm certainly not stating that others haven't. But if this is the positive place that YV wants it to be, then why not unearth something of true value to move things in a positive direction? |
| The Real Wizard 24.11.2008 16:41 |
Jjeroen wrote: BTW - I did not come down on you for stating the secrecy thing. Don't come down on me for things that I don't say. Sorry for the miscommunication then. |
| Jjeroen 24.11.2008 16:43 |
Sir GH wrote:Jjeroen wrote: And you think that the person you point at in your other post has NOT paid those dues? You truly believe that those other European collectors you mention haven't either?I'm certainly not stating that others haven't. But if this is the positive place that YV wants it to be, then why not unearth something of true value to move things in a positive direction? There has been life on this planet BEFORE Queenzone had a sharing forum! A lot of the people you point at have laid the very foundations of ALL queen-fans' collections! Please don't ask me to make a list of all the recordings that THOSE people are responsible for opening up YEARS ago! Or do you think that what you are trying to do nowadays (unearthing unheard recordings or better versions of recordings) is revolutionairy? |
| The Real Wizard 24.11.2008 16:45 |
Jjeroen wrote: What is it that is REALY bothering you? That people share MP3's in here? That non-queenfans, because of that, don't unearth their recordings? That queenfans, because of that don't unearth their recordings? That queenfans don't unearth their recordings for other reasons? That queenfans don't share their recordings for other reasons? That there is information out there that you (or the community) don't have? That there are recordings out there that you (or the community) don't know of? You're touching a lot of ground at the same time, I'm kind of lost. You're right, there certainly is a plurality of issues. The solution won't come overnight, but the kind of place JeffArse has suggested (be it here or elsewhere) certainly wouldn't hurt anything, and would be a step in the right direction. >A lot of the people you point at have laid the very foundations of ALL queen-fans' collections! Please don't ask me to make a list of all the recordings that THOSE people are responsible for opening up YEARS ago! Maybe if certain people didn't subscribe to said system of secrecy, their name would be passed along with the recording, and they would actually get credit for unearthing it. That's how it works pretty much everywhere else. In many cases, the name of the person who taped the Zeppelin show is known, never mind some collector who didn't tape it, who in the meantime is asking someone else not to spread it any further despite it not being theirs. So if they want some credit, then maybe they should speak up instead of trying to restrict the circulation of the recording. On that basis, there should be absolutely no reason to recognize anything they may do in the grand scheme of things, as they usually do it only as a means to expand their own collection, not to help anyone else. If not, then I'm sure we'd all love to hear some stories to clear things up. |
| The Real Wizard 24.11.2008 16:49 |
Jjeroen wrote: Or do you think that what you are trying to do nowadays (unearthing unheard recordings or better versions of recordings) is revolutionairy? >what *you* are trying to do nowadays Why the emphasis on me? It's tens of thousands of people all over the world wanting such a place to exchange music of their favourite band. It exists for Zeppelin, Zappa, Floyd, Nirvana, Who, U2, Rush, etc. collectors, but not for Queen collectors. Do you think if I was the only one who wanted it that I'd be spending/wasting all this time on it? So yes, for Queen collectors, it IS something new, because such a place doesn't exist yet, while it does exist for the collectors of the above artists I mentioned. So let's try to move this discussion in the right direction... not at anyone personally, but the subject at hand. |
| Mkls 24.11.2008 16:52 |
Ducksoup wrote:Jjeroen wrote: You mean Queenzone pre 2003? ;-)LOL :-) No I meant the forum wich led to the WhiteQueenRecords "label" only one DVD was made and after that everyone involved seemed to have lost interest... pitty because I think the forum was a good idea. it was www.queentraders.com ... not sure if its lost forever or not, i believe Pietermc, the owner wrote that it would be linked to queenarchives or something similar. There were a few interesting discoveries there worth to survive |
| Jjeroen 24.11.2008 16:56 |
Sir GH wrote:Jjeroen wrote: What is it that is REALY bothering you? That people share MP3's in here? That non-queenfans, because of that, don't unearth their recordings? That queenfans, because of that don't unearth their recordings? That queenfans don't unearth their recordings for other reasons? That queenfans don't share their recordings for other reasons? That there is information out there that you (or the community) don't have? That there are recordings out there that you (or the community) don't know of? You're touching a lot of ground at the same time, I'm kind of lost.You're right, there certainly is a plurality of issues. The solution won't come overnight, but the kind of place JeffArse has suggested (be it here or elsewhere) certainly wouldn't hurt anything, and would be a step in the right direction. Sure! You are totally right in the fact that it will help SOME of those issues! But it will NEVER EVER solve the majority of them... Don't get me wrong - the essence of what you started to defend first in this topic (trying to reach a quality standard) has my full blessing. It WOULD be a very very good thing, I believe. And I ALSO know that there are people out there (non-queenfan tapers) that hold their recordings because they perceive the attitude of some Queenfans towards that quality issue as disrespectfull and or not as appreciative as they would like to see. But those people are REALY in a vast minority if you look at the whole picture of what is out there and unshared. MOST people have different reasons - and they range from utter greed and selfishness to just keeping promisses with all possible things in between. Let alone all the recordings that stay hidden because people just lose interest in Queen collecting before they copied it for anybody. |
| Jjeroen 24.11.2008 16:57 |
Sir GH wrote:Jjeroen wrote: There has been life on this planet BEFORE Queenzone had a sharing forum! A lot of the people you point at have laid the very foundations of ALL queen-fans' collections! Please don't ask me to make a list of all the recordings that THOSE people are responsible for opening up YEARS ago! Or do you think that what you are trying to do nowadays (unearthing unheard recordings or better versions of recordings) is revolutionairy?>what *you* are trying to do nowadays Why the emphasis on me? It's tens of thousands of people all over the world wanting such a place to exchange music of their favourite band. It exists for Zeppelin, Zappa, Floyd, Nirvana, Who, U2, Rush, etc. collectors, but not for Queen collectors. Do you think if I was the only one who wanted it that I'd be spending/wasting all this time on it? So yes, for Queen collectors, it IS something new, because such a place doesn't exist yet, while it does exist for the collectors of the above artists I mentioned. So let's try to move this discussion in the right direction... not at anyone personally, but the subject at hand. Sorry Bob, my intention was to emphasise *nowadays* and it was about unearthing (or making) recordings - not about 'that' place... |
| The Real Wizard 24.11.2008 17:28 |
Jjeroen wrote: Sure! You are totally right in the fact that it will help SOME of those issues! But it will NEVER EVER solve the majority of them... That's just fine. A bit of progress is better than none at all. >Don't get me wrong - the essence of what you started to defend first in this topic (trying to reach a quality standard) has my full blessing. It WOULD be a very very good thing, I believe. And I ALSO know that there are people out there (non-queenfan tapers) that hold their recordings because they perceive the attitude of some Queenfans towards that quality issue as disrespectfull and or not as appreciative as they would like to see. Exactly. I'm glad we see eye to eye on that. This is what we should be focusing on then, in the interest of everyone who'd like to see something positive come from all this. >But those people are REALY in a vast minority if you look at the whole picture of what is out there and unshared. I actually have to disagree with you this one. I have heard from a very, very large number of people through my website (certainly not posters at this forum) who are part of this growing group of people. It's where things are headed these days. I have heard from many tapers of Queen shows, and now that I have some of these recordings, I'd love to get them out there. But it won't happen for quite a while until things improve a great deal. A forum where people realize the beauty of a new tape from 1978 is where these things should be shared, not a place where it could be reshared in mp3 the next day. Should caviar be served at a place where people are happy enough with fish sticks and can't be bothered to try caviar, even though it's being served next door? I look forward to the day when I (and surely others) can happily let these kinds of things out one by one. But it will probably be at a new place... not here. >MOST people have different reasons - and they range from utter greed and selfishness to just keeping promisses with all possible things in between. And again, I hope you understand, this is something that is almost completely unique to the Queen community versus all the others. It's such a shame that an elite few are slowing things down for the majority of people who simply would like to hear the music. And it's equally a shame that if and when new tapes come out, these few people will quietly download them and still won't contribute what they could contribute. |
| TimBHM 24.11.2008 17:42 |
Jjeroen wrote:Sir GH wrote:Sure! You are totally right in the fact that it will help SOME of those issues! But it will NEVER EVER solve the majority of them... Don't get me wrong - the essence of what you started to defend first in this topic (trying to reach a quality standard) has my full blessing. It WOULD be a very very good thing, I believe. And I ALSO know that there are people out there (non-queenfan tapers) that hold their recordings because they perceive the attitude of some Queenfans towards that quality issue as disrespectfull and or not as appreciative as they would like to see. But those people are REALY in a vast minority if you look at the whole picture of what is out there and unshared. MOST people have different reasons - and they range from utter greed and selfishness to just keeping promisses with all possible things in between.Jjeroen wrote: What is it that is REALY bothering you? That people share MP3's in here? That non-queenfans, because of that, don't unearth their recordings? That queenfans, because of that don't unearth their recordings? That queenfans don't unearth their recordings for other reasons? That queenfans don't share their recordings for other reasons? That there is information out there that you (or the community) don't have? That there are recordings out there that you (or the community) don't know of? You're touching a lot of ground at the same time, I'm kind of lost.You're right, there certainly is a plurality of issues. The solution won't come overnight, but the kind of place JeffArse has suggested (be it here or elsewhere) certainly wouldn't hurt anything, and would be a step in the right direction. Sorry if this seems arrogant as it's certainly not meant to be but can someone please explain to me why my suggestion won't work? 1 forum that's tightly moderated for the audiophiles and 1 forum that's a free-for-all for all and sundry who just want stuff to stick on their iPods. Surely such a system achieves most (if not all) of the goals we are talking about? Yes I know that the moderated forum will require lots of moderation but you already have one willing volunteer right here and I'm sure I saw another volunteer a couple of posts ago? |
| Jjeroen 25.11.2008 03:58 |
TimBHM wrote:Jjeroen wrote:Sorry if this seems arrogant as it's certainly not meant to be but can someone please explain to me why my suggestion won't work? 1 forum that's tightly moderated for the audiophiles and 1 forum that's a free-for-all for all and sundry who just want stuff to stick on their iPods. Surely such a system achieves most (if not all) of the goals we are talking about? Yes I know that the moderated forum will require lots of moderation but you already have one willing volunteer right here and I'm sure I saw another volunteer a couple of posts ago?Sir GH wrote:Sure! You are totally right in the fact that it will help SOME of those issues! But it will NEVER EVER solve the majority of them... Don't get me wrong - the essence of what you started to defend first in this topic (trying to reach a quality standard) has my full blessing. It WOULD be a very very good thing, I believe. And I ALSO know that there are people out there (non-queenfan tapers) that hold their recordings because they perceive the attitude of some Queenfans towards that quality issue as disrespectfull and or not as appreciative as they would like to see. But those people are REALY in a vast minority if you look at the whole picture of what is out there and unshared. MOST people have different reasons - and they range from utter greed and selfishness to just keeping promisses with all possible things in between.Jjeroen wrote: What is it that is REALY bothering you? That people share MP3's in here? That non-queenfans, because of that, don't unearth their recordings? That queenfans, because of that don't unearth their recordings? That queenfans don't unearth their recordings for other reasons? That queenfans don't share their recordings for other reasons? That there is information out there that you (or the community) don't have? That there are recordings out there that you (or the community) don't know of? You're touching a lot of ground at the same time, I'm kind of lost.You're right, there certainly is a plurality of issues. The solution won't come overnight, but the kind of place JeffArse has suggested (be it here or elsewhere) certainly wouldn't hurt anything, and would be a step in the right direction. Sorry Tim - Bob and I drifted away a bit. Your suggestion WILL work (well, it should anyway) and will be indeed a welcome thing for many fan. I was just trying to say -in regard of what SirGH said- that such a place will not bring EVERY recording that is out there but is now under covers or just around with a small group of people to the masses. Not by far. Oh btw Bob - I said it before: maybe there is more of those in the Queenworld in amount, I don't know, but it is definately not true that Zeppelin, Floyd, Zappa-communities (to name just a few that I happen to know a little bit about) don't have these issues with recordings that are unknown or under covers! Maybe you are just more knowledgable when it comes to Queen - and you KNOW of some of those recordings to excist because they are mentioned somewhere. Those other bands have them as well - it's just that you don't know of their excistance.. In that regard YES Zeppelin-Floyd-Zappa-fans happen to be a little more discrete then Queenfans. If something is not 'meant' to get out (for whatever reason) the posessors tend to be better able to keep their mouths shut - to not hold others a sausage in the face. |
| onevsion 25.11.2008 06:16 |
Miklos wrote:Ducksoup wrote:it was www.queentraders.com ... not sure if its lost forever or not, i believe Pietermc, the owner wrote that it would be linked to queenarchives or something similar. There were a few interesting discoveries there worth to surviveJjeroen wrote: You mean Queenzone pre 2003? ;-)LOL :-) No I meant the forum wich led to the WhiteQueenRecords "label" only one DVD was made and after that everyone involved seemed to have lost interest... pitty because I think the forum was a good idea. Ah yes. Thanks. Hope it will return someday. It was fun while it lasted.... |
| YourValentine 25.11.2008 07:04 |
@ TimBHM: the reason why a "tightly moderated" forum on Queenzone is very unlikely is because the website owner has strong opinions about the freedom of speech and has always (for over 10 years now) upheld the principle of self-moderation. It's up to the users how they use the service he provides. Richard has never turned a blind eye to the wishes of the users, therefore I am sure he would create a quality sharing forum which allows only for quality recordings to be shared and discussed but I do not believe he would make it a closed community a la Royal Orleans because that would not be in compliance with his ideas of this forum. Therefore there would have to be a compromise but apparently a number of users are not happy with that, we have discussed this issue on previous occasions - unfortunately with no result. @Bob: you did not "name any names" but you did name me, so I want to answer you: the "elite few" or "certain people" who allegedly are so exclusive (and European if I understand that correctly) simply follow their hobby in the way they seem fit. I am really sorry if you do not approve but that is your problem, you do not rule the world and what other people do is none of your business. I do not speak for anyone else but for myself I can say that I do not see the slightest necessity to justify myself to you or any other website user. I make my own choices and I rest assured that the people on Queenzone and in the hub judge me for what I have done here the last 7 years and not some unfounded accusations. Maybe you are not welcome by "certain people" because you are so totally unable to respect other peoples' rules and wishes, think you own the truth and everybody has to do it your way. Instead of blaming it on others and spreading conspiracy theories you should consider the possibility that you closed many doors yourself. You have earned a lot of praise for your uploads on Queenzone and rightfully so, nobody will deny that. It does not make you the "leader of the pack", though, because there is no "pack", just individuals who share a hobby and have their own wishes and priorities and don't ask your approval. I have been running against many walls myself and it's just not healthy to get bitter about recordings not being available. Sooner or later everything "comes out" and if not, the world won't collapse over a missing recording. |
| TimBHM 25.11.2008 08:10 |
YourValentine wrote: @ TimBHM: the reason why a "tightly moderated" forum on Queenzone is very unlikely is because the website owner has strong opinions about the freedom of speech and has always (for over 10 years now) upheld the principle of self-moderation. It's up to the users how they use the service he provides. Richard has never turned a blind eye to the wishes of the users, therefore I am sure he would create a quality sharing forum which allows only for quality recordings to be shared and discussed but I do not believe he would make it a closed community a la Royal Orleans because that would not be in compliance with his ideas of this forum. Therefore there would have to be a compromise but apparently a number of users are not happy with that, we have discussed this issue on previous occasions - unfortunately with no result. Well I never said I wanted to create a closed community - not even close. My point about the quality forum was that it should of course be freely viewable by all and sundry but that maybe posters or just posts should be vetted by moderators first to make sure that they satisfy whatever criteria the community deem are necessary for the forum. |
| on my way up 25.11.2008 09:02 |
YourValentine wrote:
@ TimBHM: the reason why a "tightly moderated" forum on Queenzone is very unlikely is because the website owner has strong opinions about the freedom of speech and has always (for over 10 years now) upheld the principle of self-moderation. It's up to the users how they use the service he provides. Richard has never turned a blind eye to the wishes of the users, therefore I am sure he would create a quality sharing forum which allows only for quality recordings to be shared and discussed but I do not believe he would make it a closed community a la Royal Orleans because that would not be in compliance with his ideas of this forum. Therefore there would have to be a compromise but apparently a number of users are not happy with that, we have discussed this issue on previous occasions - unfortunately with no result.
@Bob: you did not "name any names" but you did name me, so I want to answer you: the "elite few" or "certain people" who allegedly are so exclusive (and European if I understand that correctly) simply follow their hobby in the way they seem fit. I am really sorry if you do not approve but that is your problem, you do not rule the world and what other people do is none of your business. I do not speak for anyone else but for myself I can say that I do not see the slightest necessity to justify myself to you or any other website user. I make my own choices and I rest assured that the people on Queenzone and in the hub judge me for what I have done here the last 7 years and not some unfounded accusations. Maybe you are not welcome by "certain people" because you are so totally unable to respect other peoples' rules and wishes, think you own the truth and everybody has to do it your way. Instead of blaming it on others and spreading conspiracy theories you should consider the possibility that you closed many doors yourself. You have earned a lot of praise for your uploads on Queenzone and rightfully so, nobody will deny that. It does not make you the "leader of the pack", though, because there is no "pack", just individuals who share a hobby and have their own wishes and priorities and don't ask your approval. I have been running against many walls myself and it's just not healthy to get bitter about recordings not being available. Sooner or later everything "comes out" and if not, the world won't collapse over a missing recording.
I want to respond to your @bob part. What you're saying there is that there's no community but individuals who decide themselves how they arrange their collecting activities. That's the situation at hand. What Bob tries to do(if I understand correctly) is make a community of which everyone benefits. If we pull together as a community and share the recordings we can all enjoy these! Isn't that much cooler? I know there will always be people who keep things for themselves but if we ALL(you, Bob, I,everyone who has a recording that might interest many people) commit to what I just wrote it will be the minority.It looks like you're trading strategy brings you nice things and I understand you want to keep the system as it is(since you benfit from it). But wouldn't it be nice if other people, who just want to analyse Queen's performances and enjoy as much Queen live music as possible, be able aswell to enjoy these things that now are under wraps since their are individuals who decide what happens with those? You have a problem with rules for this ''community'(of which you deny in a way the existence in quoted post) but agree with people who force you to NOT share or trade certain things(is this educated guess I just did right or not?). Sorry to say so, but that doesn't sound very logic to me,nor do I find it very democratic. |
| YourValentine 25.11.2008 09:57 |
>>"It looks like you're trading strategy brings you nice things and I understand you want to keep the system as it is(since you benfit from it)." That's not what I said at all, it's not what I think, either. There is no universal "system" - there are people who have very diverse habits, rules, wishes and you choose if you deal with these people or not. If you deal with them pretending to accept their rules but you don't, the relationship will be very short lived. It's all your decision and nobody can tell you what to do. It has nothing to do with democracy. One thing is sure: I won't discuss my own collecting habits on the forum for the pure reason that it's nobody's business. >>"You have a problem with rules for this ''community'(of which you deny in a way the existence in quoted post) but agree with people who force you to NOT share or trade certain things(is this educated guess I just did right or not?). Sorry to say so, but that doesn't sound very logic to me,nor do I find it very democratic." Again - it's not what I said at all. I have no problems with rules, on the contrary. If Bob had a forum with restrictive rules I would still like to be a part of it and I would play by the rules of the forum owner because I have the free will to join or not to join and if I join I would play by the rules, that is the normal thing to do. He would provide for the server, he would bear the legal risk and therefore it would be his choice and his right to define the rules. It's what Richard calls "benevolent dictatorship" :) Also - nobody forces me to share or not share anything, that's just a very distorted idea. When I want to swap a recording with another collector and I do not like his conditions, I do not swap but if I accept the conditions I stand by my word because I accepted these conditions on my free will. After all, this is just the internet and I am not accountable to Bob or you or anyone else about my "collecting strategy". I am here on Queenzone to help sharing recordings for everybody. It includes my participation of the hub where I keep sharing recordings for literally generations of new fans for 5 years 24 hours a day and 7 days a week. Sharing is a passion for me as is collecting but it's not the same. Sharing must be rewarding in itself or you do not have the perseverance to continue sharing. Collecting, on the other hand, has a selfish element and there will always be this point of conflict between the sharing world and the collecting world. For most downloaders it does not matter at all, they get free recordings and many of them are simply happy with that while others start collecting and come to the dark side ;) |
| The Real Wizard 25.11.2008 10:34 |
YourValentine wrote: you do not rule the world Maybe you are not welcome by "certain people" because you are so totally unable to respect other peoples' rules and wishes, think you own the truth and everybody has to do it your way. Instead of blaming it on others and spreading conspiracy theories you should consider the possibility that you closed many doors yourself. You simply hate the fact that I'm saying it like it is, so you're spinning it my way now... it's beyond transparent. >For most downloaders it does not matter at all, they get free recordings and many of them are simply happy with that while others start collecting and come to the dark side ;) EXACTLY... which confirms something I said above. It doesn't matter to you, because the average downloader doesn't know the difference. But it matters to me, because it makes me happy to know that that average downloader is getting the best possible recording of that particular show. That's the difference between you and I. Thank you for stating it so clearly and concisely for everyone to see. |
| YourValentine 25.11.2008 10:46 |
>>"It doesn't matter to you, because the average downloader doesn't know the difference. But it matters to me, because it makes me happy to know that that average downloader is getting the best possible recording of that particular show. That's the difference between you and I." I said that the downloaders mostly do not care about collecting issues, I was not saying that minor quality is "good enough" for downloaders. Sorry if that was so easy to misunderstand. |
| The Real Wizard 25.11.2008 10:48 |
Whatever... The point is, you're trying to spin it negatively on me, saying how I want to "rule the world and do it my way", yet you're trying to convince everyone you can that the only way to get rare/confirmed gen recordings is to come to the "dark side"... aka conduct business YOUR way. This is not the case, and a lossless only forum will prove/achieve that. The jig is up... you lose. Have a great day. |
| YourValentine 25.11.2008 11:05 |
"yet you're trying to convince everyone you can that the only way to get rare/confirmed gen recordings is to come to the "dark side"... aka conduct business YOUR way." Absolutely not. I always pledged for diversity. It's you who wants to "regulate" the collecting world according to your ideas. You are so bitter that you do not even get a harmless joke. |
| Holly2003 25.11.2008 12:20 |
It seems to me that this website is run the way its owner wants it to run and that's really the end of the discussion. If anyone is not happy with that, they should start their own forum/sharing website and if it's any good people will go there instead. Isn't that how the market is supposed to work? On a side note, some of you take these things far too seriously. I have more than enough Queen concerts from every tour to keep me happy. If someone doesn't want to share something that hasnt yet been released, that's their own decision and fine by me. |
| pittrek 25.11.2008 13:49 |
OK, I've just spent almost an hour with reading this thread and I simply must say something. I tried to be silent simply because I consider both of the main "actors" of this thread my friends, but I found out that it's the reason why I decided to write this :) Bob + Barbara - I have absolutely no idea why are you arguing :) Did you try to read the whole thread without any emotions ? Mr. Spock should teach you it. The funny thing is that you both want the same thing, do you realise that ? @YV - Bob's not a diplomat, he simply says what he feels so if you (YV) could stop "reading between the lines" you would realise that there's no reason to feel offended. At least I didn't find something offensive, just "not diplomatic". @SirGH - Well your comment about Monterrey surprised me, I thought this video exists only in the hands of Mexican collectors. However from what I know about Barbara, if she could share the video, she would do it, I don't doubt it. Every game has some rules, and unfortunately also this game called "collecting". These rules suck but they are unfortunately necessary, simply because the nature of the Queen community, which is very closed. You all are right, it's something rotten in this country, and it's not Johny Rotten. As pointed out by many people, Queen collectors are different then other bands fans, since they have some problem to give something to the public without getting something else for it (that's a paraphrase from a TTD thread). But really see no solution for it, since there is no machine which can change people's minds :) @all who want a new forum - why don't you do it yourself ? It's so easy to critisize Richard, but it's pretty hard to create something, isn't it ? Sorry for all errors and strange syntax & thoughts, I've spent today 12 hours at work, but I hope the goal of my post is clear :) "Make Love Not War" .... |
| The Real Wizard 25.11.2008 23:28 |
YourValentine wrote: It's you who wants to "regulate" the collecting world according to your ideas. Yes Barbara, you're absolutely right. I am, in fact, the very first person in the history of online music sharing who has proposed a lossless-only forum to do so. I am also the first person who has ever aimed to have the average downloader know they're getting a great copy, not just any copy. My apologies for my ignorance and innovative ideas. >You are so bitter that you do not even get a harmless joke. Telling the average downloader that they will never hear anything from your bounty is not a harmless joke. It's waving your collection at people, disguised as a joke. Revealing truth doesn't make me bitter. It makes me observant. You just label it as bitterness because you don't like it. |
| The Real Wizard 26.11.2008 02:27 |
>Collecting, on the other hand, has a selfish element To you and most people you deal with, yes. To most collectors in other communities, however, collecting and sharing are one and the same. Someone tracks down a new recording, and they share it online. That's generally the way it works these days. It's a beautiful thing, if you'd care to have a look. >and there will always be this point of conflict between the sharing world and the collecting world. This gap has diminished greatly in almost every other trading community, but is comparatively magnified here by your ilk of collectors. So keep hoarding away, and keep letting everyone know you're doing it, too. I suppose everyone should thank you graciously for contributing to said "conflict". |
| YourValentine 26.11.2008 04:41 |
Yes, Bob, I give up. It's all my fault. I keep the Queen community split up and create conflict wherever I go. I "hoard" unheard of rare goodies for sheer selfishness and prevent you from unifying the Queen world for the greater good. Damn. |
| on my way up 26.11.2008 05:43 |
YourValentine wrote: Yes, Bob, I give up. It's all my fault. I keep the Queen community split up and create conflict wherever I go. I "hoard" unheard of rare goodies for sheer selfishness and prevent you from unifying the Queen world for the greater good. Damn. |
| Jjeroen 26.11.2008 06:00 |
No Barbara - you don't take action to prevent MP3's from being shared on Queenzone, which is far far worse. Also you do not allow this place to be turned into Bobzone - how dare you critisize the mighty mr know all! All disbelievers must die. You should be stoned for that! |
| Rick 26.11.2008 10:15 |
This is getting ridiculous. I say we should revive www.queentraders.com. Right now! I always loved those discussions. Just my opinion of course. Who's good at building websites? :P |
| Saint Jiub 26.11.2008 23:03 |
Jjeroen wrote: No Barbara - you don't take action to prevent MP3's from being shared on Queenzone, which is far far worse. Also you do not allow this place to be turned into Bobzone - how dare you critisize the mighty mr know all! All disbelievers must die. You should be stoned for that! I am not naming any names, but I recall a prominent, mostly respected, Canadian, FLAC sharer on Queenzone saying something like: "mp3 sharers and downloaders need to be eliminated from QZ." |
| eYe 27.11.2008 00:08 |
I am all for freedom, nobody should be banned for having another opinion, but I also understand Sir GH's point and the need for strict rules to preserve the quality of all the precious recordings among the fan community. I am no taper or trader, just a common downloader who would like to have all recordings in best possible quality and without his website I would be lost in the chaos of the queenzone sharing forum (the hub is a lot worse though). Queenzone already has seperate sections for general and serious discussions. I think two sharing sections like that, general and quality/lossless, would already help a lot. But it's not only the free spirit of queenzone, what prevents people from sharing their recordings here at queenzone. Pretty sure it's also the limited features and the annoying bugs. Posting working links is a real pain and we all know what happens when you make a mistake and need to edit the first post of a thread. Many announcements end up with no subject and not working links, no fun for the sharer. Just look what happend to the best of the best threads, such a great project, almost destroyed by the forum bugs. |
| Saint Jiub 27.11.2008 01:19 |
eYe wrote: I am all for freedom, nobody should be banned for having another opinion, but I also understand Sir GH's point and the need for strict rules to preserve the quality of all the precious recordings among the fan community. I am no taper or trader, just a common downloader who would like to have all recordings in best possible quality and without his website I would be lost in the chaos of the queenzone sharing forum (the hub is a lot worse though). Queenzone already has seperate sections for general and serious discussions. I think two sharing sections like that, general and quality/lossless, would already help a lot. But it's not only the free spirit of queenzone, what prevents people from sharing their recordings here at queenzone. Pretty sure it's also the limited features and the annoying bugs. Posting working links is a real pain and we all know what happens when you make a mistake and need to edit the first post of a thread. Many announcements end up with no subject and not working links, no fun for the sharer. Just look what happend to the best of the best threads, such a great project, almost destroyed by the forum bugs. If the "benevolent dictator" (Richard ), actually allowed a democratic vote on this site, the militant FLAC crowd would vote overwhelmingly against the inclusion of a separate lossy section adjacent to a lossless section. As for the bugs ... no good deed goes unpunished. Richard is working his ass off trying to improve this site and add more features, but judging by the complaints, his work does not seem to be appreciated by many people. I suspect that the seeds for these bugs were planted years ago when the presumably canned message board software template, that Richard may have used to re-create this website, unexpectedly turned out to be somewhat defective. |
| TimBHM 27.11.2008 04:12 |
Panchgani wrote:eYe wrote: I am all for freedom, nobody should be banned for having another opinion, but I also understand Sir GH's point and the need for strict rules to preserve the quality of all the precious recordings among the fan community. I am no taper or trader, just a common downloader who would like to have all recordings in best possible quality and without his website I would be lost in the chaos of the queenzone sharing forum (the hub is a lot worse though). Queenzone already has seperate sections for general and serious discussions. I think two sharing sections like that, general and quality/lossless, would already help a lot. But it's not only the free spirit of queenzone, what prevents people from sharing their recordings here at queenzone. Pretty sure it's also the limited features and the annoying bugs. Posting working links is a real pain and we all know what happens when you make a mistake and need to edit the first post of a thread. Many announcements end up with no subject and not working links, no fun for the sharer. Just look what happend to the best of the best threads, such a great project, almost destroyed by the forum bugs.If the "benevolent dictator" (Richard ), actually allowed a democratic vote on this site, the militant FLAC crowd would vote overwhelmingly against the inclusion of a separate lossy section adjacent to a lossless section. That's one hell of a sweeping generalisation which I really don't think you can make. I consider myself a part of the "militant FLAC crowd" but I am also a pragmatist. We know there are many recordings which simply aren't widely available in lossless... yet. Do I still want to hear those performances? Of course! Will I ditch the mp3 as soon as a lossless upgrade becomes available? Of course! But that doesn't mean I won't be happy with the mp3 for now if nothing else is available. In an ideal world we would not have people sharing lossy forms of recordings which are already widely available here in a lossless form and that's the real issue. When something is already available here in a better quality with full information why would anybody be happy with an inferior copy suddenly popping up? However of more importance to me, and I expect to others like Bob, is that we still have a ridiculous number of recordings floating around with no lineage/source/taper information and I really do think that this is something the community could fix and quite quickly if the will was there. |
| frank39 27.11.2008 04:21 |
The same old story over and over again......since years. New are the complaints about sharing dime uploads on QZ as well. Where is the problem? I got a lot of Zep, Genesis, Zappa, Springsteen stuff from dime, which originally came from the several fan websites like Zappateers etc. There were no complaints at all about sharing them on Dime as well. So why on QZ? And: Dime is limited to roundabout 10.000 members, all the rest has no chance to dl the Dime gems. So why should Dime torrents not be spread outside of Dime? As long as the upload is left unaltered, I see no problem at all. |
| onevsion 27.11.2008 04:23 |
Rick wrote: This is getting ridiculous. I say we should revive www.queentraders.com. Right now! I always loved those discussions. Just my opinion of course. Who's good at building websites? :P Good idea. I suck at building websites. :-( |
| onevsion 27.11.2008 04:25 |
frank39 wrote: The same old story over and over again......since years. New are the complaints about sharing dime uploads on QZ as well. Where is the problem? I got a lot of Zep, Genesis, Zappa, Springsteen stuff from dime, which originally came from the several fan websites like Zappateers etc. There were no complaints at all about sharing them on Dime as well. So why on QZ? And: Dime is limited to roundabout 10.000 members, all the rest has no chance to dl the Dime gems. So why should Dime torrents not be spread outside of Dime? As long as the upload is left unaltered, I see no problem at all. 100.000 |
| pittrek 27.11.2008 04:53 |
Rick wrote: Who's good at building websites? :P What exactly would you need ? :-) |
| Double-U 27.11.2008 05:31 |
Please wait untill I have finished my time-machine. Then I'll travel back to 1970 to the city of Truro at first and will record this show and any following concert for myself or even film it with a Digicam. The security won't find anything because they not even know what kind of magic those little electrical pieces are. Damn - I should stop eating these pills! ....or maybe not.... W. |
| Saint Jiub 27.11.2008 07:36 |
TimBHM wrote:Panchgani wrote:That's one hell of a sweeping generalisation which I really don't think you can make. I consider myself a part of the "militant FLAC crowd" but I am also a pragmatist. We know there are many recordings which simply aren't widely available in lossless... yet. Do I still want to hear those performances? Of course! Will I ditch the mp3 as soon as a lossless upgrade becomes available? Of course! But that doesn't mean I won't be happy with the mp3 for now if nothing else is available. In an ideal world we would not have people sharing lossy forms of recordings which are already widely available here in a lossless form and that's the real issue. When something is already available here in a better quality with full information why would anybody be happy with an inferior copy suddenly popping up? However of more importance to me, and I expect to others like Bob, is that we still have a ridiculous number of recordings floating around with no lineage/source/taper information and I really do think that this is something the community could fix and quite quickly if the will was there.eYe wrote: I am all for freedom, nobody should be banned for having another opinion, but I also understand Sir GH's point and the need for strict rules to preserve the quality of all the precious recordings among the fan community. I am no taper or trader, just a common downloader who would like to have all recordings in best possible quality and without his website I would be lost in the chaos of the queenzone sharing forum (the hub is a lot worse though). Queenzone already has seperate sections for general and serious discussions. I think two sharing sections like that, general and quality/lossless, would already help a lot. But it's not only the free spirit of queenzone, what prevents people from sharing their recordings here at queenzone. Pretty sure it's also the limited features and the annoying bugs. Posting working links is a real pain and we all know what happens when you make a mistake and need to edit the first post of a thread. Many announcements end up with no subject and not working links, no fun for the sharer. Just look what happend to the best of the best threads, such a great project, almost destroyed by the forum bugs.If the "benevolent dictator" (Richard ), actually allowed a democratic vote on this site, the militant FLAC crowd would vote overwhelmingly against the inclusion of a separate lossy section adjacent to a lossless section. I consider the pro-flac crowd and the militant flac crowd to be different. I would consider someone to be part of the militant flac crowd, if they were insistant that Richard ban lossy material on HIS site. By that definition, I would assume that you are part of the pro-flac crowd rather than part of the militant flac crowd. |
