| Fone Bone 19.11.2008 08:01 |
... in the US during first week of release OK, we knew about the chart position (#47) but the number of copies moved is atrocious. Cradle Of Filth debuted a new album on the same week with similar numbers ! Cradle Of Filth as big as Queen in the US, oh my Fat chance for an arena tour over there ... PS : Figures released by Variety |
| bryony 19.11.2008 09:49 |
Well.... The new CD is POOR This is the reason why I'm afraid. |
| e-man 19.11.2008 11:08 |
I remember reading about a norwegian band who did well (by norwegian standards) in the US in the late 80s. their album just cracked the top 50, and sold about 200 000 records during the course of a few weeks. without getting anywhere near the top 40 how the times have changed |
| onevsion 19.11.2008 12:18 |
12.000 in the first week is NOTHING in the States. Total flop. No wonder if you make such a bucket full of piss and call it the cosmos rocks. It's rubbish.... |
| PieterMC 19.11.2008 12:57 |
Ducksoup wrote: 12.000 in the first week is NOTHING in the States. Total flop. No wonder if you make such a bucket full of piss and call it the cosmos rocks. It's rubbish.... Considering that you can't actually find it in most stores, and that most people don't even know about it I'm surprised it sold that many copies. |
| August R. 19.11.2008 13:18 |
Fone Bone wrote: Fat chance for an arena tour over there ... Do you really think it's because of the new material they sell out big arenas here in Europe? |
| onevsion 19.11.2008 13:41 |
PieterMC wrote:Ducksoup wrote: 12.000 in the first week is NOTHING in the States. Total flop. No wonder if you make such a bucket full of piss and call it the cosmos rocks. It's rubbish....Considering that you can't actually find it in most stores, and that most people don't even know about it I'm surprised it sold that many copies. It's just the dedicated fans who bought it. 12.000 copies isn't really that much in your enormous country. I mean, let's do the math: US 300 million inhabitants. 12.000 copies sold in the first week. My country (The Netherlands) 16 million inhabitants. 300 / 16 = 18,75 In that ratio it would mean 640 sold copies sold in the first week in my country (12.000 / 18,75) That's really nothing. If I was a Q+PR member I would be ashamed.... |
| onevsion 19.11.2008 13:58 |
August R. wrote:Fone Bone wrote: Fat chance for an arena tour over there ...Do you really think it's because of the new material they sell out big arenas here in Europe? LOL! indeed.... All those people came to the concerts because they where hoping Q+PR would play Still Burning, Call Me and C-lebrity.... great great rock classics... :-/ |
| PieterMC 19.11.2008 14:54 |
Ducksoup wrote:PieterMC wrote:It's just the dedicated fans who bought it. 12.000 copies isn't really that much in your enormous country. I mean, let's do the math: US 300 million inhabitants. 12.000 copies sold in the first week. My country (The Netherlands) 16 million inhabitants. 300 / 16 = 18,75 In that ratio it would mean 640 sold copies sold in the first week in my country (12.000 / 18,75) That's really nothing. If I was a Q+PR member I would be ashamed....Ducksoup wrote: 12.000 in the first week is NOTHING in the States. Total flop. No wonder if you make such a bucket full of piss and call it the cosmos rocks. It's rubbish....Considering that you can't actually find it in most stores, and that most people don't even know about it I'm surprised it sold that many copies. Fair points. However, how can people buy it if nobody knows about it? If I were not a Queen fan I would have no idea this album existed. You have to advertise. It's not my country btw.. I just live here. :-) |
| April 19.11.2008 15:36 |
I think it's not that bad. Let's wait for another week. |
| Legy 19.11.2008 15:59 |
See what happens when you don't promote things properly. Had the band decided to hit the late night circut and gone on SNL things would be different. I know they're touring South America, but a quick trip to Leno, Letterman, Conan and SNL will do wonders to their album sales. |
| Rick 19.11.2008 16:03 |
Ah yes, another "Kick the Cosmos"-topic. Love those. Yes, we all know Brian and Roger should retire and stop making music. That's what we all want, oh yeah. Rock on. *raises one fist in the sky, just like poor old Fred* |
| guild93 19.11.2008 22:12 |
Maybe it will be deleted quickly and become quite valuable in the future (like Mad Bad and Dangerous). Start stocking up! |
| Jjeroen 20.11.2008 04:56 |
August R. wrote:Fone Bone wrote: Fat chance for an arena tour over there ...Do you really think it's because of the new material they sell out big arenas here in Europe? See, that's another thing: they DON't! Only a handfull of Eu shows were sold out - and they play mostly SMALL venue's this time. (A lot of numbers you see about attendence-records are in fact CAPACITY records of the venue.) Rotterdam, Luxemburg, 2 German shows and some UK shows, is all that was sold out. Still the propaganda machine speaks about a 'sold out' tour. The album was a flop in Europe as well, wether we like the album or not. Also here it was the same thing; NO advertising whatsoever! The album spent TWO weeks in the charts over here - for such a Queen-minded country as the Netherlands that is a LAUGH! In number that actually IS not more then a couple of thousand copy's. (Hell, the single has not even been available here!) They just think that they don't need it - that the Queen brand will sell by itsself. It's typical modern day Queen-laziness. Just like they believe that they don't need to rehearse for a show... That's why a lot of shows went wrong in 2005, especially in the beginning of the tour. That's why they did not play any more new songs on the last tour. They again did not rehearse properly. After they screwed up Warboys a couple of times and then totally ruined Time To Shine, it was all done with experimenting. (I'm drifting off, sorry ;-)) They are anyway realy overrating themselves all the time. ALSO when they were recording the CR album. Let this be a lesson to them. Because YES, the Queen brand will sell itsself to the hardcore fans. But anno 2008 Queen is no longer a brandname that will go beyond that, UNLESS they come up with something extraordinary. Not something decent (which is the max I can make from the CR album) but something REALY good. If TCR had been REALY good - it would have found it's way to the masses anyway; with or without band-initiatied promotion. It that has nothing to do with getting either positive or negative reviews in the press either. |
| The Mir@cle 20.11.2008 07:31 |
You said it all Jeroen... But maybe they're not searching for big sales anymore? Maybe they just wanted to make some new music for the real fans, who surely would buy it? About the venues which weren't sold out. I talked with people in Barcelona and they told me that loads of people didn't even know that Queen + PR was going to play there. Three years ago, there were radio commercials. But this year… nothing. That's the mean reason why they weren't sold out I think. But is it laziness? Or are they just ok with 2000 less fans. In the end the real fans kept coming. |
| QueenSite 20.11.2008 14:12 |
12.000 would be bad even for an indie band... |
| Benn 21.11.2008 05:22 |
Jeroen & The Mir@cle, re: >But maybe they're not searching for big sales anymore? Maybe they just wanted to make some new music for the real fans, who surely would buy it? To be totally honest, I think you've hit the nail right on the head there in many ways. Roger said, right from the very start that if you don't like it, don't buy it. I'm sure that there are plenty of people who think that the whole thing is wonderful. Equally, they are plenty who think it's good in parts or think the whole thing is a "bucket of piss". What I struggle to understand is their arrogance at charging the ticet prices they do for what is, essentially, a new band playing cover versions and a few original tracks. QPL have been their typical arrogant selves and booked venues through promotors trading on the "Queen" brand as opposed to the "Queen & Paul Rodgers" name. This has enabled them to book venues whch are far larger than the actual demand warrants. That arrogance has forced Q&PR into designing a set list that matches what the promotors excepct (heavily reliant on Queen covers) as opposed to *what Q&PR want to play*. A mate of mine whose been a fan for 30-odd years went to the O2 show in London and said that he had the best time he's ever had at a show and that the sound was great too. I chuckled back and commented that you could pop into plenty of local pubs on a Queen tribute band night and hear the same material played almost as well for about 1/5th of the price of the whole evening. Now, if they'd gone out and specifically worked through some small venues (1500 - 3000 seats) I would have been more than happy to oblige them with my hard-earned. Places like Brixton Academy or Shepherds Bush Empire etc - places that you can actually see the whites of their eyes as opposed to matchstick men. More involved and exciting for performer and audience! If there's a second album, I'll be very surprised. If it's not in the next 18 months, then I think we can safely say that the flame will have died. Perhaps then we can look forward to a flood of re-re-re-masters hitting the market before the rarities sets come if 2030......... |
| Jjeroen 21.11.2008 06:28 |
Queen not going for big sales anymore? Come on! The Queen brand was and is one of the biggest moneymakemachines in the industrie. Roger's remark is just a cliche, every artist that fears critisism says something like that. And this time they KNEW they would get critisism, wether the album would be good or bad. So that remark says nothing, realy... And about ticketprices; they are not 'made up' by the band - they get fixed by the promotors in each country. (Although they do influence what the price could be) It works like this: Queen wants to tour. They create the show, see how much the elements they want to use during the shows cost, calculate the wages of the crew and of course their own... out comes an amount of money. (In QPR's case, a realistic guess compared to other bands would be that they are around the one million euro's booking price). That is what QPR costs. That's what needs to be paid by whomever to book the band. They then offer themselves to promoters in the different countries. They in their turn then think of a fitting location - iaw guess the amount of attendees the show will attrckt and find a venue that fits. They then look what the band costs, what the venue costs, what their financial costs are and what their part of the pie should be, make a nice calculation with all these numbers and out comes the ticketprice. In the case of bands of the level of Queen, the band themselves don't actually feel the empty seats. The promotor does! As the promotor paid that million to book Queen. Queen is not going to lose anything. But the next time the band comes, the promotor will be very carefull. He might raise the price of tickets to be sure that he gets his money back. Because Queen come with a show that does not fit even smaller venues. The show itsself is too big to physically fit. Or a promotor might just decide not to book the band at all. Leaving some countries without any show. (Is this what happened to Ireland on this tour for instance??) |
| Mr. Scully 21.11.2008 06:52 |
Jeroen, actually quite a lot of shows were sold out. Besides those you mentioned also Prague, Zurich, Vienna and I think at least one more German gig. But overall I agree - laziness. No promotion, no rehearsing... (and almost no interviews this time). |
| brians wig 21.11.2008 07:32 |
12,000 copies is atrocious, BUT, lets face it. If I was from the USA I wouldn't be waiting a month for the album, I'd be buying my copy from England or somewhere else. I regularly buy my fave US artists stuff from the States because it comes out first over there before it gets a UK release! Basically QPL fucked up as usual. |
| kosimodo 21.11.2008 16:27 |
Of course i bought it the day it came out.. Listened 2 it twice... and thought well..eh.. nothing special. It is lying somewhere. Only when Paul comes in in SINT i get a feeling of wow.... Thats all (!?) and thats not much. I still can listen 2 whatever album of Queen and wonder how they could make such a beautifull music. TCR could be whatever rockband. It is no Queen. |
| kosimodo 21.11.2008 16:29 |
i wouldnt recommend it 2 anyone... But can play it as background music at a party.. Which i never would do with Queen, cause it becomes 2 much on the foreground, steeling the evening;) |
| August R. 24.11.2008 14:10 |
Jjeroen wrote:August R. wrote:See, that's another thing: they DON't! Only a handfull of Eu shows were sold out - and they play mostly SMALL venue's this time. (A lot of numbers you see about attendence-records are in fact CAPACITY records of the venue.) Rotterdam, Luxemburg, 2 German shows and some UK shows, is all that was sold out. Still the propaganda machine speaks about a 'sold out' tour. The album was a flop in Europe as well, wether we like the album or not. Also here it was the same thing; NO advertising whatsoever! The album spent TWO weeks in the charts over here - for such a Queen-minded country as the Netherlands that is a LAUGH! In number that actually IS not more then a couple of thousand copy's. (Hell, the single has not even been available here!) They just think that they don't need it - that the Queen brand will sell by itsself. It's typical modern day Queen-laziness. Just like they believe that they don't need to rehearse for a show... That's why a lot of shows went wrong in 2005, especially in the beginning of the tour. That's why they did not play any more new songs on the last tour. They again did not rehearse properly. After they screwed up Warboys a couple of times and then totally ruined Time To Shine, it was all done with experimenting. (I'm drifting off, sorry ;-)) They are anyway realy overrating themselves all the time. ALSO when they were recording the CR album. Let this be a lesson to them. Because YES, the Queen brand will sell itsself to the hardcore fans. But anno 2008 Queen is no longer a brandname that will go beyond that, UNLESS they come up with something extraordinary. Not something decent (which is the max I can make from the CR album) but something REALY good. If TCR had been REALY good - it would have found it's way to the masses anyway; with or without band-initiatied promotion. It that has nothing to do with getting either positive or negative reviews in the press either.Fone Bone wrote: Fat chance for an arena tour over there ...Do you really think it's because of the new material they sell out big arenas here in Europe? I think you missed my point. I was simpy stating that the reason they play 10,000+ arenas is NOT the sales of their new album but the fact that they're doing the old hits (and, of course using the old name, but we dont' wanna start that convesation again, do we...) ;) |
| Jjeroen 24.11.2008 15:46 |
No, I did not miss the point. :-) You amaze yourself in your first post that the album sold so badly - I am just trying to analyse why. I just added the tour to it, because it suffers artistically from the same demons. Laziness in this case. If you want to call it like that. Or overrating themselves, taking things too lightly. It all falls in the same cathegorie - for the album as well as the tour - if they would give their 100% they would come up with better results and better successes. How can anyone ever expect to make a great, cohesive album if you spend only three times one month over a course of a year and a half for writing, jamming, recording, mixing, mastering... everything...?! Even if they spent three successive months together it would already have been better as a whole. That is not how bands make albums. Bands don't work like that - they can shout that they are a new band as much as they want, they are not behaving like one. It's a PROJECT.... (Okay okay - I am drifting away AGAIN! ;-)...) Again: if the album would have been better (and I am once more not saying it is BAD!) and they would have actually put some proper time and work in promoting it, it would have sold better. (Or what other reason for TCR to flop did you have in mind when you started this topic?) |
| vadenuez 24.11.2008 16:22 |
Little studio time, little promotion. Little desire to do things the right way. They claim to be a new band yet they keep being old Queen in concert. People do feel that things aren't going on smoothly, that there's a lack of commitment. I'm not sure how Paul Rodgers is feeling nowadays. I think it was supposed to be a 50 / 50 band... something like "Queen with PR as a vocalist" and in the same time "PR with Queen as a backup band". But the latter didn't happen. Everybody (press, fans) have said "it's Queen's new singer", "he's the new Freddie", or worse "he's replacing Freddie"... no one ever said "it's PR with the new Bad Company". And that's very unfair to him, because clearly he's given time and quality to the new project in the same amount as Brian & Roger. They should have stood up and said out loud: "we aren't Queen anymore. We are Queen+Paul Rodgers 2008 version. Come to our concerts and find out what's new, what are we offering you NOW. We're playing our new music and if you behave, we'll give you a couple of old hits from our former band as an encore." |
| Rick 24.11.2008 16:42 |
kosimodo wrote:
TCR could be whatever rockband. It is no Queen.
Indeed. It's Queen + Paul Rodgers. Glad that I could help! |
| bulsara76 24.11.2008 20:47 |
Current sold numbers, current musics charts have nothing to compare with the past. Time has changed since internet & computer copies. The real parameter of modern musical success it's in the gigs attendance |
| August R. 26.11.2008 04:03 |
Jjeroen wrote: No, I did not miss the point. :-) You amaze yourself in your first post that the album sold so badly - I am just trying to analyse why. Well, you missed something 'cos I didn't start this topic. :) |
| Jjeroen 26.11.2008 04:34 |
August R. wrote:Jjeroen wrote: No, I did not miss the point. :-) You amaze yourself in your first post that the album sold so badly - I am just trying to analyse why.Well, you missed something 'cos I didn't start this topic. :) LOL! Yeah... you win! ;-) |
| IReallyLoveQueen 23.08.2010 15:57 |
I LOVE QUEEN |