| mike hunt 19.10.2008 05:29 |
Why does almost every queen album have weak production?....Jazz could have been one of the best classic rock albums of all time if it sounded better, another example of this horrible production is Innuendo. A great album that sounds dry and thin. I have no problem with ANATO and SHA, but most of them sound pretty bad. I think they were all drunk and stoned when they mixed the Jazz album, it's a shame because the songs were awsome. |
| tjbarrett96 19.10.2008 18:40 |
mike hunt wrote: Why does almost every queen album have weak production?....Jazz could have been one of the best classic rock albums of all time if it sounded better, another example of this horrible production is Innuendo. A great album that sounds dry and thin. I have no problem with ANATO and SHA, but most of them sound pretty bad. I think they were all drunk and stoned when they mixed the Jazz album, it's a shame because the songs were awsome. Innuendo? Bad production?? JAZZ??? I think they both sound great! Jazz has a deliberate rough-sounding (for lack of a better phrase) effect to it, and Innuendo is Queen's [second-to-] last attempt to release a compilation of wonderful music. They're both beautifully produced albums. |
| theCro 19.10.2008 19:14 |
mike hunt wrote: Why does almost every queen album have weak production?....Jazz could have been one of the best classic rock albums of all time if it sounded better, another example of this horrible production is Innuendo. A great album that sounds dry and thin. I have no problem with ANATO and SHA, but most of them sound pretty bad. I think they were all drunk and stoned when they mixed the Jazz album, it's a shame because the songs were awsome. did you think about buying new speakers? |
| Winter Land Man 19.10.2008 19:43 |
On Innuendo, I think I Can't Live With You could of used better production. |
| Marcos Napier 19.10.2008 21:31 |
Production is one thing, mixing is another. A well produced album can be ruined by the mixing. |
| mike hunt 20.10.2008 01:47 |
theCro wrote:mike hunt wrote: Why does almost every queen album have weak production?....Jazz could have been one of the best classic rock albums of all time if it sounded better, another example of this horrible production is Innuendo. A great album that sounds dry and thin. I have no problem with ANATO and SHA, but most of them sound pretty bad. I think they were all drunk and stoned when they mixed the Jazz album, it's a shame because the songs were awsome.did you think about buying new speakers? I don't think so. Many people like the live version of songs from hot space and Jazz because of the production of these albums were not good. Jazz is grossly underated by queen fans, and the only reason for this is it's thin sound. Listen to the live version of 'let me entertain you' then listen to the studio version. Also, I think roger's best drum work was on Jazz, and was ruined by it's sound. |
| liam 20.10.2008 10:41 |
Jazz sounds horribly thin and empty as does Innuendo, the hitman is so thin and lifeless for such a heavy riff. |
| mike hunt 20.10.2008 10:47 |
liam wrote: Jazz sounds horribly thin and empty as does Innuendo, the hitman is so thin and lifeless for such a heavy riff. exactly, how about the drums. The drums sound so weak for such a heavy song. I love both albums to death, but these albums need to be remastered. |
| Daniel vZ 20.10.2008 10:57 |
The worst thing on Jazz is the sound of the bass (is there any?), drums a close second (especially the base). I think Jazz sounds way thinner than Innuendo. |
| Togg 20.10.2008 11:32 |
Personally I have always loved the production on both of those albums, however they both (in fact most Queen albums) could do with simply being remastered to a higher volume when compared with many of the CD's around today. When Jazz first came out as an LP it sounded very cool at the time, but it is badly in need of remastering now I think. Time is a funny thing, when it was released I remeber thinking how cool the drum sound was... now it does seem weak, but I still love the sound, FBG's tom roll is just wonderful when turned up full blast. |
| louvox 20.10.2008 11:43 |
mike hunt wrote: Why does almost every queen album have weak production?....Jazz could have been one of the best classic rock albums of all time if it sounded better, another example of this horrible production is Innuendo. A great album that sounds dry and thin. I have no problem with ANATO and SHA, but most of them sound pretty bad. I think they were all drunk and stoned when they mixed the Jazz album, it's a shame because the songs were awsome. Jazz is one of their weaker efforts. They bring back Roy Thomas Baker as producer, but his touch is nowhere to be found. Jazz sounds unfocused and contains one of their worst songs (More of that Jazz) the production in my opinion sounds “OK” at best. The track listing looks like no thought at all was put into it. Innuendo is a stellar effort (other than the one hiccup “Delilah”) The production is superb. It’s too bad it took such a tragedy to bring this about. |
| Daniel vZ 20.10.2008 11:52 |
louvox wrote:
Jazz sounds unfocused and contains one of their worst songs (More of that Jazz).You say More Of that Jazz, I say Fun It. ;) Innuendo is a stellar effort (other than the one hiccup “Delilah”) The production is superb. It’s too bad it took such a tragedy to bring this about. Why do so many people don't like Delilah, it's a nice change for all the heavy/emotional lyrics in the other songs. |
| Rick 20.10.2008 12:17 |
The best drum sound is on NOTW in my opinion. Especially in songs like Get Down Make Love and It's Late. Edit: I think the bass sound on Jazz is fantastic, especially in Jealousy. It's so melodic, something only John could deliver. In general, it sounds decent to me. |
| john bodega 20.10.2008 13:35 |
Innuendo isn't one of their better sounding albums. The drums sound terrible on some tracks, and "The Hitman" sounds like it's coming out of a tin can. |
| pittrek 20.10.2008 15:12 |
OK I thought I'm the only weird person who thinks that Innuendo sounds terrible (with 2 exceptions - Innuendo and TSMGO), but I see I'm not the only one |
| Adolfo and the spiders from Mercury 20.10.2008 15:22 |
why dont you better post at a site for a band with albums produced up to your standards? |
| Rick 20.10.2008 15:31 |
Adolfo wrote: why dont you better post at a site for a band with albums produced up to your standards? Not everyone is a supporter of Stepfordism. Besides, Queen has done some great productions as well: ANATO, ADATR and Hot Space. That's just my opinion :) |
| Marcos Napier 20.10.2008 16:19 |
Jazz would definitely have its sound improved with a good remastering. Although some leveling to make it sound louder would kinda make it lose some of its tricks - I think I read somewhere Brian or Freddie saying that Mustapha was meant to sound quieter at first then BOOOM. I'm not sure if with today's standards of making everything as loud as possible it would be noticed. A decent loud version of Dead on Time will be great as well. |
| ITSM 20.10.2008 20:27 |
I like Delilah a lot! One of the best songs on Innuendo I think. Along with I'm going slightly mad and Don't try so hard... |
| Winter Land Man 20.10.2008 22:36 |
ITSM wrote: I like Delilah a lot! One of the best songs on Innuendo I think. Along with I'm going slightly mad and Don't try so hard... I think Delilah is a great song too. I however, enjoy the demo more! But I like the finished version too, but the demo had a better intro. |
| TheWrist 20.10.2008 23:36 |
WTF!!! , why don't you all get good speakers!!.. Innuendo is one of the best sounding Queen albums!! |
| mike hunt 21.10.2008 01:58 |
louvox wrote:mike hunt wrote: Why does almost every queen album have weak production?....Jazz could have been one of the best classic rock albums of all time if it sounded better, another example of this horrible production is Innuendo. A great album that sounds dry and thin. I have no problem with ANATO and SHA, but most of them sound pretty bad. I think they were all drunk and stoned when they mixed the Jazz album, it's a shame because the songs were awsome.Jazz is one of their weaker efforts. They bring back Roy Thomas Baker as producer, but his touch is nowhere to be found. Jazz sounds unfocused and contains one of their worst songs (More of that Jazz) the production in my opinion sounds “OK” at best. The track listing looks like no thought at all was put into it. Innuendo is a stellar effort (other than the one hiccup “Delilah”) The production is superb. It’s too bad it took such a tragedy to bring this about. I disagree, Jazz is a good album that could have been great with better production. I do agree that 'more of that Jazz, and fun it' are horrible and should have been left off the album. Mustapha is brilliant. I also like every song On Innuendo, and that includes 'Delilah.' |
| mike hunt 21.10.2008 02:02 |
Adolfo wrote: why dont you better post at a site for a band with albums produced up to your standards? I post here because I'm a queen fanatic, and my problem is only to do with production, But I love both albums. |
| Matias Merçeauroix 21.10.2008 03:04 |
WTFFFFFFFFF!???????????!?!?!?! They both sound great, what the fucking fuck are you talking about? Cheers, Hor |
| Rick 21.10.2008 10:20 |
I guess it also depends on what sound system you've got. For example: I have an excellent sounding Harmon Kardon set, including an active subwoofer. This means you can adjust it to your own wishes. Everything sounds crystal clear with a good amount of bass. To sum things up: I have no complaints or whatsoever. :P |
| thomasquinn 32989 21.10.2008 13:10 |
The Jazz production is debatable, but anyone branding Innuendo poorly produced is clearly out of his/her damn mind! |
| Wiley 21.10.2008 17:06 |
I have a bit of a problem with the Synths on Innuendo and also, somehow (and I don't know how to explain it), some instruments' parts sound "distant" or "soul-less". In many songs you know Freddie is singing his heart out, reaching notes that most rock singers can only whistle, but they don't have quite the dramatic effect like the "O-on with the show" part in TSMGO (which I think is great). Also, you have great riffs by Brian buried in the mix: Riffs that would have made a fortune for AC/DC or Metallica if they were more prominent. I had this problem with Queen II. There's like a million cool guitar bits in there and most are buried under ten layers of Deacy amp fuzzyness. It took me a while to get into this album. Now I think it is a work of genius. Take out most of the guitars, place some "synth strings" and "warm synth pads" instead and that's Innuendo for me. Songs like I Can't live with you, Ride the Wild Wind and The Hitman could have been SO MUCH BETTER. I like this album. Really. It's just a comment. The Queen albums that have a better sound to my ears are: ANATO, ADATR, Sheer Heart Attack, two thirds of News of the World and -of course- HOT SPACE! :D |
| Marcos Napier 21.10.2008 17:55 |
When playing with the master tracks of several songs I noticed that some of them are way better sounding if the excesses were cut (why 5 tracks of the same guitar?) or even rearranged (I've even mentioned this in the specific topic about the remasters). Sometimes to just add things on top of the others doesn't make a difference and only makes it worse. The problem with Innuendo is that its sound is a bit the typical 80's sound, with the synths available back then, same problem happens in Miracle... string pads that are common since the beginning of the synths are much more "real" now, and don't sound too artificial. If there was a way for it to be "updated", would be great. But Jazz, I think it's just a matter of proper remastering. I remember I noticed a huge difference mostly in the drum sounds from the old CDs I had (EMI UK, local releases) from these in the Crown Jewels. The drums were distorted in most of the CDs, but in the CJ it was a bit more clear and the distortion was nearly gone, at least where it was more evident. If we could get some remastering like it was done for the Beatles' Love or Let it Be Naked... |
| Winter Land Man 21.10.2008 22:23 |
mike hunt wrote:louvox wrote:I disagree, Jazz is a good album that could have been great with better production. I do agree that 'more of that Jazz, and fun it' are horrible and should have been left off the album. Mustapha is brilliant. I also like every song On Innuendo, and that includes 'Delilah.'mike hunt wrote: Why does almost every queen album have weak production?....Jazz could have been one of the best classic rock albums of all time if it sounded better, another example of this horrible production is Innuendo. A great album that sounds dry and thin. I have no problem with ANATO and SHA, but most of them sound pretty bad. I think they were all drunk and stoned when they mixed the Jazz album, it's a shame because the songs were awsome.Jazz is one of their weaker efforts. They bring back Roy Thomas Baker as producer, but his touch is nowhere to be found. Jazz sounds unfocused and contains one of their worst songs (More of that Jazz) the production in my opinion sounds “OK” at best. The track listing looks like no thought at all was put into it. Innuendo is a stellar effort (other than the one hiccup “Delilah”) The production is superb. It’s too bad it took such a tragedy to bring this about. Jazz was a great album as well. There could have of course been improvements. |
| john bodega 22.10.2008 01:57 |
It must be either my speakers or something in my water, then. I think some bits of Innuendo sound great but in particular, "The Hitman" just sounds God-awful. If someone wants to point me to a sound system (or just sensible EQ-ing) that'll make it sound as good as you're all hearing, then please do. !! |
| Winter Land Man 22.10.2008 02:04 |
Zebonka12 wrote: It must be either my speakers or something in my water, then. I think some bits of Innuendo sound great but in particular, "The Hitman" just sounds God-awful. If someone wants to point me to a sound system (or just sensible EQ-ing) that'll make it sound as good as you're all hearing, then please do. !! I've always liked The Hitman if I'm in a pissed off attitude where I like the heavy guitar playing and the vocals dripping with venom. BUT, during my regular mood (most of the time), the music seems too un-sophisticated for Queen. It seems like someone could cut 30 seconds out of that song, without someone noticing. I can't even tell the difference between the LP edit and the CD version. |
| boca 22.10.2008 21:16 |
mike hunt wrote: Why does almost every queen album have weak production?....Jazz could have been one of the best classic rock albums of all time if it sounded better, another example of this horrible production is Innuendo. A great album that sounds dry and thin. I have no problem with ANATO and SHA, but most of them sound pretty bad. I think they were all drunk and stoned when they mixed the Jazz album, it's a shame because the songs were awsome. I don't agree with you |
| Charlie Brown 23.10.2008 00:54 |
Mike can you give us some specific examples of what you believe to be weak production on the two albums. |
| thomasquinn 32989 23.10.2008 06:14 |
Zebonka12 wrote: (or just sensible EQ-ing) The "Classic V" should do just fine: slight cut in the midrange, low-end boost (80hz and 300hz in particular), and an incremental boost over 2khz. |
| boca 23.10.2008 06:18 |
Just today I bought digitally remastered Jazz, and it sounds fantastic..and besides all, quality of sound was never criteria if the album should be voted best ever, etc. quality of the songs is most important thing. otherwise, all elvis presley albums would be voted as shit... |
| mike hunt 23.10.2008 12:56 |
boca wrote: Just today I bought digitally remastered Jazz, and it sounds fantastic..and besides all, quality of sound was never criteria if the album should be voted best ever, etc. quality of the songs is most important thing. otherwise, all elvis presley albums would be voted as shit... I already said that I love both albums, and also think Jazz is an underated gem. Yes, the songs are the most important thing, of course that's true. I'm not ranting about this, but I just would love both of these albums to be remastered. a fuller sound for especially Jazz. Innuendo only in spots like 'the hitman' and 'I can't live with you' the drums sound weak for such a heavy track. I'm not a big fan of brian's back to the light, but listen to cozy' powell's drum work on the heavy songs on that album, that's how a drummer suppose to sound when playing heavy music. Listen to roger's playing on the sheer heart attack album, the drumming sounds great. Listen to how weak the drums sound on headlong and the hitman, I can't live with you. Again, both of these albums are awsome, both very much underated, but I wish they sounded a little better. A fuller sound. At least a few people agree with me. |
| LucTonnerre 23.10.2008 16:26 |
JAZZ is in my personal top 5 Queen albums.I've never had any problems with the production. I just love the moment the guitars burst into the chorus in MUSTAPHA - raw power.Also DEAD ON TIME is unbelievable. JAZZ has some of the greatest songs on it in my opinion. And I even love FUN IT and MORE OF THAT JAZZ. INNUENDO is maybe the best of the 80s-90s era, but songs like THE HITMAN or especially DELILAH always make me use the skip button. DELILAH might just be the worst effort they ever made... oh wait, there's the complete MADE IN HEAVEN album... |
| cmsdrums 23.10.2008 16:59 |
The remasters on the Japanese mini vinyl releases sound (for most of the albums) to me to be the best remasters we have so far. The drum sound on Jazz leaves a bit to be desired - mainly the sanre really as it is very different to his usual sound and very 'un Roger'. He also started experimenting a lot with roto toms at that time, and although I really like them in the right place, I feel that they are overused on Jazz; there is not too much in the way of big, low toms like on A Day At The Races, or well runed 'room' like toms from News of The World. There is also a difference in the panning of the kit to usual which really makes it stand out. Apart from the drums, I think that Jazz is actually a pretty good sounding album, and certainly the bass guitar is some of John's best work, alongside ....Races. I do think that because the drums sound SO differerent to what had gone before, this tends to colour or cloud people's judgement as to what the rest of the mix actually sounds like. Innuendo is strange, in that some of the tracks are mixed and mastered beautifully,whereas others (The Hitman as some have already pointed out) sound quite poor. At the time that was recorded there was a penchant for rock records to be dripped in loads of reverb, and sometimes this is the case here in places that it's not needed. The production however is, as usual with Queen, generally superb, and tracks like All God's People, Headlong, Don't Try So Hard are very good indeed. Funnily enough, I think that Hot Space (certainly the most recent remaster) sounds very good - it may not actually be my cup of tea in places, but for the style of music and sound that they were going for, the sound mixing and production is bang on (the mix of electric and acoustic drums on Staying Power, the very natural acoustic drums on Life Is Real, the tight pop drums on Dancer, the bass guitar on Put Out The Fire etc..) Obviously as a drummer these are bits that stand out to my ears, but as a producer and mixer too, the rest of the stuff is pretty darn good also! |
| Mercury 90 24.10.2008 09:13 |
I noticed, that Queen did something very special on Jazz, that the songs develope the volume twoars the climax... which I think is pretty cool.... for example mustapha beginsvery quite till the bride stereo guitars enter and almost every song has this kind of "effect" in it! and I siply love it! |
| mike hunt 24.10.2008 10:56 |
LucTonnerre wrote: JAZZ is in my personal top 5 Queen albums.I've never had any problems with the production. I just love the moment the guitars burst into the chorus in MUSTAPHA - raw power.Also DEAD ON TIME is unbelievable. JAZZ has some of the greatest songs on it in my opinion. And I even love FUN IT and MORE OF THAT JAZZ. INNUENDO is maybe the best of the 80s-90s era, but songs like THE HITMAN or especially DELILAH always make me use the skip button. DELILAH might just be the worst effort they ever made... oh wait, there's the complete MADE IN HEAVEN album... mustapha is pure brilliance, but what's your problem with made in heaven?....it's a pretty good album. |
| AmeriQueen 24.10.2008 16:15 |
On one hand I think you are daft in bashing the production value of those two albums. On the other it's strange that it would be those two because they strangely fall lower on my list than most, and then the other albums around that time. Maybe there is some similarity that lacks a sense of common greatness with the other two you mentioned. Jazz to me seemeed like a bundle of random album tracks, all reflecting similarities with all the earlier 5 albums, and introducing synths, oddening the guitar treble in some way, and giving a random playing with no common theme, and little individual standout compared with other albums. Innuendo seems to be filled with slow trail ends that slowly extinguish several seconds later than normal. It also seems to employ a very professionally polished studio mixture of Queen's continuously developing studio sounds, giving oldschool rock roots a full dosage into a Game to Miracle progression from Mack to David Richards, a progression that further and further considered technology as welcome utility. The album is fine, but I kind of laugh at the fact that most Queen fans and surveys post it nothing short of a clear superiority to The Miracle. Innuendo seems to have far too popular a fame in lieu of Days of our Lives and The Show Must Go On so closely coinciding with Freddie's death. Mother Love was too after the fact or it would have been just as powerful a song in the conscience of Queen, but the better, more emotional posthumous album came 4 years after Freddie's death, and it was not entirely original material beyond the Queen versions of certain solo tracks. Tha being said, I think you are on to something. Those albums contain some common depressant absent the other Queen albums. |
| LucTonnerre 24.10.2008 17:12 |
@Mike Hunt:My problem with MADE IN HEAVEN?It's a shit album, that's all. I don't even know why I've bought it (well, I got it at a sale for about 2 Euros).I can't listen to it. Really bad songs in my opinion. |
| Marcos Napier 24.10.2008 20:58 |
Jazz to me seemeed like a bundle of random album tracks, all reflecting similarities with all the earlier 5 albums, and introducing synths Excuse me? |
| boca 25.10.2008 04:32 |
mike hunt wrote: boca wrote: Just today I bought digitally remastered Jazz, and it sounds fantastic..and besides all, quality of sound was never criteria if the album should be voted best ever, etc. quality of the songs is most important thing. otherwise, all elvis presley albums would be voted as shit...I already said that I love both albums, and also think Jazz is an underated gem. Yes, the songs are the most important thing, of course that's true. I'm not ranting about this, but I just would love both of these albums to be remastered. a fuller sound for especially Jazz. Innuendo only in spots like 'the hitman' and 'I can't live with you' the drums sound weak for such a heavy track. I'm not a big fan of brian's back to the light, but listen to cozy' powell's drum work on the heavy songs on that album, that's how a drummer suppose to sound when playing heavy music. Listen to roger's playing on the sheer heart attack album, the drumming sounds great. Listen to how weak the drums sound on headlong and the hitman, I can't live with you. Again, both of these albums are awsome, both very much underated, but I wish they sounded a little better. A fuller sound. At least a few people agree with me. yes, but i think drums on the innuendo are computer drums, not real ones. maybe someone can confirm this |
| mike hunt 26.10.2008 01:18 |
boca wrote:yes, but i think drums on the innuendo are computer drums, not real ones. maybe someone can confirm thismike hunt wrote: boca wrote: Just today I bought digitally remastered Jazz, and it sounds fantastic..and besides all, quality of sound was never criteria if the album should be voted best ever, etc. quality of the songs is most important thing. otherwise, all elvis presley albums would be voted as shit...I already said that I love both albums, and also think Jazz is an underated gem. Yes, the songs are the most important thing, of course that's true. I'm not ranting about this, but I just would love both of these albums to be remastered. a fuller sound for especially Jazz. Innuendo only in spots like 'the hitman' and 'I can't live with you' the drums sound weak for such a heavy track. I'm not a big fan of brian's back to the light, but listen to cozy' powell's drum work on the heavy songs on that album, that's how a drummer suppose to sound when playing heavy music. Listen to roger's playing on the sheer heart attack album, the drumming sounds great. Listen to how weak the drums sound on headlong and the hitman, I can't live with you. Again, both of these albums are awsome, both very much underated, but I wish they sounded a little better. A fuller sound. At least a few people agree with me. Doesn't that make my point?... Just Questioning if the album isn't real drums should tell you something is wrong with the sound. the only part of the album that I know was computer drums was ' I can't live with you.' |
| k-m 27.10.2008 14:16 |
I'm surprised with some opinions on "Innuendo" album. I think it sounds really well. Some records are deliberately produced more quietly, which I think is the case with "Innuendo". You just need to turn it up to hear all the beautiful sounds. The only two songs that don't sound good for me are "I Can't Live With You" and "The Hitman". Another thing that surprises me is the general dislike for "Delilah". I think it's sweet:) |