| deltazulu 06.09.2008 07:47 |
Is it just me? Or are all the Snow Producciones titles poor quality... |
| Wilki Amieva 06.09.2008 10:21 |
They tend to use poor masters. ...And, sometimes, sooo lossy (VCD, mp3, etc). Moreover, they like to crop the image to widescreen and upmix everything to 5.1 as if it was really an improvement. Sometimes, they choose absurd audio encoding options, e.g: they unwrapped an original mono source to 'suround' (sic) and put it in the DVD as Dolby Digital 5.1 and also DD 2.0 while the original 1.0 in PCM would have been a much better option and also would have taken a lot lesser bitstream. Definetely, no 'tech people'. They make nice menues though! |
| Rick 06.09.2008 10:41 |
Does anyone own the Hyde Park 1976 remastered & widescreen version? I've seen a clip on Youtube and it looks/sounds great, but I don't want to be fooled by just a sample. Sample: link |
| victor fleitas 06.09.2008 10:42 |
You can download more samples from here... link Anyway... its better than nothing... |
| pittrek 06.09.2008 12:46 |
Some of his DVDs are great, some of them aren't |
| earwig 06.09.2008 14:12 |
Yeah, they're mostly brilliant. My Houston 77 DVD looks great but has been 'filmized' which I hate as it was obviously shot on video. I think Hernan deserves a lot of thanks and respect actually. |
| deltazulu 06.09.2008 20:56 |
all i know is the couple of titles i have from sp have not been great. i'd love to see a better copy of hyde park... and i'd really like to know what the best copy of rainbow is. the sp version can't be the best one out there. it just can't be. is there no comprehensive list comparing all the various options? the zep crowd has been doing that for years... i'm shocked that there's no guide to the best copies of queen shows. |
| The Real Wizard 07.09.2008 00:05 |
deltazulu wrote: all i know is the couple of titles i have from sp have not been great. i'd love to see a better copy of hyde park... and i'd really like to know what the best copy of rainbow is. the sp version can't be the best one out there. it just can't be. is there no comprehensive list comparing all the various options? the zep crowd has been doing that for years... i'm shocked that there's no guide to the best copies of queen shows.Have a look at my website, link. I've got a list for audio, but the video list is not nearly as detailed simply because most people haven't kept track of the lineage of their videos. In fact, many of the circulating DVDs are lossy, so there's often no point in tracing the lineage anyway. 'Tis a shame. |
| Rick 07.09.2008 05:05 |
deltazulu wrote: all i know is the couple of titles i have from sp have not been great. i'd love to see a better copy of hyde park... and i'd really like to know what the best copy of rainbow is. the sp version can't be the best one out there. it just can't be. is there no comprehensive list comparing all the various options? the zep crowd has been doing that for years... i'm shocked that there's no guide to the best copies of queen shows.Which titles do you have? |
| deltazulu 07.09.2008 06:57 |
it's the early stuff i'm most interested in making sure i own the best available copies. i finally have the room 101 release of hammersmith and i think it's great. but my sp copy of rainbow is very blocky. i have this copy of hyde park link |
| Rick 07.09.2008 07:22 |
Yes I have that version as well. I think it's the best version available so far? |
| deltazulu 08.09.2008 07:04 |
if you mean that version of hyde park... it's still pretty rough....
Rick wrote: Yes I have that version as well. I think it's the best version available so far? |
| Rick 08.09.2008 09:13 |
True, especially sound-wise. |
| tonimau 08.09.2008 09:26 |
From what I've seen in Youtube, Snow Producciones version of Hyde Park seems to have the best sound. It's a shame it isn't shared here, I don't have it myself. |
| deltazulu 08.09.2008 18:51 |
how does the sp pic compare with the Hyde Park version that's shared here?
tonimau wrote: From what I've seen in Youtube, Snow Producciones version of Hyde Park seems to have the best sound. It's a shame it isn't shared here, I don't have it myself. |
| tonimau 08.09.2008 20:01 |
deltazulu wrote: how does the sp pic compare with the Hyde Park version that's shared here?I really can't say if the picture quality is better. What I really noticed is that the EQ sounds better and the drums are better in Snow's version.tonimau wrote: From what I've seen in Youtube, Snow Producciones version of Hyde Park seems to have the best sound. It's a shame it isn't shared here, I don't have it myself. I have a QTV version , I don't know if it was the one shared here. It has 320kb/s sound quality, image is ok but I really don't have any real means of comparison. Search for the Liar footage on youtube from Snowproducciones and make your judgement, knowing Youtube always screws up the sound. See it here link Snow's version is 16:9 so parts of the screen have been cut. That is why there is no clock or QTV symbol. I think it sounds just a little bit better than my QTV DVD, but it may be my personal opinion. My QTV has a lot more hiss. |
| deltazulu 09.09.2008 17:14 |
it's pretty good...although it's tough to compare something off youtube with something on my dvd player. i prefer having logos and timecodes to cropping... although the pic looks about the same... i guess it was hard to make it any worse! |
| YourValentine 09.09.2008 20:46 |
"In fact, many of the circulating DVDs are lossy, so there's often no point in tracing the lineage anyway" DVDs are lossy by definition, Bob. VOB files are the same as mpg2 for DVD, i.e. compressed files. |
| The Real Wizard 10.09.2008 00:28 |
YourValentine wrote: "In fact, many of the circulating DVDs are lossy, so there's often no point in tracing the lineage anyway" DVDs are lossy by definition, Bob. VOB files are the same as mpg2 for DVD, i.e. compressed files.Of course, it depends on how far you go with the definition. But I'm talking about svcd to dvd... rudimentary things like that. |
| YourValentine 10.09.2008 06:16 |
You find such SVCDs to DVDs mostly on compilations but it has nothing to do with lineage. On your website you have concert videos labelled "audience video master" to DVD but in most cases we do not know the owner of the master. In the 1980s the concerts were probably filmed with a CVC recorder, VHS C video camera or even Video 8 from 1985 on but the tapes were only 30 mins and 60 mins respectively, so the complete "original" was already a copy and most digital copies we have are not from the "original copy" but at least one generation below. That's not the fault of the original owner or the fault of the people who swapped because they had to copy their tapes and they lost quality through copying, nobody could help that. As far as I know there is only one Queen concert from the 80s available on DVD that comes from the original copy and that is Sydney 1985. But even in the case of Sydney a copy wrongly labelled as "master copy" is circulating. All other known concerts come from gen. copies. If someone has other info, please post it:) I would love to see a master of a Queen concert from the 1980s. |
| pittrek 10.09.2008 06:24 |
YourValentine wrote: As far as I know there is only one Queen concert from the 80s available on DVD that comes from the original copy and that is Sydney 1985. But even in the case of Sydney a copy wrongly labelled as "master copy" is circulating. All other known concerts come from gen. copies.That's interesting . So you mean that there are 2 versions of Sydney "master" circulating ? One a true master copy and one a "fake" higher generation "master copy" ? If yes, how can I know which version do I have ? Do you have some screenshots for the versions ? |
| YourValentine 10.09.2008 07:16 |
I don't think the genuine master is circulating at all. Unless you got your copy directly from the tape owner it is not from the master, it's from a copy. |
| The Real Wizard 10.09.2008 12:18 |
YourValentine wrote: You find such SVCDs to DVDs mostly on compilations but it has nothing to do with lineage.If something in svcd quality is burned to DVD, chances are the person who did it is not someone who cares about quality preservation, and thus they won't pass along the lineage to the next person stating that they made such a conversion. So the two issues certainly are directly related... particularly if it's a DVD that will circulate to hundreds or even thousands of people. the complete "original" was already a copy and most digital copies we have are not from the "original copy" but at least one generation below.What kind of generation... analog or digital generation? Naturally, there is only one "master", but a digital copy of the master, if made properly, is called a "clone", which is identical to the master (or 99.9% identical if it is properly converted from another format). (edit... re: Sydney 85) Master (VHS-C) -- SVHS (0) -- VHS (0) -- DVD-R (x) On your website you have concert videos labelled "audience video master" to DVD but in most cases we do not know the owner of the master.For these listings, either I know the filmer or I know someone who knows the filmer, so the lineage stands. For example, my copy of Uniondale 77 came from someone who got a DVD copy of the 8mm master done on a standalone burner, and my copy is a copy of that DVD... the first digital generation, hence the "1": 8mm video master } DVD-R (1) Unless you got your copy directly from the tape owner it is not from the master, it's from a copy.That is definitely not true. Something can go through hundreds of digital copies and still be identical to the first copy of the master. That's the whole point of taking down lineage... to avoid using simplistic terms like "first gen" and "master" and instead use direct language to determine exactly where the recording has been, and in the case of a master clone, ensuring the quality has stayed the same. |
| YourValentine 10.09.2008 15:17 |
Bob, first of all I did not say you lie. Secondly, I am not speaking about DVD-to-DVD copies but I am talking about the tape that was digitalized. For example the Uniondale 1977 tape that was recorded on a standalone DVD recorder (simple menu and the blue screen when the tape has weak spots) was most likely not recorded from the 8mm film but from a copy of the 8mm film. If it had been a professional 8mm film-to-DVD transfer there would not have been the blue screen from a home standalone player or the picture drop outs on the other version I heard about. Most likely, there would not be the logo in the lower right corner, either. Another example: the Wardour DVD from Knebworth "Thank You All". All Knebworth tapes come from the same source but from various copies of that source and Thank You all is from a copy. It's very easy to see when you have spent a lot of time staring on the capture of a VHS tape. If you track down the original tape, please send me an email. As to the Sydney master - I am sure that I am right but I'll ask the owner next time I catch him online and I'll report back. If there is a clone of the master it must have been encoded and shared by the tape owner himself. One thing is sure: DVDs which are circulating as master copies are definitely NOT from the master and that is something I know for 100%. I never said you fabricate a lineage but it must be possible to discuss stuff from your website with you or not? Even if Leo trusts you more than Jesus:) |
| The Real Wizard 10.09.2008 16:04 |
YourValentine wrote: For example the Uniondale 1977 tape that was recorded on a standalone DVD recorder (simple menu and the blue screen when the tape has weak spots) was most likely not recorded from the 8mm film but from a copy of the 8mm film.Correct... that particular copy went through a VHS transfer before DVD. DVDs which are circulating as master copies are definitely NOT from the master and that is something I know for 100%.Care to give any examples? Again, full lineage is always an asset. I never said you fabricate a lineage but it must be possible to discuss stuff from your website with you or not? Even if Leo trusts you more than Jesus:)Ha, of course it is.. :) All one can go by is what they've heard... that said, being open to correction is key. |
| YourValentine 11.09.2008 03:38 |
"Care to give any examples? Again, full lineage is always an asset." that was about Sydney 85 The lineage would be: Original tape -- SVHS copy (done by the owner)-- (VHS copy)x -- DVD Only if the owner encoded his original SVHS tape to DVD you have a master copy which never happened as far as I know or at least he never traded such a copy. He only traded a SVHS copy but the circulating DVD comes from the 1st VHS copy. Another example: The 1980 St Paul tape. It was filmed on Super 8 and about 25 years later the owner of the film encoded it to DVD himself. He had many other 8mm films and he recorded them all on VHS and from VHS to DVD because he was afraid he would lose them when the films started to dissolve. The St Paul DVD he sold on ebay had two other concerts - one Who and one Kinks concert if I remember correctly. I know it for a fact that the lineage was 8mm film --- VHS tape --- DVD because I bought the DVD from the owner on ebay and it had the two other films, he told me about saving all his old recordings. He sold other 8mm concert films and there were always at least 3 concerts on each DVD. I made a Queen-only DVD with a track menu but that is not the only copy circulating, other collectors bought from him, too. Another example is Roger in Astoria 1999. The taper swapped a SVHS copy asking it to be untraded but it leaked and so we have copies of copies encoded to VCD and later to DVD. There is no master on the "market" because the owner was mad as hell about the leak and never traded another copy. Unfortunately, we cannot trace back all videos to the original owner and some people label their stuff "master" as soon as they manage to get a copy in colour and therefore the confusion is high. I sent Pittrek a copy of the Wardour Newcastle 86 DVD (colour) for re-synching and when he is finished we will share it but it's not a master, it's a VHS copy of a VHS tape encoded to DVD and we simply do not know the tape generation, it's just the best version available to my knowledge. |
| The Real Wizard 11.09.2008 12:20 |
YourValentine wrote: that was about Sydney 85 The lineage would be: Original tape -- SVHS copy (done by the owner)-- (VHS copy)x -- DVDGreat... thanks for clearing that up. All this talk about it being from the "master" kind of became like the telephone game. some people label their stuff "master" as soon as they manage to get a copy in colour and therefore the confusion is high.Exactly... the mentality: label it as the master copy and it'll increase the trade value... even though the footage is still obviously grainy. Another example: The 1980 St Paul tape. It was filmed on Super 8 and about 25 years later the owner of the film encoded it to DVD himself. He had many other 8mm films and he recorded them all on VHS and from VHS to DVD because he was afraid he would lose them when the films started to dissolve. The St Paul DVD he sold on ebay had two other concerts - one Who and one Kinks concert if I remember correctly. I know it for a fact that the lineage was 8mm film --- VHS tape --- DVDRight... I knew about that, but didn't get the lineage... so thanks for that. What's the date of the Who concert? |
| pittrek 11.09.2008 12:22 |
This thread starts to be finally interesting ! Thanks SirGH and YourValentine ! |
| deltazulu 11.09.2008 21:16 |
geez... and i was just thinking my nice little discussion on the best versions of the early shows had become rather boring...
pittrek wrote: This thread starts to be finally interesting ! Thanks SirGH and YourValentine ! |
| YourValentine 12.09.2008 02:56 |
All films on the DVD are from the St. Paul's Civic Center: The Who : 30-04-1980 ca 14 min The Kinks: 13-09-1908 ca 12 min The Kinks: 16-09-1980 ca 12 min all in colour and with the original sound. Luckily, the Queen film is the longest :-) |
| The Real Wizard 12.09.2008 03:01 |
YourValentine wrote: Luckily, the Queen film is the longest :-)Indeed.. :) Although I wouldn't mind seeing the Who footage too! Lester ?? |
| YourValentine 12.09.2008 06:54 |
That should not be a problem, Bob. I can torrent the DVD or send you a copy. |
| The Real Wizard 24.09.2008 13:29 |
YourValentine wrote: That should not be a problem, Bob. I can torrent the DVD or send you a copy.It seems I missed this one ! A torrent would be great. Where will you do it? |