QueenZone discussion #1111851

The first step, Bush said, is to expand domestic oil supply by allowing drilling in the outer continental shell. He asked Congress to lift a federal drilling moratorium on offshore drilling. He said he would then lift an executive order that also bans drilling. Bush also called on Congress to: Increase access to oil shale Permit oil exploration in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge Increase domestic refining capacity "With these four steps we will take pressure off gas prices over time by expanding the amount of American made oil and gasoline," Bush said. Bush said his plan would also create jobs. Because the initiatives will years to implement, he urged swift action by Congress.

YourValentine wrote: Typical Bush 19th century solution for a 21st century issue. Any high school student has a better grip of reality than Bush.

Once an exalted institutional model for higher education development in Western societies, the German university of today struggles to adapt to new challenges facing higher education for the new century, and appears at times entrapped within the myth of its former self (e.g. Ben-David, 1991). Rooted in the traditions of the medieval university, then in the weak absolutist state of the 18th century, and expanded with the promise of 19th century academic science, the German university with its ties to the state was the exemplar for the first wave of growth towards the modern university (Lenhardt, 2005). Source: link

Sir GH wrote: link Bush, paraphrased: "If we drill for oil around here, it will make your gas cheaper. I promise!" Very well done. Your thoughts?

Gym Bitch wrote: Increasing the supply of a commodity tends to decrease the price of a commodity ... even liberal economists understand that ...

Zebonka12 wrote: RAISE THE GODDAMN FUCKING PRICE OF OIL. Jesus H Christ. Fucking send it through the Goddamn roof. I want to see people walking to work, ha-ha.

YourValentine wrote:

Gym Bitch wrote: Increasing the supply of a commodity tends to decrease the price of a commodity ... even liberal economists understand that ...

In the 1970s the price went up when the OPEC limited the supply but now the price is high due to monopolistic structures and global speculation. China and India have flexed their economic muscles and have greatly increased demand for raw material (including oil). Steel scrap prices are at an all time high for example. ...it's totally irresponsible to waste away the oil reserves for fuelling cars and heating houses. That's not a matter of ethics, it's a matter of economic reason. Investing into alternative energy is necessary to maintain our standard of living, it's also a growing market. Mass use of alternative fuels is decades away ... drilling on a small bleak parcel in Alaska will will increase supply within a few years. If every house had solar panels ... that would not even dent the demand for energy. Nuclear power on the other hand ...

PieterMC wrote:

PieterMC wrote:

Donna13 wrote: It is widely known (I think) that if you slow down, you can increase your fuel efficiency. Yet everyone around where I live is still driving 10 mph over the speed limit. And, they are driving mostly SUV's it seems. I don't have an SUV, but they make up a pretty high percentage on our roads.

Bob The Shrek wrote: 'Americans invented the car, mostly out of the "necessity being the mother of invention" thing.' Karl Benz will be turning in his grave right now. Henry Ford started mass production.

Bob The Shrek wrote: The weak dollar should also attract extra tourism.

Holly2003 wrote:

Bob The Shrek wrote: The weak dollar should also attract extra tourism.

Unless people are put off by the probability of they or their family being groped at the airport by secuirty staff or being arrested for having the same name as someone on a no-fly list.

Bob The Shrek wrote:

Holly2003 wrote:

Bob The Shrek wrote: The weak dollar should also attract extra tourism.

Unless people are put off by the probability of they or their family being groped at the airport by secuirty staff or being arrested for having the same name as someone on a no-fly list.

Not me - I'll be landing at JFK in October for the start of my honeymoon - come to think of it, they can grope me when I fly to San Diego too - I could leave the wife behind and save myself a fortune ;-)

MasterHistoryGirl wrote: Oil and gasoline isn't going to get any cheaper...that's the bottom line. And it won't. To be fair, we in the US do whine about the high cost of gasoline, when they've been playing twice what we are paying now in Europe for a number of years now. We are just finally catching up to everyone else, so to a certain extent my fellow Americans need to sit down and shut up. There is really no way to bring the prices down. Giving us a gas tax holiday won't work. Drilling offshore won't work. Opening more refineries won't work. We are simply running out of oil for our demand; the supply of oil isn't infinite. There are a few ways to make Americans happy by decreasing the amount of money we spend on gas: 1) Spend some cash now to build up, improve and expand our public transit system (which currently ranges from totally sucks to non-existent). That will help the environment, save people from buying cars, and be generally cheaper. 2) Require higher miles per gallon on ALL vehicles purchased in the US. Of course this will piss all of my fellow Michiganders off, but tough shit. They should have seen this coming in the 70's during the last fuel crisis. Europe manages to have cars that get 40+ MPG. 3) Americans could also get up off their butts and walk/bike to places. That would also require more money to get decent and safe walking/biking paths in a lot of areas. But that would help with the amount people spend for gas AND decrease the size of Americans ever-expanding waist lines. 4) Finally admit that oil is a LIMITED resource, and it doesn't matter who controls it. We are NEVER going to see cheap gasoline again. We figured that out with ethanol; gas price goes down, but food price goes up since all the corn goes into the gas tank.

MasterHistoryGirl wrote: 2) Require higher miles per gallon on ALL vehicles purchased in the US.

MasterHistoryGirl wrote: 3) Americans could also get up off their butts and walk/bike to places. That would also require more money to get decent and safe walking/biking paths in a lot of areas. But that would help with the amount people spend for gas AND decrease the size of Americans ever-expanding waist lines.

YourValentine wrote:

Gym Bitch wrote: Increasing the supply of a commodity tends to decrease the price of a commodity ... even liberal economists understand that ...

But that is not true for oil,unfortunately. There is no market in the old sense, the oil price is not regulated by supply and demand. In Rotterdam the tanks are overflowing but the price is at an all-time high. In the 1970s the price went up when the OPEC limited the supply but now the price is high due to monopolistic structures and global speculation. If the US dollar were not at an all-time low the world-wide crisis would be even worse. Oil will be needed by the chemical industry for a long time, it's the raw material for many products and cannot be replaced that easily. However, it can be replaced as the main source of energy and it's totally irresponsible to waste away the oil reserves for fuelling cars and heating houses. That's not a matter of ethics, it's a matter of economic reason. Investing into alternative energy is necessary to maintain our standard of living, it's also a growing market. To give the oil companies nore rights to drill when they already do not use the licenses they already have is only serving the oil companies and not serving the people or the consumers. Why would the oil companies sell their products any cheaper when thy have even more power and more resources?

Jacob Britt wrote:

I know my truck, gets probably 8 mpg or less.
I drive a Citroen C3 diesel - around town I average 55mpg and on a long run around 72-75mpg!

Donna13 wrote: I think, from what I've seen, Americans just don't care enough yet. It is widely known (I think) that if you slow down, you can increase your fuel efficiency. Yet everyone around where I live is still driving 10 mph over the speed limit. And, they are driving mostly SUV's it seems. I don't have an SUV, but they make up a pretty high percentage on our roads.

Music Man wrote:

Donna13 wrote: I think, from what I've seen, Americans just don't care enough yet. It is widely known (I think) that if you slow down, you can increase your fuel efficiency. Yet everyone around where I live is still driving 10 mph over the speed limit. And, they are driving mostly SUV's it seems. I don't have an SUV, but they make up a pretty high percentage on our roads.

Slowing down will not increase your fuel efficiency, which is rather a factor of acceleration. That's why you get better gas mileage on the highway, rather than in the city. Fuel economy is more correlated to the tachometer than the speedometer. If you want to conserve gas, shift gears as soon as possible - try to keep that RPM gauge low. Otherwise, accelerate slowly, try to remain in motion, and keep your speed steady. Oh, and not owning an SUV surely helps. I can definitely see the utility of owning an SUV - although I am sure that many SUV owners don't capitalize on it. However, a Honda Civic isn't exactly the best people (or cargo) carrier, you know? Anyway, gas prices are not too high. If they were, the market would develop an alternative to gas. It's really that simple (no joke) - we don't need government subsidies or conscientious consumers. All we need is a free market.

wrote:

Donna13 wrote: Anyway, gas prices are not too high. If they were, the market would develop an alternative to gas. It's really that simple (no joke) - we don't need government subsidies or conscientious consumers. All we need is a free market.

Petrol prices are too high. Unless you have shares in the oil companies, it's hard to see how you can justify your argument. People in the UK are being driven into "fuel poverty" by high petrol, gas and electricity costs. What in the world makes you think this is a good thing or somehow "natural"? Do people have a choice how much they heat their home in winter to stop them feezing to death? It's not simply a matter of people "choosing" to drive or not.

Jacob Britt wrote:

MasterHistoryGirl wrote: 2) Require higher miles per gallon on ALL vehicles purchased in the US.

We have cars like that around and you know it. But there's a majority of people who drive pickup trucks and bigger trucks in the USA for their work which cannot be done with a car. Snowplowing, construction, etc. I know my truck, gets probably 8 mpg or less. Trucks are meant for hard working, not driving around on a highway. It takes a lot more power to run a truck, and they do a lot more work than a car.

MasterHistoryGirl wrote: 3) Americans could also get up off their butts and walk/bike to places. That would also require more money to get decent and safe walking/biking paths in a lot of areas. But that would help with the amount people spend for gas AND decrease the size of Americans ever-expanding waist lines.

We could. But it depends on where in the United States. Maybe in NYC, Boston, Houston, Detroit, San Fransisco, and San Diego. But the majority of the USA is more rural. I'm not walking 10 miles to the nearest Walmart! As for my waist line though, it keeps going down and down. You act as if everyone in America is fat. Traitor! We do have sidewalks though, in downtown areas because the distance is so far from one town to the next (there's a section of rural area between each town), that it'd cost so much to put in a sidewalk. Asphalt is an oil product. Prices of that have skyrocketed. Concrete is even more expensive.

wrote: Oil prices are not excessive because consumers are still paying them. When the price increases to a level where consumers cannot or will not afford to pay for them, then the most efficient alternative will be created. The fact that this alternative has yet to be discovered and/or put into widespread use is proof that oil prices are not yet excessive.

Holly2003 wrote: Wow, you just ignored everything I said. Good job.

wrote: Oil prices are not excessive because consumers are still paying them. When the price increases to a level where consumers cannot or will not afford to pay for them, then the most efficient alternative will be created. The fact that this alternative has yet to be discovered and/or put into widespread use is proof that oil prices are not yet excessive.

YourValentine wrote: There really is no oil market where consumers have a choice between suppliers and choose the product they like best. The consumer is at the mercy of oil companies who dictate the price.