Queenrockyou 08.04.2008 09:21 |
Hi everyone ! Hope everyone has secured its seats by now. I had some questions, I am (normally, still waiting for Queenonline to clear it up) going to Antwerpen and Paris, and that drew a question in my mind, just to know : how can we record the audio of a show, or more exactly, where should we be placed to record it ? One good question for everyone wanting to try and record something. Except the hardware to use, one question should be where to stand. Is the best place (except behind the sounding board!) just in front of the stage, or is it better to be on seated places ? Near the soundboard or near the speakers ? For video, the best is a seated place with a good zoom, at least that's what I think. But is it the same for audio ? How can we record a show with an external mike without being caught (the long-time tapers probably know one trick or two !) ? seated or standing ? Moreover, I don't know how the seats are set up in Antwerpen and Paris halls for example, but there is probably some of a general rule of what places to choose and what places to avoid. Is anyone willing to give some advice ? Has anyone already decided to record a show, and which one are you going to record ? Thanks a lot, Regards, Olivier, France. |
Jeroen 08.04.2008 09:43 |
Audio recordings are best when you are positioned right in FRONT of the mixing desk, in the middle. If you sit you get either an unbalanced recording (if you have a seat on one of the long sides) or too much space (or even echo) if you sit on the far side. For the equipement, you better look up some of the specialist tapers-forums elsewhere. But be carefull!! Tapers are very unfriendly to new people that don't know anything. Getting caught? (EDITED because Miklos is right :-) See below Go to tapers-forums for this!! |
tilomagnet 08.04.2008 09:46 |
The "sweet spot" is different for each venue of course. In general if you are far back you'll get much more crowd noise on the recording and the music sounds distant. The closer to the stage you are the better. You can't go wrong with FOB (=front of board) taping. Stay away from noisy people and from security.
How can we record a show with an external mike without being caught (the long-time tapers probably know one trick or two !) ?Mics in hat or (baseball) cap. Only make the attempt to tape if you are serious about it. So leave the mp3 player and the 5 Euro mic at home and enjoy the show, if that's all you have. If you want to get a nice recording expect to spend at least ~ Euro 150 to get a decent rig. |
tilomagnet 08.04.2008 09:51 |
Jeroen wrote: For the equipement, you better look up some of the specialist tapers-forums elsewhere. But be carefull!! Tapers are very unfriendly to new people that don't know anything.Ahh, nOOb bashing ;-) Seriously, where did you get this? Check out taperssection.com Tapers ARE friendly and don't let the fact scare you off that most people on that site have > $ 4000 investet in taping gear. You can make great recordings with way cheaper rigs. |
Double-U 08.04.2008 10:41 |
I´ll try to tape the shows in Berlin and Hannover but still looking for the right stuff to do so and the possebillity to try it on another concert before giong to the Queen-shows to make everthing as good as possible. Never again I´ll try to film the event. It´s giong very hard on the nerves feeling like a criminal always in danger to get catched. That´s not a good idea on a concert of your favorite band. regards W. |
Jeroen 08.04.2008 10:50 |
AT U853c > 3wire BB > Church Audio ST-9100 preamp v2.0 > R09 24bit 48kHz, line in ^This gear was responsible for some of the most stunning audience-recordings I've ever heard. Just a suggestion :-) |
Mkls 08.04.2008 10:55 |
enjoy the show - no taping my advice :) |
Daniel vZ 08.04.2008 11:03 |
link I don't know if this one is good. |
Jeroen 08.04.2008 11:05 |
Miklos wrote: chaps - i believe we should be more careful with going into details about bootlegging... just an idea.Might be wise, indeed. I edited some things out. Go to the tapersforums for this, people! |
sexmachine 08.04.2008 12:26 |
i would recommend to go as near to the boxes as possible. the louder the music the less audible are the people around you. just make sure you set the level of your recording equipment low. go next to the line arrays (the banana style boxes that are hanging from the ceiling), go to one side because most of the show is mixed in mono anyway. i would not recommend to put the mic on your hat because you will hear every move you make (with your head). clip it to your jacket. i made good experiences with a low-cut filter switched between mic and recorder. otherwise you might get a compression effect on your recording everytime when roger hits the bass-drum. bootleg equipment is available e.g.at : link or link |
david (galashiels) 08.04.2008 13:16 |
can i take in a digital stills camera. |
onevsion 08.04.2008 13:29 |
Double-U wrote: Never again I´ll try to film the event. It´s giong very hard on the nerves feeling like a criminal always in danger to get catched.seperates the men from the boys ;-) |
onevsion 08.04.2008 13:39 |
Miklos wrote: enjoy the show - no taping my advice :)Very good advice. I hate tapers. :-) |
gnomo 08.04.2008 13:41 |
galashiels wrote: can i take in a digital stills camera.Cameras usually are forbidden at all venues. Of course, for those who want to break the rule, it's a matter of resourcefulness and ability. |
onevsion 08.04.2008 13:43 |
gnomo wrote:Simple digital photocams (3,2 megapixel, 3x zoom) are allowed at most venues.galashiels wrote: can i take in a digital stills camera.Cameras usually are forbidden at all venues. Of course, for those who want to break the rule, it's a matter of resourcefulness and ability. |
Jjeroen 08.04.2008 13:44 |
gnomo wrote:Tssyah, first they 'forbid' it and after the tour they request fans to send in their pictures!galashiels wrote: can i take in a digital stills camera.Cameras usually are forbidden at all venues. Of course, for those who want to break the rule, it's a matter of resourcefulness and ability. (As they did with the '05 tour - some pics ended up in the ROTC artwork, the other ones -so they promised- would be used for something nice. But we never heard anything about it after that.) |
gnomo 08.04.2008 13:53 |
Jjeroen wrote:Well, if my understanding is correct, it's the venues, not the band, that forbid cameras - see what happens at WWRY...gnomo wrote:Tssyah, first they 'forbid' it and after the tour they request fans to send in their pictures!galashiels wrote: can i take in a digital stills camera.Cameras usually are forbidden at all venues. Of course, for those who want to break the rule, it's a matter of resourcefulness and ability. |
Mr. Scully 08.04.2008 15:17 |
Also don't make the mistake that I did many times - setting the level of recording to "auto". Then it doesn't capture the sound of drums properly. The level of volume must be set manually (and properly, to avoid distortion). The mixing desk is indeed the best place but I'd say you can't go wrong with being in the very front, near the speakers. Just don't be in the first row, the security at the QPR gigs is tight. |
pittrek 08.04.2008 15:22 |
BTW what is the security in O2 Arena Praha and Wien Stadthalle ? :-) |
Adam Baboolal 08.04.2008 15:45 |
Daniel vZ, I have a Zoom H4 and I love it. It's a great tool. I liked the quality so much, I bought another one! I recently used it (legally) to record a theatre show I was videoing for them. I have samples if needed. It recently got an update to add much needed features for recording, e.g. compression/limiter, low-cut filter, support for SDHC cards (I have two 8GB cards now!), battery level meter, etc. The only possible blemish may be something people find about the recorder and batteries. Apparently, there's a noise when using batteries on recordings, rather than using it from the mains. Haven't really noticed anything yet. Anyway, a good choice as it can record up to 24-bit 96kHz, which is what I always use. However, the only problem will be the placement cause it's an all in one unit. I'd suggest getting a couple of tie-clip mics and plug them into the units and feed them through button holes in a jacket. That would mean the unit could stay on the inside of your jacket. Adam. |
TheGame 08.04.2008 15:51 |
This topic is quite valid on this forum. There are tapers with experience from the 2005 tour in here. Many people also want to tape the concert they attend and i think the question is fair on this board. One thing is for sure. If you DO wanna tape, then go stealth! You would also need a batterybox, but i dont think a pre-amp would be useful for this kind of loud show. Chris church make some nice mics apparently, so perhaps you should concider those. They cost US 150 incl. batterybox+shipping. When it comes to recorder, well, i have no idea whats the best out there ( however, go digital and not md if you already dont own a hi-md). |
Cwazy little thing 08.04.2008 19:12 |
I have nothing to add about how to record, but I just thought Id agree with the above poster - given we all happily share the end product of these recordings with the band etc turning a blind eye to free distribution, I cant see the problem discussing how a recording is made. Im looking forwards to getting a good boot from the Liverpool show already, so I hope someone records! Or better still - official DVD!!!! (unlikely I know!) |
Adam Baboolal 08.04.2008 23:17 |
I wish I could use my HD camera to film the Glasgow show, but like others say, 1, you could get caught and 2, you'll be busy worrying rather than enjoying the show. Adam. |
inu-liger 09.04.2008 02:08 |
I've used the following equipment to record The Police, Roger Waters (1st Row!), Spice Girls and Van Halen last year (as well as having a friend in Japan record an anime concert...), with one minor exception at the RW show: Sound Professionals SP-BMC-2 mini binaural microphones... link ...fitted within an optional croakie mount link Microphone Madness MM-CBM-Mini Miniature Classic Battery / Filter module link and an Edirol R-09, SD card based recorder link At the Roger Waters show, I used a Sony MZ-NH600 Hi-MD MiniDisc recorder, as I was only renting the Edirol at the time before I decided to purchase it recently. By the way, I notice Roland now offers a new Edirol R-09HR model that can also record in 88.1 or 96kHz (in addition to 16- or 24-bit)! link I will try and get one sometime by year's end before Queen and Paul Rodgers return to Canada in 2009 (I assume) Depending how many dates they announce for 2009, I'll be trying to attend and record as many shows in Canada as financially possible. |
Double-U 09.04.2008 04:01 |
Hey Inu-liger, wich shows of the Police you recorded? regards W. |
PieterMC 09.04.2008 08:15 |
inu-liger wrote: Spice GirlsI wouldn't have admitted that. |
onevsion 09.04.2008 08:30 |
Double-U wrote: Hey Inu-liger, wich shows of the Police you recorded? regards W.Police fan? Attented one of the Amsterdam gigs. Mail me at mrducksoup@hotmail.com for more info. |
Hitman 09.04.2008 09:41 |
PieterMC wrote:ahahah hilarious!inu-liger wrote: Spice GirlsI wouldn't have admitted that. :P |
Penetration_Guru 09.04.2008 12:45 |
Ducksoup wrote:Spice Girls fan. Got lost on the way to Dunkin' Donuts one night.Double-U wrote: Hey Inu-liger, wich shows of the Police you recorded? regards W.Police fan? |
Madman 09.04.2008 16:09 |
Adam Baboolal wrote: Daniel vZ, I have a Zoom H4 and I love it. It's a great tool. I liked the quality so much, I bought another one! I recently used it (legally) to record a theatre show I was videoing for them. I have samples if needed. It recently got an update to add much needed features for recording, e.g. compression/limiter, low-cut filter, support for SDHC cards (I have two 8GB cards now!), battery level meter, etc. The only possible blemish may be something people find about the recorder and batteries. Apparently, there's a noise when using batteries on recordings, rather than using it from the mains. Haven't really noticed anything yet. Adam.Adam, read this link and problem will be solved :) Adam Baboolal wrote: It recently got an update to add much needed features for recording, e.g. compression/limiter, low-cut filter (...)I don't think so it will be good choice - seriously. I personally never use this thinks. |
david (galashiels) 09.04.2008 17:27 |
adam.i am going to glasgow with my kids,i just want to take some pics from block m,have you been there ,is it very far from the stage. |
inu-liger 09.04.2008 20:31 |
PieterMC wrote:How about admitting the fact that the aforementioned anime concert was the "Pikachu the Live Concert" 10th anniversary event on August 7th, I think it was, last year :Pinu-liger wrote: Spice GirlsI wouldn't have admitted that. Quite some surprises at that show as far as the setlist went :P But you guys wouldn't care :P :P :P |
inu-liger 09.04.2008 20:31 |
Double-U wrote: Hey Inu-liger, wich shows of the Police you recorded? regards W.Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Was the 3rd or 4th show, right after the starting of the tour in Vancouver. |
TheGame 10.04.2008 01:49 |
Seems hard to stick to topic for some people. Anyway, thought i should mention perhaps useful tip. If you decide to record, then be sure to not move around,jump or any sudden moves. This will affect the recording. Also, be sure to test the settings before the concert. Turn up the volume on your stereo at home and learn how the different adjustments affects the quality. |
Queenrockyou 10.04.2008 02:04 |
Yep, great advice ! Regards, Olivier, France. |
Adam Baboolal 10.04.2008 07:22 |
M-block looks fairly far - if I'm looking at the right hall chart. Adam. |
inu-liger 11.04.2008 19:44 |
TheGame wrote: Anyway, thought i should mention perhaps useful tip. If you decide to record, then be sure to not move around,jump or any sudden moves. This will affect the recording. Also, be sure to test the settings before the concert. Turn up the volume on your stereo at home and learn how the different adjustments affects the quality.What he said. Although, if you have a chance to go to another concert before Q+PR, or if Q+PR decide to take on a support act this time around, try recording those and change the settings during the concert to find a 'comfort level' with the display (assuming your recorder has one like the Edirol R-09) where it will come close to but not actually clip beyond 0dB. I find, with the Edirol R-09, it's best to have the Line-In input level set between 13-16 at best. Hi-MD MiniDiscs are a bit trickier, but I guessed right when I recorded Roger Waters. It kinda depends too how loud the concert is and what type of venue it is (arena, stadium, etc.). I believe I used 13 at The Police (after figuring out the level while recording one of the two support acts, "Fiction Plane", which btw I might still have if anyone would be interested :P ), and 15-16 for Van Halen and Spice Girls. I am not sure what my friend had it for the anime concert in Japan, but I think I may have had it preset for him. (Though his turned out to be the quietest of all the 2007 recordings, so he may have adjusted it after all) The only case I noticed clip peaks on the recording was with Spice Girls despite having it set around 15, 16, and me sitting pretty much at the far end facing the stage. It didn't sound distorted thankfully despite the peaks, but all my other recordings were more or less really close to the stage (The Police was the 2nd furthest, and Roger Waters was the closest, having been in 1st row as I mentioned). Interesting that you guys should suggest trying to get seats as close to the F.O.B. (Front of the Board) mixing desk. Assuming I'll be attending more than 2 Q+PR concerts next year, I will try looking into getting floor seats close to the FOB for a few, and tix for as close to the actual stage for the others, as I will be recording them. This would give me a better idea of how different positions will make a difference in sound and quality. |
tilomagnet 13.04.2008 11:45 |
<b><FONT SIZE=4>inu-liger</b> wrote: Interesting that you guys should suggest trying to get seats as close to the F.O.B. (Front of the Board) mixing desk. Assuming I'll be attending more than 2 Q+PR concerts next year, I will try looking into getting floor seats close to the FOB for a few, and tix for as close to the actual stage for the others, as I will be recording them. This would give me a better idea of how different positions will make a difference in sound and quality.Mixing desk = soundboard "FOB" means taping location between the stage and the mixing desk / soundboard. |
inu-liger 14.04.2008 00:15 |
tilomagnet wrote:Bah. I stand corrected.<b><FONT SIZE=4>inu-liger</b> wrote: Interesting that you guys should suggest trying to get seats as close to the F.O.B. (Front of the Board) mixing desk. Assuming I'll be attending more than 2 Q+PR concerts next year, I will try looking into getting floor seats close to the FOB for a few, and tix for as close to the actual stage for the others, as I will be recording them. This would give me a better idea of how different positions will make a difference in sound and quality.Mixing desk = soundboard "FOB" means taping location between the stage and the mixing desk / soundboard. (Was REALLY tired all week, including when I wrote this :P ) |
TheGame 16.04.2008 06:05 |
Does anyone have any knowledge about this 4.7k mod on the mics? Doesnt this prevent the need of a batterybox and perhaps a pre-amp would be better if buying mics with the 4.7k mod? |
write your letters in the sand 19.04.2008 14:32 |
PieterMC wrote:Ouch!inu-liger wrote: Spice GirlsI wouldn't have admitted that. |
david (galashiels) 19.04.2008 19:56 |
i only want a few pics for posterity,just so my kids can say.been there done that.and it was grand. |