| Vali 10.03.2008 14:49 |
Don´t know if this (or something similar) has been discussed before, but I was just driving home and listening to "News Of The World" and the same old question came to me when "Spread Your Wings" started: Why do I always have to turn the volume up with this song? Why does it sound lower than the rest of the album? more ore less happens the same with "We Are The Champions", but not at the same level. Was this song mixed in a different way than the rest of the songs on this album? Or is it only me ? :P And a similar thought with the Innuendo album: why does John´s bass sound so weak ? If the album was remastered and the bass gained power, it would deserve a 12 over 10 points (to me, 10 points already reached). On Innuendo (the song) the bass goes up and down, and in other songs it can hardly be heard. Once again, maybe it´s only me ... but this painful thought has tormented my life all over the years ;) many thanks in advance for your wise explanations |
| FriedChicken 10.03.2008 14:57 |
I also don't like it that Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy is much lower in volume than the rest. |
| Vali 10.03.2008 15:02 |
FriedChicken<br><font size=1>The Almighty</font> wrote: I also don't like it that Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy is much lower in volume than the rest.Yes ! I didn´t remember this example when writing the post, but it´s the same case as "Spread Your Wings" |
| pittrek 10.03.2008 15:22 |
why does John´s bass sound so weak ? Because it wasn't John's bass ? |
| Vali 10.03.2008 15:27 |
pittrek wrote: why does John´s bass sound so weak ? Because it wasn't John's bass ?hey man ... I need more info, much more info, on this. What do you mean? |
| Micrówave 10.03.2008 15:30 |
Thats why he quit. |
| Vali 10.03.2008 15:36 |
Micrówave wrote: Thats why he quit.And who played bass in the Made In Heaven, post-Innuendo sessions, tracks? Now comes the time when I found out I´ve been living in a lie since 1991. |
| pittrek 10.03.2008 15:36 |
Vali wrote:There are many "urban legends" about making of Innuendo.pittrek wrote: why does John´s bass sound so weak ? Because it wasn't John's bass ?hey man ... I need more info, much more info, on this. What do you mean? One of them is that John is not playing on the album, and Dave Richards played instead of him (most of the bass should be also done by computers). It's of course an "urban legend", nobody will honestly tell you if it's the truth |
| Vali 10.03.2008 15:47 |
pittrek wrote:mmmmm ... never heard about this"urban legend" ... but could be true, as the bass style doesn´t fit much with John´s.Vali wrote:There are many "urban legends" about making of Innuendo. One of them is that John is not playing on the album, and Dave Richards played instead of him (most of the bass should be also done by computers). It's of course an "urban legend", nobody will honestly tell you if it's the truthpittrek wrote: why does John´s bass sound so weak ? Because it wasn't John's bass ?hey man ... I need more info, much more info, on this. What do you mean? Yeah, it´s interesting to learn about this. It´s what has always concerned me about the Innuendo album, its bass, its poor bass ... And what about Spread Your Wings and Good Old Fashioned? what´s the point with their volume? |
| Roger Meadows Tailor 10.03.2008 16:34 |
Apparently when John had written"Spread Your Wings"he was supposed to have been in a "reflective"mood.So the song was meant to a sort of quiet song.Yet when you look at the lyrics its about a guy wanting to "break free" from his life.Now where have we heard that before,eh?Seems like John had quite a few of these "reflective" moods. Now on the Innuendo album,and this is just my HO,i think John had already made his mind up that he was quitting,knowing as he did that Freddie was dying and thinking Queen was gonna be no more at that point.So he might not have given the production side of that album much thought. I'm not knocking John.Far from it.I happen to think he is the most wonderfully musically adept bassist i've ever had the pleasure of seeing live on stage.Thats why i wouldnt mind one last taste of the summer wine where he is concerned.Cmon John.Get back with the guys.:) |
| GiantSpider 10.03.2008 16:58 |
Well John wanted to carry Queen on post Freddie anyway, Roger said so in an interview at the time and the two of them made a concert appearance together, billed as Queen. |
| Poo, again 10.03.2008 17:30 |
John's bass ruins My Melancholy Blues. It's just way too loud. |
| Vali 10.03.2008 17:34 |
Roger Meadows Tailor wrote: Apparently when John had written"Spread Your Wings"he was supposed to have been in a "reflective"mood.So the song was meant to a sort of quiet song.Yet when you look at the lyrics its about a guy wanting to "break free" from his life.Now where have we heard that before,eh?Seems like John had quite a few of these "reflective" moods. Now on the Innuendo album,and this is just my HO,i think John had already made his mind up that he was quitting,knowing as he did that Freddie was dying and thinking Queen was gonna be no more at that point.So he might not have given the production side of that album much thought.Ok thanks, but my concern on Spread Your Wings goes into the technical side direction, not the lyrics or message, and the way it was recorded / mastered. I´d like to know why the whole album has one type of sound, and this song another different one. And your oppinion about his work on Innuendo ... I respect what you say, but If John felt that way, he wouldn ´t have agreed to go on with MIH, play that show with Roger, etc etc |
| Adam Baboolal 10.03.2008 17:37 |
Why is the bass on Innuendo weak? Could be because of Dave Richards. But, I like to think it has something to do with the start of their digital album recordings. It's not really clear enough, but I remember warming up both Miracle and Innuendo with a tape/tube plugin. The result was an interesting one. Suddenly the bass started to sound nicer and the overall songs became much warmer. It was a nice experiment and the only way I listened to those albums after that. Adam. |
| Bobby_brown 10.03.2008 19:00 |
Adam Baboolal wrote: Why is the bass on Innuendo weak? Could be because of Dave Richards. But, I like to think it has something to do with the start of their digital album recordings. It's not really clear enough, but I remember warming up both Miracle and Innuendo with a tape/tube plugin. The result was an interesting one. Suddenly the bass started to sound nicer and the overall songs became much warmer. It was a nice experiment and the only way I listened to those albums after that. Adam.You make some sense here, as i recall a few years ago Brian was selling the equipement he has bought to record "The Miracle" and "Innuendo". And they sound very similar indeed (very digital!). It doesn´t make sense for John to quit the band when they were supporting Freddie and when it was obvious that the band were in Montrewx to record "The Made in Heaven" sessions in 1991 when Freddie was still alive. And besides, John´s style is all over the place shining like never before. The intro to "TSMGO", and the incredible basslines on "IGSM". And it doesn´t sound like synths to me because he does some little slides (and this is very characteristic of John´s style). Now, "Spread You Wings" is in fact low as it is "We are the champions". But i thing that the album sounds very weak (soundwise), the diference is that these two songs start with piano only, making it more obvious. Maybe it was meant to be? Of course i´m only guessing, but it´s obvious that by this time they were fed up with having to spend so much time in studio to make it perfect. Take care |
| Roger Meadows Tailor 10.03.2008 20:03 |
Vali wrote:ValiRoger Meadows Tailor wrote: Apparently when John had written"Spread Your Wings"he was supposed to have been in a "reflective"mood.So the song was meant to a sort of quiet song.Yet when you look at the lyrics its about a guy wanting to "break free" from his life.Now where have we heard that before,eh?Seems like John had quite a few of these "reflective" moods. Now on the Innuendo album,and this is just my HO,i think John had already made his mind up that he was quitting,knowing as he did that Freddie was dying and thinking Queen was gonna be no more at that point.So he might not have given the production side of that album much thought.Ok thanks, but my concern on Spread Your Wings goes into the technical side direction, not the lyrics or message, and the way it was recorded / mastered. I´d like to know why the whole album has one type of sound, and this song another different one. And your oppinion about his work on Innuendo ... I respect what you say, but If John felt that way, he wouldn ´t have agreed to go on with MIH, play that show with Roger, etc etc I take your point.On MIH IMHO i think he may have did that as a favour for Brian and Roger.We'll never really know the real answer to that one. Another point.It was often said that if there was an argument within the band John very often sided with Freddie as though they were quite close friendship wise.That maybe another reason why John decided to pack it in when Freddie died. I respect your point. |
| Roger Meadows Tailor 10.03.2008 20:32 |
Also,sorry for boring you again,but John was also in the habit of maybe playing an octave higher than he needed to therefore making it harder for you to differentiate between what Brian,for example,was playing.This was a commonplace thing with Bass players in the 60's and 70's.It may well be that Roy Thomas Baker or Mack or whoever may well be kicking back the sound deliberately.Who knows.One things for sure.We'll never know. |
| liam 11.03.2008 01:15 |
Yeah, johns bass is very low in Innuendo, in my opinion its due to poor production. Queens bass had always been relativly easy to hear and when it wasnt it was due to poor production, ie. the entire Queen 2 album. They wouldnt have purposly made it inaudible. The hitman for instance, the bass is so thin and weak in that song, considering he is playing open E notes during the main riff, that song would've been twice as powerful if the bass was mixed properly, aswell as the show must go on. Its a shame becuase some great bass licks can barely be heard in the show must go on and im going slightly mad. |
| john bodega 11.03.2008 01:22 |
Vali wrote: And who played bass in the Made In Heaven, post-Innuendo sessions, tracks?Paul McCartney |
| banana-wig 18038 11.03.2008 06:17 |
Maybe of all the albums I hope they would 're-master' it would be Innuendo. I think the amazing songs are let-down by the levels etc..The whole album is like someone accidentally punched the 'mute' button on the sound-desk - LOUDER please! |
| john bodega 11.03.2008 06:57 |
Banana-Wig wrote: Maybe of all the albums I hope they would 're-master' it would be Innuendo. I think the amazing songs are let-down by the levels etc..The whole album is like someone accidentally punched the 'mute' button on the sound-desk - LOUDER please!Don't be ridiculous. You have the ability to turn your stereo up for this very reason. Hot mixing just makes things sound like shit. |
| goodco 11.03.2008 07:13 |
In regards to individual mixes, 'You're My Best Friend' is louder and fuller than the rest of ANATO on CDs. Relating to SYW being softer in regards to the rest of NOTW, it simply comes down to quality control (or lack there of) |
| banana-wig 18038 11.03.2008 08:06 |
Zebonka12 wrote:Yah I know but ipod's don't have such ability and thats 'where'I listen to music most. Innuendo is low volume in comparison to other Queen albums that's all..Banana-Wig wrote: Maybe of all the albums I hope they would 're-master' it would be Innuendo. I think the amazing songs are let-down by the levels etc..The whole album is like someone accidentally punched the 'mute' button on the sound-desk - LOUDER please!Don't be ridiculous. You have the ability to turn your stereo up for this very reason. Hot mixing just makes things sound like shit. |
| john bodega 11.03.2008 08:13 |
Ahhhh, I see now. Well, you could always try stuffing your earphones further into the ear.... works for me! PS. I have tinitus. |
| Raffy 11.03.2008 11:53 |
If you think that John's bass on Innuendo isn't quite loud then you've got to listen to the whole ...And justice for all album of Metallica. Here the bass is like it doesn't exist!!! |
| Daniel vZ 11.03.2008 14:34 |
Raffy wrote: If you think that John's bass on Innuendo isn't quite loud then you've got to listen to the whole ...And justice for all album of Metallica. Here the bass is like it doesn't exist!!!Just like Roger's kick (basedrum) on the Jazz album, really terrible, very weak. |
| brENsKi 11.03.2008 14:55 |
so far you're picking out rock tracks and ballads it's more or less fact that nearly all "traditional" rock sounds from 70 - 90 don't really do "bass" even the heavier bands like purple and sabbs - even zeppelin - in the main you don;t hear much bass...rock bands tend to up their lead guitar and keyboards in the mix |
| brENsKi 11.03.2008 14:58 |
goodco wrote: In regards to individual mixes, 'You're My Best Friend' is louder and fuller than the rest of ANATO on CDs. Relating to SYW being softer in regards to the rest of NOTW, it simply comes down to quality control (or lack there of)you don't think that's because it's a deacon song? he has two major inputs into his song bass and electric piano...so of course it's going to be more emphasised....also wasn't there a rumour it was to be the first single from ANATO?....if so, in the 70s/80s singles did tend to sound louder than lp tracks |
| liam 12.03.2008 08:52 |
"it's more or less fact that nearly all "traditional" rock sounds from 70 - 90 don't really do "bass"" What a stupid comment! The bass in the 70's was incritcate and ryhthmic, its a fantastic era for bass, the bass in zep songs is amazing for a start. God....wat a joke thing to say. |
| goodco 12.03.2008 12:20 |
<font color=green>Bren<font color=orange>ski wrote:Uhmmmmm.......who had CDs in the 70's????goodco wrote: In regards to individual mixes, 'You're My Best Friend' is louder and fuller than the rest of ANATO on CDs. Relating to SYW being softer in regards to the rest of NOTW, it simply comes down to quality control (or lack there of)you don't think that's because it's a deacon song? he has two major inputs into his song bass and electric piano...so of course it's going to be more emphasised....also wasn't there a rumour it was to be the first single from ANATO?....if so, in the 70s/80s singles did tend to sound louder than lp tracks Using the other comment, in that case, SYW would be louder, I guess. |
| ITSM 12.03.2008 19:40 |
Just to mention some good "bass-songs": -Misfire -A Kind of Magic -Cool Cat -The Millionaire Waltz -... and of course Another one bites the dust... |
| VfLDOTL 12.03.2008 20:37 |
Dragon Attack :P |
| Deacon Fan 13.03.2008 03:43 |
Bobby_brown wrote: Now, "Spread You Wings" is in fact low as it is "We are the champions". But i thing that the album sounds very weak (soundwise), the diference is that these two songs start with piano only, making it more obvious. Maybe it was meant to be? Of course i´m only guessing, but it´s obvious that by this time they were fed up with having to spend so much time in studio to make it perfect. Take careI think you came closest to explaining this. To me, this and other songs which seem too low at first actually end up being quite loud or at least up to the average level of other highs on the album. It might be intentional, to lure the listener into turning it up and then being blasted when it gets going. That would be my guess, before I ventured to say that the mixes were done poorly.. It wouldn't be a fault of the mastering in my opinion, because at that final stage one would think that the song is the way it was intended as far as an intro being lower than the rest of the song. I think if you listen to an album through in a quiet environment with headphones, you won't need to make level adjustments. Of course it's not always easy to do that, but that's life :) Looking at the waveform on the 2001 remaster, the song actually builds up twice.. once when the drums kick in on the word 'boss' and a little higher again for the first chorus... my guess is that this is just the way they wanted it.. kinda building up until it gets to the climactic ending solo, which then has a very long fade-out. The build-up is Sammy slowly developing his idea to spread his wings and do something better with his life, an idea which keeps gaining momentum until he finally breaks free and perhaps the end fading slowly is to represent Sammy getting further and further away from his previous life. LOL |
| Adam Baboolal 13.03.2008 08:38 |
What J mentions above about the building up of the song is a true technique. It's another device to stop people from getting bored and adds a nice build up as stated. When looking at it from that angle, it certainly seems intentional. I too, always thought it was a bit odd, but realised at some point that this must be why. Cause if it starts off higher, there's not much else for it to go after that volume-wise. Adam. |
| Roger's Beard 13.03.2008 11:35 |
I've never heard anything about John not even being on the Innuendo album. What utter rubbish. If he felt that way, would he even bother have appearing in the videos? As for the quality of the album, it is flat, but I recall they had recording/mixing problems with it being digital. |
| Sebastian 16.03.2008 09:39 |
As a matter of fact, there's much more human bass than human drums in both 'Miracle' and 'Innuendo' albums. So Roger would be a much bigger parasite according to that ;) |
| DavidRFuller 16.03.2008 11:40 |
John definitely was involved in Innuendo. He and Roger were more anxious to make the Made In Heaven album than Brian at first. |
| Mr Faron Hyte 16.03.2008 22:41 |
pootle1 wrote: I've never heard anything about John not even being on the Innuendo album. What utter rubbish. If he felt that way, would he even bother have appearing in the videos?Actually its widely known, but rarely discussed, that John Deacon was actually assassinated by Flemish separatists while shopping for broccoli rabe at a farmer's market in Cornwall in June of 1990. In subsequent Queen recordings and appearances, he was replaced by an early version of SoulBot5000 (probably SoulBot2700), at least until 1999. Since then, of course, they just use ProTools Bassomatic. |
| Danne 17.03.2008 11:02 |
Sebastian wrote: As a matter of fact, there's much more human bass than human drums in both 'Miracle' and 'Innuendo' albums. So Roger would be a much bigger parasite according to that ;)On the other hands there are more "human drums" on those albums than the analysis on your home page suggests. Most of the songs on those albums contains acoustic drums (albeit sometimes only in certain sections). Songs which contain acoustic where you have stated that they don't: "The Invisible Man" - at least in the middle-eight ("Never had a real good friend"...), and during the drum solo (obviously!) "Breakthru" - almost throughout the song, obvious from Roger's very characteristic hihat playing "I Can't Live With You" - yes, much of the drums are programmed, but there are sections when you can clearly hear more than acoustic bass drum and toms, some very obvious muted cymbals, for instance "Ride the Wild Wind" - see "Breakthru" |