Yankovic 24.02.2008 15:54 |
Is this dvd official? link |
Dubroc 24.02.2008 16:16 |
No, it isn't... |
Yankovic 24.02.2008 16:24 |
I bought it in a store in sweden for 23$. The quality is very good. |
John S Stuart 24.02.2008 16:42 |
Yes it is official. link Queen: Live In Japan Play.com : £13.99 Free Delivery RRP: £18.99 You save: £5.00 It has been out in the UK for a couple of years now. |
Major Tom 24.02.2008 17:07 |
Mine in in black and white... |
Ale Solan 24.02.2008 17:16 |
Quality of this sucks arse big time actually but it's the best so far available. |
Guild84BHM1 24.02.2008 19:59 |
This was released originally on VHS as Queen Final Live Japan some years ago. Seems the quality is the same as that tape as I own both. |
Wilki Amieva 24.02.2008 20:56 |
Nope, this it is NOT an officially licensed product. The only official DVD relase from that concert is: QUEEN WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS: FINAL LIVE IN JAPAN DVD R2 (Video: Color, 4:3, NTSC, MPEG-2; Audio: Stereo PCM) 2004.06.02 - Japan, WOWOW/JEC International Corp: POBE-3200 link |
Roger Meadows Tailor 25.02.2008 00:15 |
John S Stuart wrote: Yes it is official. link Queen: Live In Japan Play.com : £13.99 Free Delivery RRP: £18.99 You save: £5.00 It has been out in the UK for a couple of years now.Its in Amazon for £7 plus free delivery.Any good? |
onevsion 25.02.2008 04:43 |
Wilki Amieva wrote: Nope, this it is NOT an officially licensed product. The only official DVD relase from that concert is: QUEEN WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS: FINAL LIVE IN JAPAN DVD R2 (Video: Color, 4:3, NTSC, MPEG-2; Audio: Stereo PCM) 2004.06.02 - Japan, WOWOW/JEC International Corp: POBE-3200 linkCorrect! |
Mr Mercury 25.02.2008 05:59 |
Roger Meadows Tailor wrote:Ive got it. Lovely to hear Spike so high up in the mix. Also, its rather handy having those song titles on screen for the older generation who can quite remember what song they are listening to......John S Stuart wrote: Yes it is official. link Queen: Live In Japan Play.com : £13.99 Free Delivery RRP: £18.99 You save: £5.00 It has been out in the UK for a couple of years now.Its in Amazon for £7 plus free delivery.Any good? btw... Amazon only do free delivery for orders over £15.... |
QUEENROCKS_1991 25.02.2008 06:39 |
Yes it is then it No is not for god sake go ask brian may or the Fan club Jacki ask them they will know the answer rather than get Yes or No lol I have the offical one from Japan but i bet you say it aint and some say it is i dont care as long it works lol |
NickName 25.02.2008 08:07 |
Sorry... wrong forum |
John S Stuart 25.02.2008 09:12 |
I have this on four different formats. For the moment, I will forget about both the Official Laser Disc and VHS versions - because basically, they have been reduced to ornaments. The Japanese DVD has official stamped all over it. Queen: We Are The Champions Final Live In Japan Pobe 3200 Produced by JEC International. Manufactured by Victor Company of Japan. 1992 Queen Films Ltd (under exclusive license) Watanabe Music Publishing Co, Ltd, to JEC International Corp Japan. The UK DVD has official stamped on in tiny letters. 1992 Queen Films under exclusive License. Now, I agree the UK version looks and feels like a bootleg, but what makes it kosher is the licensing agreement. 'Ghost Of A Smile' is an 'Official CD' because 'Double Dutch' purchased the license to reproduce a run of the product. After this slip-up Queen PLC bought the license from Mercury records (the original license holders) indefinately. The Original 'Queen Rocks Montreal' began life as the VHS 'We Will Rock You'. The rights to this VHS belonged to Yellowbill who basically the sold the licensing rights to anyone who came up with the cash. Therefore there were numerous versions of this concert released, and when DVD came out - was redistributed by Pioneer in one version. Because of all this, Dr. May slated the product. However, there was nothing he could do about it, until Queen PLC bought the license back, and then re-re-re-issued to Dr. May's liking. Finally, my point is that the Japanese VHS license rights ran out (around 2 - 3 years ago) and Queen missed the ball yet again. So the rights to distribute and republish were legally snapped up by a samll independent company. The problem is that - as no one buys VHS anymore - the VHS master (which was essentially sold) was transferred to DVD. Therefore, this is a legal product, sold legally throughout stores in the UK. Now that Brian has seen that he has missed this boat also, what are the bets that another 'Official' version of the Japanese version will appear in the UK market? |
KingMercury 25.02.2008 10:54 |
it is not official |
Penetration_Guru 25.02.2008 12:36 |
Er, Someone else just explained in detail their position, so th eleast you could do is but a little flesh on the bones of that statement for us. You know, to enhance the cut & thrust of debate... |
ITSM 25.02.2008 16:57 |
I just bought Queen / Live in Rio - at the "Rock in Rio" Festival, 1985 DVD Black and white cover with Freddie in the front. 1. Tie your mother down 2. Seven seas of Rhye 3. Keep Yourself Alive 4. Liar 5. It's a hard life 6. Now I'm here 7. Is this the world we created? 8. Love of my life 9. Brighton Rock 10. Hammer to fall 11. Bohemian Rhapsody 12. Radio Ga Ga 13. I Want to break free 14. We will rock you 15. We are the champions 16. God save the Queen Total Running time: 59:25 Is the running time longer on the VHS, with more tracks? I don't have the VHS here with me... |
BradJarre 26.02.2008 17:05 |
Do you know what you should do? Email me:Topgear1990@hotmail.com I can send you a vhs rip from the full first show from Rio 117minutes as a torent. Downloading just turned just over 2days |
Wilki Amieva 26.02.2008 22:20 |
Sorry to disagree. But no-one from the so-called MP editions is official. This Japanese label has released a lot of DVDs from other bands, including well-known bootlegs. They even have produced stuff in DVD-Rs. Granted, a lot of small labels from around the world are releasing MP stuff with a (bogus) "sub-license" from them, but IMHO a counterfeit from a counterfeit is still a counterfeit. |
Wilki Amieva 27.02.2008 08:14 |
Something more: WE WILL ROCK YOU copyright and publishing rights were never owned by QUEEN until last year, while the rights of the japanese stuff were bought by QUEEN Films in 1992 - so the analogy is not good enough. And I remember seeing unofficial material "legally" sold in major stores: QUEEN IN NUCE, PRE-ORDAINED, etc. It has happened before. |
kestrel101 27.02.2008 09:08 |
Technically, I think Yellowbill only had the rights to distribute We Will Rock You in the continent of North America, didn't they? The small print on the box says the rights of the show were co-owned by Queen from it's very first VHS release in the UK on Peppermint Home Video. But I suppose if you sub-licence something out for a certain period of time, then you have to get used to the idea that the people putting up the money, are going to try to make some money out of it. By the same token, I think Live In Budapest was co-owned by Mafilm, which if I rembember the news report correctly, they said was a part of Hungary's state owned film company. |
John S Stuart 27.02.2008 09:32 |
kestrel101 wrote: ... But I suppose if you sub-licence something out for a certain period of time, then you have to get used to the idea that the people putting up the money, are going to try to make some money out of it.So to answer the original question Kes, I believe this DVD to be a 'genuine (kosher) product' - ie NOT a pirate or a bootleg - EXACTLY for the reason you outline above. However, being recognised as an 'Officially Stamped QPL Authorised' product is a completely different question. Then again, I am open for correction if someone comes up with a good enough rebuttal. |
Tero 27.02.2008 10:29 |
John S Stuart wrote: my point is that the Japanese VHS license rights ran out (around 2 - 3 years ago) and Queen missed the ball yet again. So the rights to distribute and republish were legally snapped up by a samll independent company. The problem is that - as no one buys VHS anymore - the VHS master (which was essentially sold) was transferred to DVD.I don't doubt this as a potential explanation, but why would the rights of a VHS license include the rights to sell DVDs? I don't believe for a second that as late as 2005 any serious company (which I don't believe QPL to be...) selling their VHS rights wouldn't explicitly forbid any DVD release. |
John S Stuart 27.02.2008 11:16 |
Tero wrote:No: You miss the point.It is NOT the right to sell VHS or DVD's that is up for sale, it is the right to sell product made from the 'master mould'.John S Stuart wrote: my point is that the Japanese VHS license rights ran out (around 2 - 3 years ago) and Queen missed the ball yet again. So the rights to distribute and republish were legally snapped up by a samll independent company. The problem is that - as no one buys VHS anymore - the VHS master (which was essentially sold) was transferred to DVD.I don't doubt this as a potential explanation, but why would the rights of a VHS license include the rights to sell DVDs? Let me try to uncomplicate it: As far as CD's are concerned CBS own the rights to all Roy Orbison's 'Studio masters'. When companies like Monument, Virgin, K-Tel, or Charlie Records buy the rights to stamp Orbison CD's - they do not stamp these discs from the original CBS 'master tapes'. Rather, they are stamped from inferior 'safety masters' - or COPIES. The safety master used to stamp this Queen VHS/DVD - was NOT the 'master - master tape' but a safety or degenerated copy. It is these 'rights' we are disputing. Therefore, it is the safety master (or copy) which is hawked - not the 'real thing'. Once you own the rights to that then you can release it on any format you like (even Blu-ray if you want to). The problem is that these commerial copies can only be as good as the masters they are leased from, and as can bee seen from this product, the mould used to create these idscs are not up to DVD standard. Nevertheless, the rights to stamp out the tape, disc or CD even is what is at stake. If they have purchased a licensed to reproduce - it is an OFFICIAL product! |
Tero 27.02.2008 13:48 |
No: You miss the point.It is NOT the right to sell VHS or DVD's that is up for sale, it is the right to sell product made from the 'master mould'.I must really be missing the point, because I just can't get my head around that. Would I have the right to manufacture and sell copies of the Japanese dvd release just because I'm not using a "master" of any sort, or would I need to make a saparate contract with the owner of the distribution rights to sell the copies I make? |
John S Stuart 27.02.2008 16:37 |
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Tero 28.02.2008 00:12 |
John S Stuart wrote:I'm starting to get a bit confused here, so maybe it's better to start from the beginning... What we have isTero wrote:Try this: First: The Original 'Queen' LP is now c35 years old. If that license came up to reproduce the product, and I buy into that license, then I can sell that product quite legitimately. I can now sell that product on the 'John S. Stuart' label - provided I make it clear that it is under license from QPL. I can even buy (according to my finances) a 'limited license'. This limitation may be a territory (eg: UK only) or for a limited run (eg: 5000 copies in total). But this license is NOT for the 'Queen' master-tapes. So I would not have access to 'Polar Bear' or 'Silver Salmon'. Rather I have bought the rights to reproduce the 'safety master' of the 'Queen' LP only. Second: However, if I wish to reproduce these as a run 5000 12" coloured vinyls - then under the terms of the license I could. The same is true for 12" picture discs, CDS, DVD-A, mini-discs or any other format as - so long as I do not exceed that run of 5000. Whether I can release 2,500 CDs and 2,500 DVD-A's I do not know - but I would guess that should be fine under the licensing agreement. Third: Because Queen have been paid up-front, I can charge as little or as much as I like for my product. I can even give them away free in a Sunday newspaper - if I so desire, because I paid for a license to distribute. Finally: It is this license which seperates an official product from an unofficial product. However, I am still open to persuasion.No: You miss the point.It is NOT the right to sell VHS or DVD's that is up for sale, it is the right to sell product made from the 'master mould'.I must really be missing the point, because I just can't get my head around that. 1a) The physical ownership of musical recordings. (Queen Archives) 1b) The copyright of the music, including the rights to decide who can use the material and where. (Queen Productions Ltd.) 2a) The physical ownership of the original video recordings for Final Live in Japan. (JEC International?) 2b) The copyright of the finished and edited concert video. (p&c 1992 Queen Films Ltd. under exclusive license Watanabe Music Publishing Co., Ltd. to JEC International Corp., Japan) 3) The right to reproduce the concert video (Wowow Inc) Without further knowledge on the subject one would assume that this concert video is treated as an original "work of art" dated in 1992, and as such would be subject to the same limitations as any other release from 1992 (ie. you require the permission of the copyright holder to re-release that same product). This permission can naturally be bought and sold with or without any master recordings, but it should be illegal to release the product without this permission? The way I interpret the back of the official DVD is that Queen Films owns the copyright of this programme, and have leased it exclusively to Watanabe, which in turn has sold it to Wowow Inc for a release. Unfortunately that's as far as I can reason it without knowing the contracts... The copyright should still be in place for the product, but for a regular consumer it's impossible to know who is authorised to release the product. Is it QP's decision? Is it Watanabe's decision? Is it Wowow's decision? Have they sold the rights on to yet another party? My personal gut feeling is that any company who says the rights are licensed from "Queen Film" (sp) should not be trusted. |
John S Stuart 28.02.2008 06:34 |
Tero: The way I interpret the back of the official DVD is that Queen Films owns the copyright of this programme, and have leased it exclusively to Watanabe, which in turn has sold it to Wowow Inc for a release. That is an exactly correct interpretation. Except, 'Watanabe' and 'Wowow' have a license to sell exclusively in Japan ONLY. That is why 'Watanabe' and 'Wowow' can NOT sell this product in the US or Europe, because under the terms of their lease - they are NOT licensed to do so. Ofcourse you may pick up the odd import, (or like me - buy directly from a Japanese internet site), but the 'Watanabe' and 'Wowow' license is specificallly designed for that territory only. This means that the licenses for the USA and Europe can be picked up by someone else other than 'Watanabe' and 'Wowow' to distribute in their home territories, and that is what has happened here in the UK. I guess Queen Productions still own the copyright - but have leased that copyright to a UK firm other than the Japanese 'Watanabe' and 'Wowow'. I also feel that the European versions are UK imports rather than 'home grown' product. |
Tero 28.02.2008 08:03 |
John S Stuart wrote: Tero: The way I interpret the back of the official DVD is that Queen Films owns the copyright of this programme, and have leased it exclusively to Watanabe, which in turn has sold it to Wowow Inc for a release. That is an exactly correct interpretation. Except, 'Watanabe' and 'Wowow' have a license to sell exclusively in Japan ONLY.Yes, that sounds reasonable. John S Stuart wrote: I guess Queen Productions still own the copyright - but have leased that copyright to a UK firm other than the Japanese 'Watanabe' and 'Wowow'. I also feel that the European versions are UK imports rather than 'home grown' product.I don't know about the policies of QP, but it would be really, REALLY stupid of them to license one of their products to an outside company after complaining about WWRY for years... They couldn't be that stupid, could they? So... If QP owns the copyright, and has only leased it to authorise the Japanese release(s), the European releases must by illegal (because of the copyright infringement), regardless of any master tapes or safety masters which have exchanged hands. Masterplan could have legally bought the tape, but not have a right to release its contents. |
John S Stuart 28.02.2008 10:41 |
Tero wrote:First answer: YES - QPL are that stupid. Remember they are a business interested first and foremost in making lots of MONEY - NOT the quality of the product.John S Stuart wrote: Tero: The way I interpret the back of the official DVD is that Queen Films owns the copyright of this programme, and have leased it exclusively to Watanabe, which in turn has sold it to Wowow Inc for a release. That is an exactly correct interpretation. Except, 'Watanabe' and 'Wowow' have a license to sell exclusively in Japan ONLY.1: I don't know about the policies of QP, but it would be really, REALLY stupid of them to license one of their products to an outside company after complaining about WWRY for years... They couldn't be that stupid, could they? 2: If QP owns the copyright, and has only leased it to authorise the Japanese release(s), the European releases must by illegal (because of the copyright infringement), regardless of any master tapes or safety masters which have exchanged hands. Masterplan could have legally bought the tape, but not have a right to release its contents. So from their point of view - big bucks for miniumum effort. Perhaps then QPL are not so stupid after all! Second answer: I have no idea. You have lost me. Why MUST the European releases be illegal if they too have been licensed under the copyright holder? Just because 'Watanabe' and 'Wowow' have a license to sell exclusively in Japan ONLY - why does that make 'other territory licencees' (such as the UK) illegal? Surely QPL can sell the license to reproduce to as many different companies as they see fit? So if they sell a license to reproduce in Asia, and another (different license) for Europe, a third and yet another different license for the USA market - but have leased these licenses to three different companies - wherein lies the problem? Frankly - I really don't care anymore and lost the will to live about three or four replies ago. |
Tero 28.02.2008 11:26 |
You obviously did lose me in the 2nd part, so I'll just run it through once again in case you're bored enough to read... If the ONLY license QP has sold is the one to Japan, it means there wouldn't be one for Europe. They can sell it to 200 different companies in 200 different countries if they choose to, but if it has been sold to only ONE country, the releases in the other countries must by definition be illegal. What it really comes down to is what their motivation is. If they are just looking for a way to get rid of the titles which they are NEVER going to release themselves, they would have sold the rights to Masterplan/whatever. If they have any interest in the release, or any professional pride in it, they wouldn't have sold it. Is there any way to know for certain? |
John S Stuart 28.02.2008 11:49 |
Tero wrote: You obviously did lose me in the 2nd part, so I'll just run it through once again in case you're bored enough to read... If the ONLY license QP has sold is the one to Japan, it means there wouldn't be one for Europe.NO, no, no, no, no, no, no! There is NOT one giant SOLE license overall, only individual licenses per territory. So Queen CAN sell one license to Japan - AND - CAN also sell another different license to Europe. These are DIFFERENT countries - therefore they are covered by DIFFERENT licenses. Ultimately they are all owned by Queen. |
John S Stuart 28.02.2008 11:50 |
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Tero 28.02.2008 13:16 |
John S Stuart wrote:Did you even read what I just wrote? Is my English that incomprehensible?Tero wrote: You obviously did lose me in the 2nd part, so I'll just run it through once again in case you're bored enough to read... If the ONLY license QP has sold is the one to Japan, it means there wouldn't be one for Europe.NO, no, no, no, no, no, no! There is NOT one giant SOLE license overall, only sole licenses per territory. So Queen CAN sell one license to Japan - AND - CAN also sell another different license to Europe. These are DIFFERENT countries - therefore they are covered by DIFFERENT licenses. Ultimately they are all owned by Queen. Sheeesh - give me a break! Can anyone else help me out here? "If the ONLY license QP has sold is the one to Japan, it means there wouldn't be one for Europe." The ONLY license in this case means the one license out of the potential hundreds that is CURRENTLY valid, and happens to be the one for Japan. I did not mention EXCLUSIVE license, nor did I imply it. "If the ONLY license QP has sold is the one to Japan, it means there wouldn't be one for Europe" is a philosophical statement of the obvious ("if there is only one, there are no others"), not a claim that QP could only issue one license at a time. |
John S Stuart 28.02.2008 14:26 |
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Michael Allred 28.02.2008 14:51 |
Well if Queen (or specifically Brian) cared about quality as much as he claims he does, they would have released the '82 and '85 Japan concerts officially on DVD worldwide with all the remastering, remixing, etc etc that they do with all their other DVDs so far. Hell, make it a double feature set if they think one show onit's own wouldn't perform as well commercially. That would clear up a whole lot of confusion and give these shows their proper due. |
Tero 28.02.2008 15:11 |
John S Stuart wrote: Yes: I have read what you have written. I have been patient, I have been courteous, I have been polite - but I think either your comprehension skills must be very poor - or you are being deliberately obtuse. In either case, I can not be bothered any more. As I said - let's just call it a pirate - and you know what - I really don't give a f*ck. I'm off to get laid!I'm actually far more interested in knowing the truth which releases are official, but if it makes your bruised ego feel better, by all means just keep reading and imagining whatever you want regardless of the actual words. Either way, have a good night! |
John S Stuart 28.02.2008 16:36 |
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Winter Land Man 28.02.2008 18:27 |
On that concert, Queen used the keyboard too much! |
Tero 28.02.2008 23:44 |
John S Stuart wrote: you have beaten me into submission with the power of your nagging.That's pretty rich coming from somebody who will read into other people's messages only what he wants! It would be nice if somebody else reading this discussion would have commented on whether they understood what I was getting at (hint hint!), but as long as that's not going to happen, I'll just let you have the last word after this message. |
kestrel101 01.03.2008 06:53 |
Tero. I understood what you were getting at, mate! I also understood what JSS was getting at. Hand on heart, I seriously respect the pair of you as both being switched-on kiddies, who are able to put across your points with eloquence, and a basis of logical thought and fact. Here's my tuppence worth...... I consider that although the product was legal in Japan because of a licence with the Watanabe Music company, I'm of the personal opinion that this licence is exclusive to the territory of Japan. I'm not convinced that as Queen Productions Limited are the co-owners of the original recorded work, that it is officially licensed to be released anywhere else, because the band hold the ability to veto it, anywhere outside the original licence territory, a la We Will Rock You, only getting an "official" DVD release in North America, where Yellowbill held the rights to distribution. Outside of North America, and outside of the local licensing periods, Queen could (and DID) veto it's release everywhere else in the world, waiting instead for the complete global rights to return to them, so they could put out Queen Rock Montreal, exactly as they wanted it done. What makes me think this way? Queen STILL have an exclusive contract with the EMI group of companies for Europe, and only by mutual agreement between QPL and EMI, can anything be subbed out to a third party company. I'm thinking of the Eagle releases in particular here. Another was that on first seeing Amazon selling European copies of variants of "The Final Live In Japan" show on DVD, I indirectly alerted Mr Beach, who apparently knew nothing about this show being available through local manufactiure, either officially, or unofficially, in Europe. As he's the guy who ultimately does all the sign-off's with Queen's official product, then a lack of knowledge of the existence of this DVD, might be thought of, as irregular, to say the least. So, yeah, I see where you're both coming from, and agree with elements of what both of you have said. It doesn't mean any of us are right though. To a degree it's just conjecture, really. To prove the point that none of us really know what the score is COMPLETELY, Mafilm co-owned the rights of Live In Budapest, I never saw them exploit their rights like Mobilvision/Yellowbill or Watanabe Music have, but then I've not seen what was written into the distribution contract, either, so, in essence, my view is that despite mentioning who actually owns the copyright, this Euro version of 'Final Live In Japan' is as kosher as a pork chop. But that's all it is, my view. |
kestrel101 01.03.2008 07:26 |
While I think about it....... Reputably, although Yellowbill held the original prints of the film (visuals) of We Will Rock You, they didn't have possession of the multi-tracks, as Brian has famously said, Queen held those. That being the case, how did they do a 5.1 mix, in the sort of quality that was evident on the Pioneer release, for the DVD issue in North America. See, although we can argue the toss over stuff like this, some questions, just evoke other questions. (NB: Someone's probably now going to burst my balloon by saying that the theatrical release was always in surround sound, of one form or another.) |
Tero 02.03.2008 09:39 |
kestrel101 wrote: Tero. I understood what you were getting at, mate!I didn't expect to be able to say this, but it's nice that you can see my point on anything regarding this subject... ;) |
kestrel101 03.03.2008 11:33 |
Now, now, water under the bridge, and all that. In previous discussions, we both knew we were right, well at least from our own perspectives anyway, and when that happens, it's a case of who shouts loudest, and also who has the best ear plugs! lol. |
kestrel101 03.03.2008 11:33 |
Duplicated post |