| Yara 07.02.2008 18:08 |
I'm an idiot. That's a fact. It's not what the topic is about. I can't understand, for the life of me, why Berlim 86 or Wembley 80 have never been officially released? First thing: as much as I analyse vocal techniques, harmnony, the very act of interpreting a song, pitch, pitch color and quality and lots of stuff more, I try very, very hard to agree with you guys, who I know are far better musicians than me and know much more about Queen, but I can't understand why people say that Queen, and particularly Freddie, was good in the 70's, and it remained so over the 80's, but not with the same quality and magic. Freddie's voice would have taken a downturn around 82-83 and then, by the time of Works Tour or Magic Tour, he couldn't "reach the high notes" (I can't understand that, really), his voice "was not the same", so on. I respect your opinion and my point of departure is that I'm wrong because people who know Queen far better than me and are good musicians tell me that. Just to take an example. I was listening to Berlim86. Take Freddie's delivery of "Tie Your Mother Down". The concert was recorded in such a way that we hear quite clearly that he's taking the high notes in the harmony too, and it's mainly his voice that we listen to. He must have been dancing before going to the last part. Listen to 1:39-1:34/33. He departs from low tenor to C5# smoothly, there's no "crash" in his voice. It's so well executed, in fact, that I can only compare it to "on fire at the bowl" and Wembley 1980, althought the range of Berlim6 sounds larger, broader, because he's able to take low notes - they're important too... - I can't listen to in what he recorded in the 70s. Now, take Tokyo76 and Berlim86. Listen to "In the lap of Gods". My point is not what version is better - Tokyo76 version of this one is better, to my taste, at any rate - but about his voice. By Berlim86, he's not only reaching higher notes in the song than in Tokyo36 (and I'm not talking about the falsetto, which is already hard enough to do in this song) but his voice sounds much more resonant, powerful, full and clean without losing its softness and delicacy. I don't like Houston77, but Tokyo76, yes, I liked it and I think some songs are better there, though not because of technical skills or substantial changing in his voice, but as a matter of interpretation. That second night in Vienna, 1986. (Berlim86 too, but in Vienna that's more clear, I think). The beginning of Bohemian is so beautiful: it's smooth, clean, delicate and powerful. And he adds somethig so beautiful there. He doesn't sing "Carry on, carry on", but "Carry on?" - as if in doubt - and then he decides but in a very frail beautiful way: "carry ooOOONn" and then his passage to the lower register is so well done that, you know, it's smooth, seamless, I think these are the words in English: it's subtle, you feel it as a natural development of the song (it's executed exactly like that in Berlim86, so it was deliberate and a clever way of singing the verse) Then he lets "time" break along with his body that is aching all the time, so to say: "body is aching all the{time}", it sounds like a shy, very shy person who's suffering and asking for help (it's interpretation, I don't mean he was feeling that way in the moment). It's one of the best live versions of this song, to my taste. Freddie's voiced cracked pretty much in the 70's and I think he evolved so much as a singer since those years. There's much more to listen to, but from the 80's on you can see that something has changed in his technique. He learned a lot. I don't know if by listening to other singers or by intuition, but he evolved quite a lot. Wembley 80 is really great in terms of vocal technique: it's all throughout the recording, as well as in Berlim 86 or Vienna 86, 2nd night. Now, I'm not saying his voice didn |
| Cwazy little thing 07.02.2008 19:14 |
Thats an interesting position/opinion you hold there. I agree to an extent - Freddie may well have been a better singer in 1986 than in the 70's; he may have learnt a heck of a lot about how to get the best out of his voice, and on record, his voice was definately stronger all round. BUT, there is something to be said for the quality of his voice itself, not just the way in which he used it, which was better in the 70's in my opinion. His voice was smoother, and he could definately hit some higher notes without needing to force as much as he did in later days. His voice in the 80's had definately taking a hit from his lifestyle, so it was different. But thats where I agree with you - I think he knew how to use it better, which is why some of his last recordings are some of his most memorable and powerful. You want a versatile, wide ranging and quality voice - look at the 70's. You want a man who knew exactly how to get an emotional sounding and exciting performance from an all round more powerful voice, perhaps with a lesser range, but a more practiced execution - look at the 80's. |
| Yara 07.02.2008 21:54 |
Thank you very much for the reply. Thanks, thanks, thanks! I needed that. It's a limitation of mine: I can't go beyond this point, it's out of my reach and understanding. It's like a wall you can neither dismantle nor circumvent. It's time for me to stop and accept that I'm unable to discuss this issue, I don't get the basics. It happens, it's normal. Your reply helped me, I do need a lot more training and I haven't been studying as hard as I should. Take care and I wish you the best! Yara |
| Roger Meadows Tailor 07.02.2008 23:31 |
Yara my friend. 1) You are definitely not an idiot.You're coming across as very intellectual,especially on the music side.Much more than most QZers i might hasten to add. 2) You're only expressing your very valued opinion of Freddie's vocal technique bith in the seventies and in the eighties.In the seventies his vocals were a bit on the thin side IMHO.Which suited some of the songs they recorded and did on stage,but not all.As Queen metamophisised into the eighties version,so Freddie may well have decided to change his vocal technique to suit Dont forget,there's other little odds and sods to take into consideration.The temperature at the gig,the heaviness of the air can affect your vocal chords.Being under those lights,which creates a lot of heat themselves,in an already hot temperature can also affect your vocals and sometimes you gotta change your style to suit that too.Plus,ofcourse,it doesnt help if you've been drinking,smoking and partying the night before,which ofcourse you shouldnt do(hmmm!) Hope you are keeping well my friend.Hope that has been of any use to you.RMT |
| una999 08.02.2008 11:19 |
Yara wrote: Thank you very much for the reply. Thanks, thanks, thanks! I needed that. It's a limitation of mine: I can't go beyond this point, it's out of my reach and understanding. It's like a wall you can neither dismantle nor circumvent. It's time for me to stop and accept that I'm unable to discuss this issue, I don't get the basics. It happens, it's normal. Your reply helped me, I do need a lot more training and I haven't been studying as hard as I should. Take care and I wish you the best! YaraOk why have you so little confidence - surely you're not intimidated by people who profess to know it all on this site? They act like police, probably because they control nothing worthwhile on their own lives that they come on here and bash people. I don't give a shit, so join the club!! I agree Freddies voice was good in the 80's but different to 70's. Completely different. Just natural more than anything. Some singers voices stay the same like Bono, Roger Taylor...but freddies changed - I don't know why, is it natural in that his voice just matured. Suppose it changed just like his image. |
| Yara 08.02.2008 13:20 |
Roger and Una999 Thank you very much for your helpful replies, I really enjoyed it and learned from it. I hope you're doing fine. I'm fine, lot of hard work in the studio, piano practice, singing and studying. I haven't slept last night because I had to do some studies on math and sound engineering for a test I took this morning. lol It went all well and fine. And I'm not sleepy!!!! BUt it's a pleasure to work with and study music, it's what I like the most. THank you again. May I point something out to you guys? Have you already downloaded the great Berlin 86 recording that has been uploaded and shared here? If you did, well, did you also find it exciting "In the Lap of the Gods revisited"? IT's track 3 (it's named "medley", I guess). MY favorite version of this song by a far margin. Freddie does the falsetto and instead of leaving it to deliver a powerful blasting shout, he sings the next lines in a very tender, progressively higher and smooth way: he does the whole introduction of the song, before the chorus, in legato!!!! And it's a beautiful legato, the notes are just right, very well thought out and executed, very, very beautiful and exquisite. YOu get the feeling of somebody who's in his last breath and can't stop it. He streches the notes with a mixture of anguish, melancholy and triumph that really in such a way that what would pass as pretty normal verses end up being quite poetic. THe lyrics get better because of his singing. THe way he sings it gets you to interpret the lyrics very differently. There's a feeling of more cleverness, depth and universality in the lyrics. It gives you strong musical and intellectual reasons to give the verses many other possible meanings. It's all great. "whaaaaat yooou waaant meee tooo bee" just after a stupendous modulation in "talk about". The falsetto is very well executed. I came in here thinking Mercury was a good singer, period. He was not. He was a very good musician. A consumate one. I do these things with all kinds of bands but Mercury is in a league of his own. There's a lot of intelligence behind the singing and his playing as well. THank you all again, take care and I wish you well. |
| Roger Meadows Tailor 08.02.2008 14:41 |
Thank you Yara for the kind words,my friend.Its a pleasure messaging you. Yara,you astound me.I mean that in the nicest way. I had been gigging for 12 years solid week in week out,singing and playing up and down the UK and here i am reading and learning from YOU.A lot of what you're saying is absolutely spot on about singing and yet you say you're an IDIOT!!? I happen to think i've got a fair amount of knowledge about singing and playing but BY GOD i'll need to go some to beat you.Stand up and take a bow,my friend. I did download the Berlin86 gig but for reasons i cant go into i had lost all of my Queen downloads CDs DVDs etc.Yes i did rather enjoy "In The Lap Of The Gods(Revisited)".And yes i would say that Freddie's singing had been much sweeter when needed and much punchier when needed too in that song than he had been singing wise for a few years.Looking back on it now,i think it may be fair to say that his voice may have got better towards the end of his life. I can maybe go one better.On that song,i last saw Queen perform it at Knebworth 86.The time before then i saw them perform it in Glasgow 75.Comparing the two together.Well...considering they may only have played that song sporadically over that eleven year period.I would say the Knebworth version was better.Just.Freddie's vocals were a bit stronger and better than the Wembley gig prior to that.Plus it was a really nice surprise,for me,to hear that song again.And the little bit of "Liar"in the medley too.I wanted them to play the full song. Yes he did sing falsetto in the seventies but it wasnt as accentuated as it was in the eighties.Plus as i've said.Freddie changed as Queen changed in the eighties.His on stage personna became much more macho whereas in the seventies he was more effeminate.And it showed in his vocals as well.What do you think my friend. By the way Yara.Good to hear you're back doing your music,my friend.If i was in Brazil i would love to jam with you.Any kind of music. Take care. |
| Yara 08.02.2008 18:53 |
Roger Meadows Tailor wrote: I can maybe go one better.On that song,i last saw Queen perform it at Knebworth 86.The time before then i saw them perform it in Glasgow 75.Comparing the two together.Well...considering they may only have played that song sporadically over that eleven year period.I would say the Knebworth version was better.Just.Freddie's vocals were a bit stronger and better than the Wembley gig prior to that.Plus it was a really nice surprise,for me,to hear that song again.And the little bit of "Liar"in the medley too.I wanted them to play the full song. Yes he did sing falsetto in the seventies but it wasnt as accentuated as it was in the eighties.Plus as i've said.Freddie changed as Queen changed in the eighties.His on stage personna became much more macho whereas in the seventies he was more effeminate.And it showed in his vocals as well.What do you think my friend. By the way Yara.Good to hear you're back doing your music,my friend.If i was in Brazil i would love to jam with you.Any kind of music. Take care.Thank you again for the kind words, Roger. It's really nice of you. Wow, I liked your reply, and I fully agree with you. You said yourself: "Freddie changed as Queen changed in the eighties". What I enjoyed the most was the part in which you compare - quite cool the way you did it - the last time you saw Queen play that song, and the first time, and then, after so many years, you express what are your feelings about it all right now. And there you are, you've been to Queen's concerts, you're a professional musician and you enjoyed Kneb's version of the song even more than the one you listened to in Glasgow. Maybe Freddie and Queen not only changed, but really evolved!!! Yes, I wished they had played "liar" in its entirety there too! This feeling often occurs to me: "Ah, if they played Save Me in Wembley, Berlim or Kneb 86...". lol I get curious to know about how would it be like if they played this song live in that period. And I ask myself contrarywise: "How would Under Pressure sound in 76?", lol. There's just a blank spot: It would have sounded zero, nothing, because Under Pressure is pretty much a product of the eighties Queen you mention, and I agree. Well, I'm honored, really. Thank you very much for even bothering replying to my post and helping me! I needed help there to sort me out of what seemed to me an enigma. Thank you, very much, very much. You're so humane, sensitive, that's great. I needed help and you came to rescue me, and you did it! lol Thanks!!! I'm so exhausted and tired. Still at school. Still have to do a whole lot of work and study. I'm going to drink some water, lay down in the garden next to the building and then I go to the instruments, books, machinery, all that stuff. You'd never jam with me because you'd be embarassed at my misery as a musician, especially playing or singing live. I get too nervous. I was to give a recital and sing some songs last month, I accepted but when the day finally arrived, I was there, at the little theather, in the backstage, shaking like hell! I couldn't stand on my feet, really. I started crying. lol I know it sounds ridiculous. People threw me there basically and I couldn't hit a single key in the piano. I couldn't. I began to cry in public. The audience was not that friendly - they were right - because they paid - not many people, very cheap, don't think it's a gig! - and wanted to hear some music. They already had the setlist. I was booed off the stage and then a friend of mine played some very popular Brazilian tunes on the piano and the audience, althought shocked at the change of the setlist, loved his playing. Thank yoooouu!!! You're great. I wish you well. Take care. Your comments really enlightned me - you expressed it quite directly and made a very interesing comparison - and I'm honored to receive your reply. Rea |
| Roger Meadows Tailor 09.02.2008 00:09 |
Yara,my friend,its a pleasure speaking to you,a fellow musician.And a good one at that.I can tell.Do you want to know how?Because every great musician experiences those "miseries as a musician" as you call them. I am my own worst critic and so when i look out at that audience,i see a thousand of me and go weak-kneed.But i have to stop myself and think"They're not me and probably half of them wont know good music if it come up and hit them in the face".I know you shouldnt think such things,but its a tactic i use to help calm me down.Even after all these years,before every gig i used it.I used to spent about an hour or two before every gig,warming up my fingers and toes and just about everything else(he he he).Going down and up the scales and modes.That helped to get rid of nervous tensions that i had as well. Yara my friend,believe you me,you're already more than half way there to becoming the most consummate musician anybody could ever wish to be.All you need is a bit of confidence in yourself.And believe you me,that confidence will come,my friend,One other thing Yara,i'd be so proud to gig with you.Even as now. Get out there,my friend,and knock 'em dead. By the way,how are you today.RMT |
| Yara 11.02.2008 22:31 |
Hi, dear. How are you? Have you been playing lately? I'm trashed, wasted. I think I never studied and worked so hard in my life: 20 hours/day. I can't even go out with my friends to have some fun and party. I love it because it's music and music is my life, but I feel like I'm isolated in an institution and alienated from the world out there. I can't follow any topic my friends bring up during our conversations because I don't know what they're talking about, so I basically keep asking about it just to know what's happening in the real world out there. lol I'm seeding - I could only listen to it once - Queen's concert in Vienna, 13th may 1982. Freddie's performance is so impressive that it's impossible to go into it here, I lack the time to do it, but I would like to thank Ginger01 and JosedeQueso for uploading and sharing this concert and I'm seeding it and will keep seeding it as long as people need. I hope you enjoy it. Well, I think that's it. I'm getting so boring, I don't have anything to say anymore, I feel like I'm getting more and more dumb with time. Oh, boy, sorry. I hope you're doing fine, dear. Thank you all and hope you enjoy this concert, it's really a very remarkable and impressive performance by Freddie. It'd take a month to go into it, it's very interesting and has some real surprises. I'm lucky to be part of Queenzone, indeed! Thank you all, take care Roger, and that's it, I guess. Yara |
| carboengine 11.02.2008 23:39 |
Hi, Yara. As a hobby I have studied homeopathic medicine for about 25 years, and I have approximately 40 books on it. The medicines are primarily made from plants. There is one called Gelsemium. Among its other uses, it is given a lot for those who have "funk" as before an examination, stage-fright, or whatever dread a person may have for an upcoming event, such as a person who gets very nervous before going on a trip. It settles them down. Gelsemium can be purchased over the counter. Perhaps it would help you. I love Freddie Mercury, especially his pure, sweet voice in the early years, and it seems to me to have gone back to that once he quit smoking; although I really don't know for sure which songs were before or after smoking. |
| Roger Meadows Tailor 12.02.2008 10:47 |
Yara wrote: Hi, dear. How are you? Have you been playing lately? I'm trashed, wasted. I think I never studied and worked so hard in my life: 20 hours/day. I can't even go out with my friends to have some fun and party. I love it because it's music and music is my life, but I feel like I'm isolated in an institution and alienated from the world out there. I can't follow any topic my friends bring up during our conversations because I don't know what they're talking about, so I basically keep asking about it just to know what's happening in the real world out there. lol I'm seeding - I could only listen to it once - Queen's concert in Vienna, 13th may 1982. Freddie's performance is so impressive that it's impossible to go into it here, I lack the time to do it, but I would like to thank Ginger01 and JosedeQueso for uploading and sharing this concert and I'm seeding it and will keep seeding it as long as people need. I hope you enjoy it. Well, I think that's it. I'm getting so boring, I don't have anything to say anymore, I feel like I'm getting more and more dumb with time. Oh, boy, sorry. I hope you're doing fine, dear. Thank you all and hope you enjoy this concert, it's really a very remarkable and impressive performance by Freddie. It'd take a month to go into it, it's very interesting and has some real surprises. I'm lucky to be part of Queenzone, indeed! Thank you all, take care Roger, and that's it, I guess. YaraYara my friend.How are you.I sincerely hope you're fine and not completely burned out. My friend,20 hours a day is way too much.At that rate you WILL burn out and i,for one,dont want to see that happen to you.Sometimes its good for you to chill.By the way,QZ is lucky to have YOU.Not the other way about Yara.You see,as carboengine and saltnvinegar have proved as well,we care about you Make time for yourself my friend.You deserve it.What with you being in the hospital recently.Thats probably why you're sooooo whacked out.And you're not dumb. Yara my friend.I've sent you an email with my address in it incase you wanted to contact me for anything.Sorry if i sound overbearing but i genuinely care. You take care and i genuinely hope for that day that you and i can gig together.I'm currently working myself up to speed on guitar and working on my own music singing wise,so yes i'm doing music quite a bit at the moment Take care my dear.RMT |