QueenZone discussion #1057914
Best Drummer Roger Taylor VS Phil Collins
| matlin 17.11.2007 12:38 |
Just been watching Phil playing on You Tube and we all know how good Rog is but who do you think is the better drummer .. |
| Ms. Rebel 17.11.2007 12:46 |
Phil Collins. |
| Serry... 17.11.2007 13:18 |
The better drummer - Roger Taylor The better Phil Collins - Phil Collins |
| The Real Wizard 17.11.2007 17:22 |
Phil Collins, by far. Listen to Genesis from 72-76, and Brand X. |
| Roger Meadows Tailor 18.11.2007 03:54 |
Phil Collins isnt so much a drummer,more a jazz/rock percussionist and so therefore differs slightly from Roger.Thats why Phil plays all those peculiar time signatures like 9/8 and 16/9 for example....and he's left handed too. |
| ANAGRAMER 18.11.2007 09:37 |
In terms of technical ability, there are guys out there with all the chops eg Neil Peart, but, when it comes to arranging drums appropriately to each indiviual song, Roger is perhaps unequalled; maintains a distinictive style while giving each song its appropriate measure. Is is the same guy playing AOBTD and The Prophets Song - try askin Phil C, Neil P to do that! |
| The Real Wizard 18.11.2007 09:44 |
ANAGRAMER wrote: when it comes to arranging drums appropriately to each indiviual song...Subdivisions and Firth Of Fifth have better drum arrangements than any Queen song. As much I love Queen for being a band that arranges great songs overall, and as much as Roger has his distinctive sound, there is no way he is a better player/arranger than Phil or Peart. |
| QueenTaylor 18.11.2007 09:48 |
hmmm...Id' say Roger and it's not because I absolutely adore him, it's just that I really love his drumming style and I think he's an awesome drum player. Whole lotta talent! =) but Phil Collins is excellent as well. |
| its_a_hard_life 26994 18.11.2007 09:57 |
It's all about Keith Moon. |
| Roger Meadows Tailor 18.11.2007 10:42 |
<font color="#FF00FF">its_a_hard_life wrote: It's all about Keith Moon.Keith Moon could play the drums blindfolded. If you look at his playing style he never ever looked at his drums while he was playing. Amazing drummer. |
| Music Man 18.11.2007 13:19 |
The best drummer is Buddy Rich. Yes. |
| Nathan 18.11.2007 13:22 |
By far and away Buddy Rich with Sandy Nelson in second. |
| QueenTaylor 18.11.2007 13:27 |
<font color=666600><b>Music Man wrote: The best drummer is Buddy Rich. Yes.true |
| QueenTaylor 18.11.2007 13:27 |
Nathan wrote: By far and away Buddy Rich with Sandy Nelson in second. and true for Buddy rich as well! lol Hey Nath! Haven't seen you in a while =) |
| matlin 18.11.2007 13:45 |
Roger Meadows Tailor wrote:Yes Keith Moon was a ledgend who is sadly missed.<font color="#FF00FF">its_a_hard_life wrote: It's all about Keith Moon.Keith Moon could play the drums blindfolded. If you look at his playing style he never ever looked at his drums while he was playing. Amazing drummer. |
| Nevermind 18.11.2007 16:12 |
I think the Gorilla in the Cadbury's advert beats them all! On a serious note hmm... it would be tough as they are both v diff, I'd say they were about the same. |
| maxpower 18.11.2007 16:28 |
though it pains me collins in terms of "technic" |
| FriedChicken 18.11.2007 19:39 |
Phil |
| josedequeso 18.11.2007 19:49 |
Phil Collins going away. Phil brought a lot of complex rythems into his work and live he was on another planet. |
| QueenTaylor 18.11.2007 22:51 |
.....ASSDUDE...... wrote:haha...defenitely! I have to agree!Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:well thats your opinion, I still think Roger T from Queen is numero Uno.ANAGRAMER wrote: when it comes to arranging drums appropriately to each indiviual song...Subdivisions and Firth Of Fifth have better drum arrangements than any Queen song. As much I love Queen for being a band that arranges great songs overall, and as much as Roger has his distinctive sound, there is no way he is a better player/arranger than Phil or Peart. |
| QueenMercury46 19.11.2007 01:40 |
Omg rogr is lyk soo cute so i pick him lolz! |
| QueenTaylor 19.11.2007 15:12 |
<font color="sky blue">QueenMercury46 wrote: Omg rogr is lyk soo cute so i pick him lolz!lol wow...yeah that's not why I think he's the best...if that comment was meant for me lol. if not...then ok. |
| Micrówave 19.11.2007 17:00 |
I'd be interested to hear some drummers chime in here, because this seems to be an obvious answer. But in terms of "over the years", I would say that Roger has let it slip in recent years. Phil still is the man when it comes to time signatures, song-crafting, etc. Plus, he is clearly more pocket than Roger. Roger always pushes, which isn't a bad thing. In fact, for Queen, that was very much needed. |
| mike hunt 20.11.2007 01:42 |
roger is a very good drummer, but phil still has the edge. Neil Pert on the other hand blows roger talyor out of the water, it's not even close. |
| Knute 20.11.2007 01:59 |
Roger Meadows Tailor wrote: Phil Collins isnt so much a drummer,more a jazz/rock percussionist and so therefore differs slightly from Roger.Thats why Phil plays all those peculiar time signatures like 9/8 and 16/9 for example....and he's left handed too.16/9? LMAO! Here's a hint next time you want to sound impressive: The second number in a time signature must always be an even number. As far as the question? Phil Collins without a doubt. He's quite an extraordinary drummer. Listen to the last album they did with Peter Gabriel; The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway. It's chock full of tasty drumming. He plays stuff that Roger could never really pull off frankly. Like playing very musical and fluid in odd time signatures. |
| ANAGRAMER 20.11.2007 16:14 |
Roger may not have the chops of Phil Collins / Neil Peart but he is most certainly a better MUSICIAN than Neil Peart (the original one-trick pony!) |
| Cwazy little thing 20.11.2007 16:37 |
Love em both, but Phil gets the prize. I think I ranted long enough in the other thread though about this, hehe. |
| Lester Burnham 20.11.2007 18:39 |
ANAGRAMER wrote: Roger may not have the chops of Phil Collins / Neil Peart but he is most certainly a better MUSICIAN than Neil Peart (the original one-trick pony!)You do know that Neil Peart has written almost every song on Rush's albums between 1974 and 2007, right? I really don't think that's much of a one-trick pony... |
| QueenTaylor 20.11.2007 20:11 |
I look at it this way, and I know I'm going to probably get a lot of critisim for it, but I think Roger really has a natural talent for the drums. Now I know a lot of people are going to say, "No, he worked his way up to the drums and he played guitar." Well, whatever the case may be, he still has amazing talent. I mean...I know that people are into Tommy Lee from Motley Crue and stuff, but let's be real here, he's not that great of a drummer. I mean if you look at him, all he really does is pound down like a complete animal, compared to Roger who has a natural, effortless talent that allows him to go across the drums nicely and get a great sound. I don't know...that's my opinion. I don't see what everyone else does, but I'd definitely place him in front of Tommy any day. As for Phil Collins, yes he's an excellent drummer, but Roger has always caught my attention with his drumming style. The guy definitely has talent so for all of you that say..so and so blows him out of the water, c'mon give the guy his props. He plays the shit out of those drums. Watch Live at the Rainbow...Milton Keynes...Live in Montreal...Wembley. He's amazing. |
| The Real Wizard 21.11.2007 00:37 |
Lester Burnham wrote:I've decided I'll let the kids have their fun. It's actually entertaining, watching people who aren't musicians rate people on their musical ability. That's like me rating a carpenter's woodworking skills, a judge's knowledge of the law, or a proctologist's use of a dildo.ANAGRAMER wrote: Roger may not have the chops of Phil Collins / Neil Peart but he is most certainly a better MUSICIAN than Neil Peart (the original one-trick pony!)You do know that Neil Peart has written almost every song on Rush's albums between 1974 and 2007, right? I really don't think that's much of a one-trick pony... |
| Deacon Fan 21.11.2007 00:53 |
To me, Phil just has some trademark styles which get very old, and he makes noticeable mistakes. To be fair, perhaps Phil's mistakes are more obvious since he's often singing at the time. But I just find Roger to have much more variety in his work. I cringe everytime I hear Phil's trademark roll thingy now.. you know the one.. link Yeah I'd have to go with Roger ;) |
| mike hunt 21.11.2007 01:56 |
<font color="black">Rogers Queen? wrote: I look at it this way, and I know I'm going to probably get a lot of critisim for it, but I think Roger really has a natural talent for the drums. Now I know a lot of people are going to say, "No, he worked his way up to the drums and he played guitar." Well, whatever the case may be, he still has amazing talent. I mean...I know that people are into Tommy Lee from Motley Crue and stuff, but let's be real here, he's not that great of a drummer. I mean if you look at him, all he really does is pound down like a complete animal, compared to Roger who has a natural, effortless talent that allows him to go across the drums nicely and get a great sound. I don't know...that's my opinion. I don't see what everyone else does, but I'd definitely place him in front of Tommy any day. As for Phil Collins, yes he's an excellent drummer, but Roger has always caught my attention with his drumming style. The guy definitely has talent so for all of you that say..so and so blows him out of the water, c'mon give the guy his props. He plays the shit out of those drums. Watch Live at the Rainbow...Milton Keynes...Live in Montreal...Wembley. He's amazing.we are giving roger his props, the man was/is a fantastic drummer and kicks tommy lee's ass in every way. phil collins and especially neil pert is another story. |
| mike hunt 21.11.2007 02:06 |
ANAGRAMER wrote: Roger may not have the chops of Phil Collins / Neil Peart but he is most certainly a better MUSICIAN than Neil Peart (the original one-trick pony!)One trick pony?...that's pretty funny. No one I know mentions roger as one of the all time best drummers, but pert is always mentioned with the greats. I love roger, but their are better drummers. IMO queen were slightly better than rush for their songwriting ability. |
| i-Fred 21.11.2007 02:19 |
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:just because i cant cook doesnt mean i cant tell what food tastes better, so.. doesnt make a difference what these people are.. its what they like.Lester Burnham wrote:I've decided I'll let the kids have their fun. It's actually entertaining, watching people who aren't musicians rate people on their musical ability. That's like me rating a carpenter's woodworking skills, a judge's knowledge of the law, or a proctologist's use of a dildo.ANAGRAMER wrote: Roger may not have the chops of Phil Collins / Neil Peart but he is most certainly a better MUSICIAN than Neil Peart (the original one-trick pony!)You do know that Neil Peart has written almost every song on Rush's albums between 1974 and 2007, right? I really don't think that's much of a one-trick pony... Kids see things differently.. they want fun and excitment with stlye... Bring forth Roger Taylor |
| The Real Wizard 21.11.2007 10:37 |
shemp wrote: just because i cant cook doesnt mean i cant tell what food tastes betterBut if you can't cook, do you know which foods require more or less effort to prepare? Indeed, whether or not you like the food is a matter of taste, but knowing how much effort the preparation requires is not an opinion, but rather a matter of understanding. Same goes for music. |
| QueenTaylor 21.11.2007 12:57 |
mike hunt wrote:Well uh..I don't know about Neil Pert but uh, if you want to talk good drummers-Buddy Rich but I don't know if I would compare Roger and Neil...but that's ok, I'm not going to disrespect your opinion.<font color="black">Rogers Queen? wrote: I look at it this way, and I know I'm going to probably get a lot of critisim for it, but I think Roger really has a natural talent for the drums. Now I know a lot of people are going to say, "No, he worked his way up to the drums and he played guitar." Well, whatever the case may be, he still has amazing talent. I mean...I know that people are into Tommy Lee from Motley Crue and stuff, but let's be real here, he's not that great of a drummer. I mean if you look at him, all he really does is pound down like a complete animal, compared to Roger who has a natural, effortless talent that allows him to go across the drums nicely and get a great sound. I don't know...that's my opinion. I don't see what everyone else does, but I'd definitely place him in front of Tommy any day. As for Phil Collins, yes he's an excellent drummer, but Roger has always caught my attention with his drumming style. The guy definitely has talent so for all of you that say..so and so blows him out of the water, c'mon give the guy his props. He plays the shit out of those drums. Watch Live at the Rainbow...Milton Keynes...Live in Montreal...Wembley. He's amazing.we are giving roger his props, the man was/is a fantastic drummer and kicks tommy lee's ass in every way. phil collins and especially neil pert is another story. |
| teleman 21.11.2007 16:36 |
Peter Criss is the best drummer of all time according to late 70s reader polls taken in Circus Magazine. ROFL Roger Taylor is a good drummer but listening to Gabriel era Genesis I'll give the nod to Phil Collins. Not to mention the studio work Collins has done with other musicians over the years. The cliche drum fill was from an era when he was mailing it in. Doesn't mean I have any less respect for the talent of Roger Taylor because he did manage to display a versatility and flair beyond most of his peers including the poll winning Peter Criss LOL. These debates are really pointless. If you like Roger Taylor, Gene Krupa, Phil Collins, Peter Criss or whomever else then enjoy it for what it is. |
| ok.computer 21.11.2007 16:59 |
teleman wrote: If you like Roger Taylor, Gene Krupa, Phil Collins, Peter Criss or whomever else then enjoy it for what it is.Oh thank fuck. Some common sense in the otherwise continually soul-less "general discussion" threads. |
| i-Fred 21.11.2007 17:26 |
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:Well yes I do see yout point with that aspect, there is so much that goes on behind the scenes that doesnt get noticed.shemp wrote: just because i cant cook doesnt mean i cant tell what food tastes betterBut if you can't cook, do you know which foods require more or less effort to prepare? Indeed, whether or not you like the food is a matter of taste, but knowing how much effort the preparation requires is not an opinion, but rather a matter of understanding. Same goes for music. But are we mearly talking about Drum solo's? Or ones ablilty to create/play music to such a level or versatility that Queen had. I mean Live aid was pefection i terms of craft being duplicated live. Just what aspect of being a better drummer are we looking at? |
| The Real Wizard 21.11.2007 18:13 |
shemp wrote: But are we mearly talking about Drum solo's? Or ones ablilty to create/play music to such a level or versatility that Queen had. I mean Live aid was pefection i terms of craft being duplicated live. Just what aspect of being a better drummer are we looking at?That's exactly the thing... there are so many "best musician" polls and discussion over who is best, but rarely is there actually any criteria. Generally, people pick the drummers from their favourite bands and call it a day, because they don't know the difference. But why should they? Not everyone is required to be a musician, but at least they should be wise enough to admit that they shouldn't be judging drummers on various abilities which they really don't know much about. That would be like asking me who the best author of all time is. I'd only be able to judge based on the limited number of books I've read. I'd like to pick John Grisham, but I'm sure there are better authors whom I don't know a thing about. In conclusion, I wouldn't pick anyone. But... people just like to hear their own voices, so they open their mouths. C'est la vie. |
| Mustapha_Ibrahim 21.11.2007 18:38 |
Well, obviously putting this question on a Queen forum will always lead to many narrow minded replies... Actually, IMO this one is fairly easy.. Phil Collins without a doubt. I would not only mention the early period of Genesis (Musical Box and In The Cage come to mind), but also some solo material and some late 70's-early 80's Genesis material, such as: Home By The Sea, the Duke album and, of course... In The Air Tonight ;-) |
| cmsdrums 24.11.2007 10:31 |
ANAGRAMER wrote: In terms of technical ability, there are guys out there with all the chops eg Neil Peart, but, when it comes to arranging drums appropriately to each indiviual song, Roger is perhaps unequalled; maintains a distinictive style while giving each song its appropriate measure. Is is the same guy playing AOBTD and The Prophets Song - try askin Phil C, Neil P to do that!Well put - I absolutely agree!!! |
| loicborap 24.11.2007 16:11 |
To be honest i really like roger's style,phil collins is very good,but i also like keith mon & john bonham. |
| Henry V 26.11.2007 17:33 |
Roger's time feel and style is quite hard to emulate. Believe it or not playing a basic beat consistantly is quite hard for some drummers. And Roger has certainly got chops, maybe not up there with the likes of Buddy or Louie Bellson, but he can sure play some fast single strokes. Anyway, Phil's a twat. He's a Tory |
| SIDEWALK 27.11.2007 17:41 |
Got to be Roger! But for my fav drummer it's got to be Mr John Blackwell |
| ANAGRAMER 01.12.2007 03:33 |
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:Yes I agree with you! Subdivisions, as in most of Rush's output, has an EXCELLENT drum track, I have no quibble over NP's technical ability whatsoever, believe me! The point I'm trying to make is that, NP has a distinctive style over EVERY recoding he makes, while guys like Roger actually ADAPT their style to match the songANAGRAMER wrote: when it comes to arranging drums appropriately to each indiviual song...Subdivisions and Firth Of Fifth have better drum arrangements than any Queen song. As much I love Queen for being a band that arranges great songs overall, and as much as Roger has his distinctive sound, there is no way he is a better player/arranger than Phil or Peart. |
| Ha-nah! 01.12.2007 16:38 |
hmmm these people aren't an option but I think Keith Moon or John Bonham are the greatest.=) Roggie is beyond excellent as well...but that is just my preferance.=) |
| The Real Wizard 01.12.2007 23:40 |
ANAGRAMER wrote: Yes I agree with you! Subdivisions, as in most of Rush's output, has an EXCELLENT drum track, I have no quibble over NP's technical ability whatsoever, believe me! The point I'm trying to make is that, NP has a distinctive style over EVERY recoding he makes, while guys like Roger actually ADAPT their style to match the songHmm, you definitely make a good point! |
| mike hunt 02.12.2007 00:31 |
Roger does adapt to every song, but remember, roger declined as a drummer in the 80's while pert was still amazing. Roger's weak drum work made a lot of queen songs in the 80's sound dated. |
| Sebastian 02.12.2007 05:54 |
mike hunt wrote: Roger does adapt to every song, but remember, roger declined as a drummer in the 80's while pert was still amazing. Roger's weak drum work made a lot of queen songs in the 80's sound dated.That's because a lot of Queen songs in the 80's have drum-machines, synth-generated drums, drum-loops and/or e-drums instead of Roger's live acoustic playing. |
| Oscar J 17.03.2017 21:21 |
Bump. Phil Collins by far. He has every bit of Bonham's bass drum speed, groove and explosiveness, with the chops, rudiments and time signatures of a jazz drummer. |
| GonnaUseMyPrisoners 17.03.2017 22:28 |
I love both dearly, I appreciate and admire both for their chops, and yet they're so different - Let's face it, isn't a drummer's output in a band DEEPLY colored by their bandmates' style? I have a large, thick stack of Genesis albums and a slightly thicker stack of Queen albums, but really, can't we just admit it's not their "ability" or "greatness" we're discussing, rather the STYLE of their drumming, and how we perceive that it fit their respective bands? Roger absolutely and illustriously fit Queen's sound, and I'm sure Freddie, Brian, and even John had ann influence on Rog', and he was no doubt better for it. Collins was a master of prog drumming who also colored and defined Genesis' sound in an impeccable fashion, then moved on to brilliant solo songwriting, in an entirely different style. How does one pick between an apple and an orange? We might ask "Which was a more valuable band member?" They both doubled on vocals, leads even, so it's again, a square tie... but OMG when Freddie was in trouble, the greatest vocalist of all time by many a poll, voice cracking from exhaustion, who backed him up? Well... old RT was a massive secret weapon if you ask me. And Rog' is exciting and playful in a way that maybe Collins chooses not to be. But drummer? Pshaw... Come on, how can you ...? |
| Biggus Dickus 18.03.2017 00:13 |
Roger was a good drummer but Collins was something else. Just listen to his drumming from 6:00 onwards. Really interesting drum track with loads of little nuances and accents. link |
| Oscar J 18.03.2017 09:15 |
^ Live At The Rainbow has fantastic drum sound. |
| The Real Wizard 18.03.2017 13:20 |
Oscar J wrote: Bump. Phil Collins by far. He has every bit of Bonham's bass drum speed, groove and explosiveness, with the chops, rudiments and time signatures of a jazz drummer.Indeed, Collins is far more schooled, but Bonham did swing and groove better than most. Fool In The Rain - there are very few drummers who can replicate the feel of that. Achilles Last Stand, Kashmir, When The Levee Breaks. All so marvellous. And I just can't picture a guy like Collins capturing the groove of The Song Remains The Same, or even Ramble On. And likewise, there's not a chance Bonham could tackle The Cinema Show, Los Endos, or anything on a Brand X album. At the end of the day, everyone brings something different to the table. It's a round table, for celebration and inclusion, not a contest. |
| Oscar J 18.03.2017 14:05 |
^ I agree Bonhams groove is good, but didn't Ginger Baker once say Bonham swings like a sack of potatoes? Not that Baker ever says anything good about anyone, but I've never considered Bonham in the league of, say, Mitch in that departement. Phil Collins did a great Fool In The Rain/Purdie Shuffle in "The Colony Of Slippermen" on The Lamb, which of course far predates both Fool In The Rain and Rosanna. Not to take anything away from the FITR shuffle - it's sweet, as is his work in the Latin breakdown. I agree it's not a contest. I still love Roger Taylor, limited as he is in comparison. But unlike Bonham or Moon, Collins so rarely gets the credit he deserves as a drummer though he was such a mastermind behind the kit. His early studio stuff is endlessly fascinating to listen to, not to mention the live recordings! |
| Togg 20.03.2017 07:48 |
Phil Collins was possibly better technically, he was taught to play where as I believe Roger mainly taught himself (someone correct me on that if you have information) however Roger is a rare breed who treated it as the song was king not his playing, he kept things simple and out of the way a lot of times when others might have decided a fill would be best. Roger's style is unique and actually very hard to copy, Phil collins is actually much easier to copy in terms of style. The early days of both were amazing, and Rogers power in his wrists was simply stunning, just listen to those first 3 albums and watch those tracks live, amazing. particularly the solo's with cowbells added in the middle, wonderful stuff. But in terms of schooled technical playing Phil maybe had the edge back in the day |
| AlbaNo1 20.03.2017 17:47 |
Another thread where members of Queen are compared unfavourably to prog type musicians. Queen have plenty technique ,more than most successful rock bands but also have the ability to be simple and serve the song when needed. The perfect balance and Roger fits into that . |
| Vocal harmony 20.03.2017 20:02 |
Henry V wrote: . . . Believe it or not playing a basic beat consistantly is quite hard for some drummers. . . . . . Anyway, Phil's a twat. He's a TorySo you're saying that the most basic thing a drummer does, keep a beat for the Bass player to lock into, is hard for some? You mean this who can't play?! And of course you offer some idiotic political reasoning which I guess you believe shows Roger to be a better drummer. Roger is great, in many ways, but not as good as Collins |
| Oscar J 21.03.2017 08:41 |
^ The post is ten years old, haha. In my opinion, Roger would have been able to serve the song better had he known some music theory. He had a kind of limited palette in terms of fills and beats, which IMO is especially evident live where he can often be heard doing the exact same fill three or four times in a song. |