QueenZone discussion #1008477

inmydefence wrote: I have the UTMOST respect for the late legend Freddie, but to say "Noone have as much power as freddie live or in studio, NOONE Bono, robert plant or whoever you like , you name them , they are all averge singers compared. Freddie is on the top of the mountain They are in the gutter somewhere" (this little gem is courtesy of one of the treasure moment guys) ....Is just plain untrue! i mean, he was awesome in the studio... but live... often average! often he shouted or growled so much his voice cracked in a highly comical fashion!

inmydefence wrote: to "freddie" the whole point of this thread was for fun! not to say freddie was bad because his voice cracked! did you even READ the opening post? it would appear not.... you said "Nobody is perfect, remember that and we won't have to waste our time talking about Freddie's voice cracking." which is exactly the point i made... subtley directed to the treasure moment guys! Ive been singing for five years, and in my current job i often have to sing queen material for three hours at a time. Its a very tall order for anyone to remain "Perfect" for that duration of time singing that material. from your list (i sincerely hope that was for atheists benefit) Steve Perry is the stand out vocalist for me. studio and live... he's normally flawless! i've hundreds of bootlegs from journey and have seldom heard a bad performance! One Question: Because talking about freddies sometimes comical vocal fatigue may not interest you, doesn't mean its not of interest to other people, so its just a waste of time in YOUR opinion. all aspects of Freddies performance interest me... good or bad.

inmydefence wrote: "Oh, in regards to your question (which had no question mark by the way) the answer would have to be good. Yes, in my opinion discussing Freddie's off nights and all of his flaws are pointless because nobody is perfect because every major artist has screwed up at least once whether or not you're willing to admit it." Fine, thats you opinion. the question didnt have question marks because it wasnt actually a question in the end... forgot to delete "one question" part. I must proof read next time! Nobodies perfect eh. "However, I really don't mind it if you all want to talk amongst yourselves about it. Afterall, it wouldn't be the first time. Who am I to tell you that you can't?" yes.. who are you to tell us what is a waste of time? exactly my thoughts after your first post hence my reply. i dont think i actually shit on you though... even in a virtual sense! and i dont see why i should have to defend my chosen of subject because you dont like it. You strike me as quite a grumpy person?

inmydefence wrote: Slow. right. i was trying to be polite, because i personally dont like to judge people that i've only had a brief message board conversation with. yet you seem so happy to judge me and call me slow. that tells me a lot about you. I've nothing more to say to you! Bye

inmydefence wrote: I have the UTMOST respect for the late legend Freddie, but to say "Noone have as much power as freddie live or in studio, NOONE Bono, robert plant or whoever you like , you name them , they are all averge singers compared. Freddie is on the top of the mountain They are in the gutter somewhere" (this little gem is courtesy of one of the treasure moment guys) ....Is just plain untrue! i mean, he was awesome in the studio... but live... often average! often he shouted or growled so much his voice cracked in a highly comical fashion! check this out link at 3:28 "overgrown Schoolboy!" i cracked up laughin when i heard this... i like it when the legends falter... its makes em seem more human! if anyone else knows of any youtube vocal crack moments... please share... remember, im not doin this to put freddie down...i just find it quite amusing!

inmydefence wrote: Hahaha! what a hilarious response! My god... i believe I've just Discovered a stepford fan!

<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote:

inmydefence wrote: I have the UTMOST respect for the late legend Freddie, but to say "Noone have as much power as freddie live or in studio, NOONE Bono, robert plant or whoever you like , you name them , they are all averge singers compared. Freddie is on the top of the mountain They are in the gutter somewhere" (this little gem is courtesy of one of the treasure moment guys) ....Is just plain untrue! i mean, he was awesome in the studio... but live... often average! often he shouted or growled so much his voice cracked in a highly comical fashion!

Just to point this out: Bono is a thoroughly mediocre singer. Plant is considerably better than him (and, on his good days, better than Freddie by a long run).

Valensian Sky Surveillance wrote:

<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote:

inmydefence wrote: I have the UTMOST respect for the late legend Freddie, but to say "Noone have as much power as freddie live or in studio, NOONE Bono, robert plant or whoever you like , you name them , they are all averge singers compared. Freddie is on the top of the mountain They are in the gutter somewhere" (this little gem is courtesy of one of the treasure moment guys) ....Is just plain untrue! i mean, he was awesome in the studio... but live... often average! often he shouted or growled so much his voice cracked in a highly comical fashion!

Just to point this out: Bono is a thoroughly mediocre singer. Plant is considerably better than him (and, on his good days, better than Freddie by a long run).

Why?

<font color=FF0033 face=symbol>Freddie wrote: It's rock and roll, nobody is supposed to be perfect. In fact, Freddie Mercury was not perfect. Hell, I could think of other vocalists who are just as amazing if not more amazing than the late great Freddie Mercury. Perhaps the following might qualify? Billy Joel Elton John George Michael Steve Perry Paul Rodgers Dennis DeYoung Of course it's all a matter of personal preference, but for anybody to say Freddie Mercury is the greatest vocalist and everybody compared to him are "crap" is just obnoxiously wrong. That's not to say Freddie Mercury isn't a great singer either, he just wasn't "perfect." Nobody is perfect, remember that and we won't have to waste our time talking about Freddie's voice cracking.

Mr.Jingles wrote: Everybody's voice cracks, and that wasn't the only time Freddie's voice's had a mishap while singing live. What looks really bad is when your voice cracks and you still put it on a record. Just listen to U2's 'Lemon'.

artemismoon wrote: We had a discussion not to long ago about Freddie's voice, about whether he was a baritone or a tenor. Fred had tremendous power, but his range was that of a baritone so when he sang live and tried hitting "those" notes he would often crack. But as a front man, he is way better than Plant or any other front man in Rock History.

artemismoon wrote: We had a discussion not to long ago about Freddie's voice, about whether he was a baritone or a tenor. Fred had tremendous power, but his range was that of a baritone so when he sang live and tried hitting "those" notes he would often crack. But as a front man, he is way better than Plant or any other front man in Rock History.

inmydefence wrote: haha... come on valensia... your starting to sound like the guy from your signature. Surely as a musician you're aware that most of the best rock vocalists are baritones that make use of falsetto and head voice to sing in a tenor range..... plant, sting, jimi jameson (survivor), lou gramm (Foreigner) bruce dickinson (iron maiden), rob halford (judas priest) to name just a few. Freddie of course was one of these. you can tell just from listening to them! if you know what you're looking for. the ignorant on here never cease to amazing me that they think... just because someone sang in a high range that they're a tenor. tenore = high baritone = low WRONG! Nessun Dorma is a Tenor song... and i can sing it. doesn't make me a tenor! fact is, i couldn't sing it with same same control and feeling as a tenor, because it isnt my "natural" range. but i could make it sound bloody impressive to the untrained ear! but to a opera singer (or anyone who knows anything about Singing), it would be clear that im not a tenor!

Valensian Sky Surveillance wrote: ...and when he sings low it sounds like shit.

Valensian Sky Surveillance wrote: Freddie's low notes SUCKED.

saltnvinegar wrote:

Valensian Sky Surveillance wrote: Freddie's low notes SUCKED.

I'm quite enjoying reading both sides of the arguments guys, inmydefence-thanks for those A3 examples you gave. Valensian, would you mind clarifying which of the low notes that you consider 'sucked'?

inmydefence wrote: now YOU'RE talking crap. with baritones you can have a bass voice, and you can have a light baritone voice which obviously doesn't go as low as a bass. the ranges vary greatly, but the difference between tenor and a baritone with a descent range is a very clear difference. unless you're Valensian Sky Surveillance.

Valensian Sky Surveillance wrote: I must say that you're wrong. Way TOO wrong. And so are the other fuckers that say: "A BARITONE THAT ADJUSTS TO SING AS A TENOR." That makes no sense.

inmydefence wrote: Beautifulsoup, according to your profile you are a singing coach! what are you thought on the freddie tenor/baritone discussion?

inmydefence wrote: ooops! for some reason my browser didnt show your latest post! thanks.

inmydefence wrote: Yep, thats the one i mean!

innuendo1990 wrote stuff again:

<font color=660066>Pomponias wrote: Freddie's voice cracks. My voice cracks. Everybody's voice cracks. -CRACK IS WHACK-

inmydefence wrote: oh my god. lyricialassasin... I see that this fucker likes bringing this brand of bullshit to multiple thread's.....I can only hope and pray that he tries this stuff on with somebody out in public and get's beat within an inch of his worthless life....Now as for the post, I find it very funny that people are always right there to nitpick and point out errors in people. In this case its Freddie and his voice breaking. The man had over 700 concerts in his career and we are talking about his voice cracking......LoL....Just because you make it to the point of becoming a great band and selling millions of albums and selling out what ever venue you play doesn't mean that Perfection goes hand in hand with any of those accomplishments. Any great artist has his/her flaws. So you keep on watchin those concerts/listening to the music in such meticulous detail that you only can find the flaws and not actually enjoy the music/performance.......I'll stick to the latter.....Peace You just TOTALLY miss the fucking point dont you! this whole thread was just a light heart look at the normal HUMAN factor of freddies performance... when his voice is tired it breaks in an often amusing way! It was mainly started to point out that Freddie was, contrary to what the treasure moment boys would have you believe, not a "god" he was human. it was not so much criticism as a funny way to point out the truth. And for that you wish someone would beat me to an inch of my life?! you´re either a complete fucking moron, or you dont bother reading the first post when you enter a thread. and then after leaving that unessecarily volatile responce, you write "peace" at the end!? what a JOKE.

inmydefence wrote: You just TOTALLY miss the fucking point dont you! this whole thread was just a light heart look at the normal HUMAN factor of freddies performance...

Valensian Sky Surveillance wrote: Yes, a baritone. Brian was a Bass and Roger a soprano.

lyricalassasin_77 wrote: I don't need to read every post. I know that you are a complete waste of fuckin flesh. You sound like one big pussy for real. I talk how I talk. You dont' like it then skip over what the fuck I type you idiot. You sit there and ponder the most meaningless stuff and then wonder why you get attacked. You best grow a thicker skin fool. And as for your punk ass Valencian callin me a bitch its a damn shame your not from around here cuz it would almost be worthwhile to see just how much you would run off at the mouth in person...but that's just wishful thinking cuz your I've seen your type before you wannabe musician...I would use PEACE again but since I'm responding to 2 bitch's I will end it with....LATER CUNTS

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:

Valensian Sky Surveillance wrote: Yes, a baritone. Brian was a Bass and Roger a soprano.

Brian was a bass? His range was about as big as Freddie's... just listen to Resurrection. He is (or was?) a baritone who stretches to be a tenor, just like Freddie did.

inmydefence wrote: well, its a little of all of those things. the thing that made freddie special to me as a singer is his willingness to push the limits of his voice. and as a baritone those higher note really are a challenge. for example, steve perry is a tenor. give him a queen song and he would just play with it. probably sing some parts even higher than freddie had first recorded them! but the likelyhood is they would sound less impressive or powerful, because would be so effortless for him. freddies full voice topped out at about an Asharp3 wihtout using head voice or falsetto and it often sounded quite harsh! powerful... but harsh!(its VERY rare to hear freddie attempting a higher note than that live). where as not only could a tenor sing that note with EASY but he could sing it softly, with a lot of colour to the tone. hope that helps. whether its of any relevance to rock music... maybe not. but it gets my goat when people say things like "freddie is a tenor!" when they have no idea what they're on about!

inmydefence wrote: oh dear!! did someone burn your teddybear when you were little!?? ooh i bet you'd like to hurt that nasty person! Or are you this agressive because you were picked on at school?!

inmydefence wrote: thats quite rich coming from someone who hasn't actually put a good argument forward. someone who enters a discussion without even reading the opening post to find out what we're talking about, then starts spouting abuse calling me a waste of skin! that you hope i get beaten to an inch of my life!?? Your comments are a joke. this was the closest thing to a valid argument you have put forward "The man had over 700 concerts in his career and we are talking about his voice cracking......LoL....Just because you make it to the point of becoming a great band and selling millions of albums and selling out what ever venue you play doesn't mean that Perfection goes hand in hand with any of those accomplishments" If you read my first post then you would see thats the point i was making with this thread. the GOD freddie (a "PERFECT GOD GREATEST SINGER AND MUSICIAN THE WORLD WILL EVER SEE" according to "atheist" and "mercury singeroflife") is in fact not a god and is only human. the invitation to post videos of his voice cracking was a means of emphasising that fact. So you're actually throwing abuse at me for agreeing with you, which you have to admit is kind of retarded. and as for this comment: "So you keep on watchin those concerts/listening to the music in such meticulous detail that you only can find the flaws and not actually enjoy the music/performance" You're jumping to conclusions here as you know nothing about me. and you cant say you learnt this about me from this thread because you havent even read the most relevant part! I love nothing more than to close my eyes while listening to music and soak up every careful detail... music to me can be the most relaxing thing in the world(Eva Cassidy pink floyd, or the most uplifting thing in the world (Queen! though sometimes its also relaxing Survivor, foreigner, journey! love it! and loads more). nothing can effect my mood or feeling of well being the way that music can. so thanks for your response to the thread, however irrelivant your abusive rant was.

inmydefence wrote: well, its a little of all of those things. the thing that made freddie special to me as a singer is his willingness to push the limits of his voice. and as a baritone those higher note really are a challenge. for example, steve perry is a tenor. give him a queen song and he would just play with it. probably sing some parts even higher than freddie had first recorded them! but the likelyhood is they would sound less impressive or powerful, because would be so effortless for him. freddies full voice topped out at about an Asharp3 wihtout using head voice or falsetto and it often sounded quite harsh! powerful... but harsh!(its VERY rare to hear freddie attempting a higher note than that live). where as not only could a tenor sing that note with EASY but he could sing it softly, with a lot of colour to the tone. hope that helps. whether its of any relevance to rock music... maybe not. but it gets my goat when people say things like "freddie is a tenor!" when they have no idea what they're on about!

inmydefence wrote: yes well done. you're not the only one who can quote from andres site. i have spoken with him over msn about head voice and when its starts and stops. his knowledge of head voice (which he has obviously been taught by somebody at some stage) is different to what i have been taught by my voice coach. but then he has been trained in contemporary singing style, and i have been trained in opera. with my opera training i was taught that you have a natural singing range. ie a range that i can sing comfortably with the right breathing technique and it will sound nice and controlled. obvioulsy it has limits. my top opera note is a Asharp3. if i wish to sing higher than that i need to use head voice in which i need really need to concentrate on my forming the correct shape at the back of my mouth to lift the soft pallet to enable me to produce the tone with out harming my voice. this is how i have been taught which may very well be different to what you have been taught. from wikipedia (although some say wiki is not reliable as anyone can contribute, they also qoute andres site, so it cant be THAT unreliable) :According to Clippinger, often explanations for the physiological mechanisms behind the head voice alter from voice teacher to voice teacher. This is because, according to Clippinger: "In discussing the head voice it is the purpose to avoid as much as possible the mechanical construction of the instrument" i know a lot of people who think falsetto is head voice! so thanks for the response, but i dont think its at all fair of you to say i dont know what im talking about. im mearly talking about head voice as it is relevent to me and how it was taught to me.

inmydefence wrote: its not absurd at all. its my personal taste. i think the fact that freddie really pushes his voice to the limits gives Queen songs alot of emotion. take who wants to live forever for example. the part oh ooo oh oh! when love must die!!! would sound less powerful than if it was sung in the beautiful effortless way that steve perry sings. only pointed out to emphasise the difference between freddie singing queen songs and a tenor singing queen songs.

inmydefence wrote: hold on a minute. there's one thing you need to remember, freddie was a ROCK vocalist. he had no voice training. he didnt take very good care of his voice, he smoked and drank alcohol during performance and wasnt averse to shouting his nuts off when his voice was tired! and you're saying he could use the correct "passagio" technique in 86 for who wants to live forever at a time when his voice was at its lowest quality in my humble opinion. it suited the rocky numbers but certainly wasnt a voice that could have pulled off DTSH. remember DTSH was recording five years later when he probably given up smoking due to the deterioration in his health. it certainly sound like it when you listen to innuendo. I agree he may have learned this "melting passagio" later in his life, maybe monserrate taught him? freddie admitted he had little disciplin with his voice hence rejecting the role of PHANTOM when it was offered to him. freddie wasnt a genius when its came to vocal technique and a doubt very much until his work on barcelona that he had any idea what a melting passagio was! a rock vocalist with no voice training!? come off it. whether it fitted the song or not a dont believe for a second he could have sung WWTLF in 86 the way he sang DTSH in 91!

inmydefence wrote: all of the songs you mention are from the seventies and not the mid 80's when is the earer im comparing. its widely agreed his voice got lower during this period maybe because of his smoking and gettin older. when he often used light falsetto in the seventies songs the light falsetto in his mid range doesnt compare to the vocal performance in DTSH in my opinion is a more controlled blend of high head voice and flasetto. Innuendo is another example of how free his voice was in that higher register in the nineties though im aware this isnt melting passagio. I dont think his voice was ever that good before. "til the END of time!" and "on with the show!" are remarkable well performed and sound almost easy for him. but i guess we could argue about this till the cows come home! I think it comes down to a matter of perception and clearly mine is different to yours!

inmydefence wrote: Sahin_Gu wrote: "all of those songs i mention are from 70's , because Queen songs which are suitable to use this technique were written in this period , Queen changed it's music structure in 80's , the way Freddie's vocal style evoluted in to more powerful-rough and lower singing form." exactly and when your full voice is lower you really have to push to get those higher notes... and when you do this it becomes almost impossible to take your falsetto low enough to blend it with full voice. part of the reason why freddie hardly ever used falsetto in under pressure and play the game live. i also experienced this form of vocal fatigue in the past myself. If the full voice is lower then the passagio must be lower, and that in itself makes it completely different from his voice in the 90's. for example DTSH in the 80s would be almost completely falsetto rather than a beautiful blend of head voice and falsetto.