| tomchristie22 22.10.2015 09:10 |
[List edited 27/10/15] This has been discussed plenty in the past, but hasn't come up for a while, and since there's been some contention since the last time they were listed off (particularly on who wrote The Hitman, as I understand it), it seems like a good idea to centralise the details again. I'll be updating the main post as people contribute, because I'm not the most knowledgeable in this area. Stone Cold Crazy - Freddie (arr. Freddie, Brian & Roger) Soul Brother - Freddie Under Pressure - Freddie (music), David Bowie (lyrics) One Vision - Brian (music), Freddie, & Roger (lyrics) Party - Freddie's initial idea, then collab. by Freddie, John, & Brian. Khashoggi's Ship - Freddie (music & lyrics), Roger (lyrics), Brian (lyrics), & John (lyrics) The Miracle - Freddie (music & lyrics), John (music, lyrics), Roger (lyrics), Brian (lyrics). I Want it All - Brian The Invisible Man - Roger Breakthru - Roger, with Freddie's 'A new life is born' intro Rain Must Fall - Freddie (lyrics), John (music) Scandal - Brian My Baby Does Me - Freddie (music & lyrics), John (music) Was it All Worth It? - Mainly Freddie, with lyrics from all four Innuendo - Freddie (music & lyrics), Brian (music), and Roger (lyrics) I'm Going Slightly Mad - Freddie (music & lyrics), Roger (lyrics), possibly Peter Straker (lyrics, but the extent of his contribution is disputed) Headlong - Brian I Can't Live With You - Brian Don't Try So Hard - Freddie Ride the Wild Wind - Roger All God's People - Freddie These Are the Days of Our Lives - Roger Delilah - Freddie The Hitman - Freddie (music) and Brian (music & lyrics) Bijou - Freddie & Brian The Show Must Go On - John & Roger (main chord progression), Brian (music, bulk of lyrics), Freddie (small lyrical contribution) Lost Opportunity - Brian It's a Beautiful Day - Freddie Let Me Live - Freddie (music & his lyrics). Completed by Brian & Roger for Made in Heaven (middle eight music, their lyrics) My Life Has Been Saved - John You Don't Fool Me - Freddie (music, lyrics), John (music) A Winter's Tale - Freddie |
| cmsdrums 22.10.2015 09:25 |
Should Soul Brother and Lost Opportunity be on that list too? |
| ITSM 22.10.2015 09:30 |
I just read about The Miracle on Wikipedia, and according to "them": "Rain Must Fall" is a collaboration between Deacon (music) and Mercury (lyrics) (as confirmed by producer David Richards and, more recently, May on his website). Taylor recorded a lot of Latin percussion but most of that was edited out in order to have more space for vocal harmonies, guitars and keyboards, the latter shared between Mercury and Deacon in this piece. "My Baby Does Me" is another collaboration of Mercury and Deacon. Both of them had the idea of a simpler track in order to ease off the album. In a Radio 1 interview in 1989, both Mercury and Deacon claim each other constructed the bassline. |
| Bike It 80 22.10.2015 09:34 |
Regarding Under Pressure, according to Queenpedia.com : "Thus, Under Pressure was born, based on an idea by Roger called 'People On Streets' which, prior to Bowie's arrival, then became 'Feel Like'." Funny story about the bassline, according to Wikipedia : "There has been some confusion about who created the song's bassline. John Deacon said (in Japanese magazine Musiclife in 1982, and in the previously mentioned French magazine) that David Bowie had created it. In more recent interviews, Brian May and Roger Taylor have credited the bass riff to Deacon. Bowie, on his website, said that the bassline was already written before he became involved. Roger Taylor, in an interview for the BBC documentary Queen: the Days of Our Lives, stated that Deacon had indeed created the bassline, stating that all through the sessions in the studio he had been playing the riff over and over; he also claims that when the band returned from dinner Deacon had, amusingly, forgotten the riff, but fortunately Taylor was still able to remember it." |
| Bike It 80 22.10.2015 09:35 |
(the Queenpedia quote is missing some words, I think :P ) |
| Bike It 80 22.10.2015 09:37 |
cmsdrums wrote: Should Soul Brother and Lost Opportunity be on that list too?Soul Brother was written by Freddie and I assume that Lost Opportunity was written by Brian. Apparently, Soul Brother was credited to Queen because of all the references to other Queen song titles and lyrics. |
| Sebastian 22.10.2015 10:15 |
tomchristie22 wrote: Stone Cold Crazy - FreddieOriginally, yes, but the Queen version was reworked by the three founding members (John hadn't even met them at that point). That's why it got the joint credit. tomchristie22 wrote: Under Pressure - ?There's never been, to my knowledge, any confirmation that 'Feel Like' is Roger's, it seems to be just a feeble attempt by Roger-ists to re-attribute the song to him. Based on what we know so far, the song is chiefly Freddie's (musically) and David's (lyrically), but since it arose from a jam session then credits were split between all of them. tomchristie22 wrote: One Vision - Roger?That's a tricky one since there's a lot going on. Musically, it's chiefly Brian's (with Freddie and Roger contributing to the arrangement). Lyrically, it was started off by Roger but then finished off by Freddie. tomchristie22 wrote: Party - Freddie Khashoggi's Ship - FreddieThe original ideas, yeah, but lyrics were a collaboration (Roger had input on Khashoggi's Ship but not on Party). Some sections (choruses, middle-eights, etc.) could've arisen later on and been offered by someone other than Fred. tomchristie22 wrote: The Miracle - Freddie (& John?)Freddie was the chief author although John was there to contribute some germinal ideas and the lyrics were reportedly written by all four (though the published manuscripts only feature Freddie's and Roger's handwriting). tomchristie22 wrote: Rain Must Fall - ? My Baby Does Me - ?Both of them are chiefly written by Freddie and chiefly composed and arranged by John, though Freddie had the original musical idea for 'My Baby Does Me'. tomchristie22 wrote: Was it All Worth It? - FreddieBrian did have a lot to do with the arrangement, but that doesn't really count as being a co-author (GnR completely re-arranged 'Knocking on Heaven's Door', added guitar solos, etc., but the song is still Bob Dylan's). Lyrically, it evolved from an individual statement ('what is there left for *me* to do in this life') to a collective one ('*we* bought a drum kit...') and it's been reported that the writing process mirrored that narrative, with Freddie coming up with the original idea but then letting the others contribute rhymes and lines. The 'we loved you madly' bit (which is similar to a line on 'Seaside Rendezvous') was reportedly suggested by Roger. tomchristie22 wrote: Innuendo - Freddie (music) and Roger (lyrics)It's more like Freddie & Brian (music) and Freddie & Roger (lyrics). tomchristie22 wrote: I'm Going Slightly Mad - FreddieYes, but Roger contributed some lyrics, including some memorable parts. Fred still directed the process, so he was the chief author. tomchristie22 wrote: The Hitman - Brian (?)The song itself was started off by Freddie. Then Brian changed the key to make it playable on guitar and made a demo with some lyrics he'd come up with. Eventually, the rest of the band contributed to tidying it up and John re-arranged the order. So it was basically a kind of foster child whose biological father (Fred) couldn't raise it so it went to one of its uncles (Bri) and was eventually educated by the collective Queen family. tomchristie22 wrote: Bijou - FreddieAnd Brian. Brian was more involved with the vocal parts and Freddie with the guitar parts ... that's right - you don't need to be a guitarist to compose great guitar lines! tomchristie22 wrote: The Show Must Go On - Verse progression by Roger and JohnIt's not just the verse. The intro, chorus and all the guitar solos have the same progression. The only section of the song not to be based on that sequence is the middle-eight, which was Brian's. tomchristie22 wrote: some lyrics by Freddie.Actually, Freddie just wrote a line and a half, Brian did the rest. tomchristie22 wrote: Let Me Live - ?It was based on a discarded idea which was chiefly Fred's, and then Brian and Roger added lyrics and the middle-eight. tomchristie22 wrote: You Don't Fool Me - ? (this one will be messy to assign a composer to, I imagine)Not really. Music was Fred & John, lyrics were Fred's. I know there's the whole heroic narrative about the late great David Richards having rescued it when all they had consisted of some bare bones and it was quite tricky to expand them into a full-length song, which was great and all but is not the same as writing or co-writing a track. If a doctor saves my life, that doesn't make him my dad. |
| dysan 22.10.2015 11:22 |
It's worth noting that Peter Straker contributed quite heavily to the IGSM lyrics. |
| Sebastian 22.10.2015 12:26 |
dysan wrote: It's worth noting that Peter Straker contributed quite heavily to the IGSM lyrics.Not necessarily. He was there with Freddie listening to his ideas and maybe offering some input as well but that doesn't mean he co-wrote the song. Plenty of authors run their ideas by their friends and relatives when they're in working stages, it's not the first or last time that happened. |
| Mr.QueenFan 22.10.2015 16:36 |
Sebastian wrote:But according to one of Freddie's bios, i remember that there was a session in Freddie's home where some of Freddie's friends were having a good time helping Freddie with the words to IGSM. From Dysan reply i assume Peter Straker was there - i don't remember the specifics, but if we're talking about contributions to the song, even if they were not credit in the sleeves (or royalties) they still deserve a mention by Queen fans.dysan wrote: It's worth noting that Peter Straker contributed quite heavily to the IGSM lyrics.Not necessarily. He was there with Freddie listening to his ideas and maybe offering some input as well but that doesn't mean he co-wrote the song. Plenty of authors run their ideas by their friends and relatives when they're in working stages, it's not the first or last time that happened. In this specific case, other people outside the band contributed to the lyrics. If they were not credited was because of some private gentleman's agreement between them. |
| AlbaNo1 22.10.2015 16:57 |
Actually lyrics wise Queen would have been better off with some outside collaboration like the above scenario. Lyrics are generally the weakest part of the song, usually just passable and no more with the occasional highlight. |
| Mr.QueenFan 22.10.2015 17:35 |
Sebastian wrote:And David Richards contributed with some piano to it. I don't know if he was already playing over chords or if he'd come up with something of his own, but David Richards felt later in life that he deserved some credit in UP too.tomchristie22 wrote: Under Pressure - ?There's never been, to my knowledge, any confirmation that 'Feel Like' is Roger's, it seems to be just a feeble attempt by Roger-ists to re-attribute the song to him. Based on what we know so far, the song is chiefly Freddie's (musically) and David's (lyrically), but since it arose from a jam session then credits were split between all of them. . Sebastian wrote:This is the opposite of what i read some time ago. I believe it was David Richards or Brian himself who said that the guitar part was played in one(?) take and it was sort of improvised. And Brian credits Jeff Becks's "Where were you" as the inspiration for Bijou. I'm not saying Freddie doesn't know what tapping (the guitar technique) is, and he's very capable of coming up with great guitar lines, but everything about this song screams Brian as the author of the guitar melodies. Now if you're talking about the chords over which Brian plays, then that's another story.tomchristie22 wrote: Bijou - FreddieAnd Brian. Brian was more involved with the vocal parts and Freddie with the guitar parts ... that's right - you don't need to be a guitarist to compose great guitar lines! . Sebastian wrote:But this view just belitles a LOT what Brian did to this song. Of course one could say that the chord sequence is the same throughout the song, so therefore everything is Roger and John's except for the middle eight. But that is far from the truth! What Brian did with that chord sequence is extraordinary! He said that he felt that they had something very special in hands, and he worked his butt of to present what can be one of the best songs in rock - ever! From my point of view it feature the best vocal performance in rock! How can you discard the guitar solos that easily? You don't appreciate Brian or something? The care with which Brian constructed each guitar line and solo deserve more credit that what you gave him. Brian took that chord sequence and gave it a meaning that the other two could never give. He even coached Freddie's vocals, so i can assume that the vocals melody are Brian's too. Simply put, without Brian we wouldn't have "TSMGO". With or without his middle eight.tomchristie22 wrote: The Show Must Go On - Verse progression by Roger and JohnIt's not just the verse. The intro, chorus and all the guitar solos have the same progression. The only section of the song not to be based on that sequence is the middle-eight, which was Brian's. . Sebastian wrote:Are you referring to the 1984 version with Rod Stewart or the MIH version that came out in 1995?tomchristie22 wrote: Let Me Live - ?It was based on a discarded idea which was chiefly Fred's, and then Brian and Roger added lyrics and the middle-eight. . Sebastian wrote:And Brian wrote that brilliant guitar solo. In Brian's words, he improvised it, and was happy that the tape was running. If this is true, and i don't have a reason to believe otherwise, it is the best improvised solo i've ever heard caught on tape. Perfection!tomchristie22 wrote: You Don't Fool Me - ? (this one will be messy to assign a composer to, I imagine)Not really. Music was Fred & John, lyrics were Fred's. I know there's the whole heroic narrative about the late great David Richards having rescued it when all they had consisted of some bare bones and it was quite tricky to expand them into a full-length song, which was great and all but is not the same as writing or co-writing a track. If a doctor saves my life, that doesn't make him my dad. |
| Mr.QueenFan 22.10.2015 17:54 |
tomchristie22 wrote: These Are the Days of Our Lives - Roger .And Freddie wrote the musical bit after the second verse over wich Brian plays his solo. Roger said he was stuck with it and Freddie helped him out. Another thing worth mention is that Brian wrote the guitar solo to "A Winter's tale". He was in London at the time and the melody just came to his mind. I know such things don't get credited because the chord structure is already in place by it's author, but for me a melody is as important as the chord structure created by the author. I believe that this system incorporated in Rock only serves the purpose of deffending the not-so-good rock composers, who come out with a used-to-death chord progression, and then call some excellent session musician, and asked him/her to play over that chord progression without credits or royalties. They only get payed for the session! This is very unfair, because the better musician and the person really creating something unique - the melody - is the one not being credited. Having said this, of course Queen are not in this cathegory, but i still feel that Brian deserves being credited for his solo on "Bohemian Rhapsody", or any other solo he had created. "Heaven for everyone" is another great example of Brian's genius. |
| tomchristie22 22.10.2015 18:21 |
Also interesting is that Wikipedia says that it was David Richard's idea to have the second verse of Show Must Go On be in a higher key.
Mr.QueenFan wrote: Having said this, of course Queen are not in this cathegory, but i still feel that Brian deserves being credited for his solo on "Bohemian Rhapsody", or any other solo he had created. "Heaven for everyone" is another great example of Brian's genius.Freddie wrote the guitar solo for Bo Rhap, actually. |
| Oscar J 22.10.2015 18:43 |
No he didn't. He wrote the riff in the rock part, and the runs towards the end of it though. |
| Sebastian 22.10.2015 22:18 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote: But according to one of Freddie's bios, i remember that there was a session in Freddie's home where some of Freddie's friends were having a good time helping Freddie with the words to IGSM.Yeah but 'helping with the words' is not the same as 'co-writing the words.' Plenty of authors run ideas by their friends and relatives all the time. If they were to credit every single person who told one of them 'hey, why don't you say "we're gonna rock it" instead of "we wanna rock it"?' then liner notes would be bloody encyclopaedias. Mr.QueenFan wrote: And David Richards contributed with some piano to it.That doesn't count. Axl Rose played piano on Guns 'n' Roses' cover of 'Knocking on Heaven's Door', but the song is still Bob Dylan's. Mr.QueenFan wrote: David Richards felt later in life that he deserved some credit in UP too.Yeah, for having *played* there, not for having *co-written* it. Two completely different verbs. Mr.QueenFan wrote: This is the opposite of what i read some time ago. I believe it was David Richards or Brian himself who said that the guitar part was played in one(?) take and it was sort of improvised.Brian confirmed on his website that Fred came up with the opening guitar line and sang it to him. He also confirmed on Guitar & Bass mag '06 that Fred had a lot to do with the guitar parts and Brian had a lot to do with the vocal parts. It was not improvised. Mr.QueenFan wrote: And Brian credits Jeff Becks's "Where were you" as the inspiration for Bijou.He also credits Aretha Franklin as the inspiration for 'Somebody to Love' and that doesn't mean he wrote that one either. He simply knew where the inspiration came from, that's not by any means the same as writing it (Roger said 'Now I'm Here' was inspired by the Stones, does it mean he wrote it?). In 'Bijou''s case, it was inspired, *on them both*, by Jeff Beck (yeah, Freddie also knew who Jeff Beck was). Mr.QueenFan wrote: everything about this song screams Brian as the author of the guitar melodies.No, it doesn't. Playing something is not the same as having composed it. There are many wonderful guitar lines that Brian wrote and played, and many wonderful guitar lines that Brian played but didn't write. Mr.QueenFan wrote: But this view just belitles a LOT what Brian did to this song.No, it doesn't, since he was still the chief lyricist, the main (perhaps only) arranger, the main (perhaps only) producer and he wrote the melody and developed the song from the sequence. But the sequence is not just the 'verse' sequence, it's the intro + verse + chorus + solos sequence. That doesn't belittle anyone. Mr.QueenFan wrote: Of course one could say that the chord sequence is the same throughout the song, so therefore everything is Roger and John's except for the middle eight.Er, no, I didn't say that. The sequence is the harmonic basis for everything on the song bar the middle-eight, yes, but that is NOT the same as saying that John and Roger wrote everything. They wrote the sequence, which is one of the main components for the song. They did not write the melody or the lyrics, both of which were Brian's. Mr.QueenFan wrote: What Brian did with that chord sequence is extraordinary!Yes, nobody's denied that. Mr.QueenFan wrote: How can you discard the guitar solos that easily?At absolutely categorically no point in any of my posts did I discard the guitar solos. I just said that the sequence is not just the 'verse' sequence, and that's true. Mr.QueenFan wrote: The care with which Brian constructed each guitar line and solo deserve more credit that what you gave him.I'm not taking any credit away from him. Please learn how to read. Mr.QueenFan wrote: Simply put, without Brian we wouldn't have "TSMGO".That's true. Without John or Roger, we wouldn't have had that song either, so it's worth co-crediting all three for it, even though Brian definitely worked much more on it than they did. The song is chiefly Brian's, but the song wouldn't have existed without any one of the three of them. |
| cmsdrums 23.10.2015 00:51 |
Seb - you seem to have a very rigid view of compositional credits; I agree that suggesting a word here or there is not 'co-writing' a song, but you also seem to want to aggressively omit large and concerted chunks of contributions from band members to songs purely because they weren't the ones to come up with the original idea or song structure. |
| BETA215 23.10.2015 04:00 |
Sebastian wrote: |
| Sebastian 23.10.2015 05:27 |
cmsdrums wrote: Seb - you seem to have a very rigid view of compositional creditsWell, that's subjective. What might be 'too rigid' for someone, might be 'too loose' for someone else, and 'just right' for Goldilocks. cmsdrums wrote: you also seem to want to aggressively omit large and concerted chunks of contributions from band members to songs purely because they weren't the ones to come up with the original idea or song structure.Er ... no. I do consider Brian to be the chief author of both 'Show Must Go On' and 'The Hitman' despite not having been the one who came up with the original idea for either. It's about semantics indeed: * Songwriter: The person who pens the lyrics. * Composer: The person behind the harmony and melody. * Author: A combination of the two above. * Arranger: Who decides what the bass will do, and how backing vocals will go, etc. * Producer: The person in charge of the ... well, product :D Now, in many cases, we've got more than one person in each category. For 'Show Must Go On', Brian's the songwriter, Brian/John/Roger are the composers and, as a result, Brian's the chief/main/principal author. He also happens to be the main (perhaps sole) arranger and the main (perhaps sole) producer, but those go separately from what authorship actually involves. Freddie's contribution to that song, which is reduced to a line and a half of lyrics, is not enough (IMO) to consider him a co-author. Let's see Radio Ga Ga: Roger penned the lyrics (yeah, sure, he was inspired by something his toddler said, and at some point someone from the record company sent some corrections, but the lyrics are still his) and he also created both the vocal melody and the chords that go behind said vocal melody. Freddie took the song over and arranged it (i.e. he decided the order, the structure, probably what some of the instruments would do or where they'd go and may have had some input on the vocal harmonies as well) but Fred's not a co-author since everything he did was directed by the chord progressions Roger had put (same way Guns 'n' Roses adding solos and epic intros, etc., to 'Knocking on Heaven's Door' doesn't change the fact the song is Bob Dylan's, since everything they did was directed by a variation of the chord progression he'd used). A non-Queen example: 'Yesterday.' George Martin (co-)arranged it (i.e. he decided what each violin would play and what the viola would do and what the cello would do and where and how), he also conducted it and he also produced it. All those elements are absolutely essential for the song to have been the phenomenon it was (and still is). But George Martin was not an author or co-author of the song. The author is Paul McCartney, since chords, lyrics and melody were all his. That's not being rigid (IMO), that's being clear. BETA215 wrote: Hey, calm down a bit.I am calm. There's no need to get livid in order to type the words 'learn how to read.' And I stand by them, by the way. BETA215 wrote: which only leads to more responses, which ends in (forum) battlesNot necessarily. It can also lead to the person in question learning how to read, in which case literacy wins, and that's a huge plus. So I'm willing to take the risk. BETA215 wrote: Control what you say, please.I do control what I say, and part of that control was deciding I would write the words 'please learn how to read' since it was blatantly obvious the person missed the whole point of what I was conveying. |
| Costa86 23.10.2015 05:53 |
BETA215 wrote:Sebastian wrote: [...] Please learn how to read.[...]/QUOTE] Hey, calm down a bit. There's no need to say that. I've seen that in lots of your comments you say this kind of words, which only leads to more responses, which ends in (forum) battles. Control what you say, please. I agree with BETA. There's a little something known as "tact". Knowing your stuff and being articulate and factual does not absolve you from being tactful in your communication. Things can be said/written in many different ways, yet have the same meaning. It's about the way you put forward your arguments just as much as it is about the point you are making. You give off a certain antagonism sometimes. |
| Oscar J 23.10.2015 08:03 |
The content of Sebastians posts on here usually split about 50/50 between great research work and keyboard warfare - including schoolbook master suppression techniques like the one seen above, breaking down opponents arguments into small fragments so that they're out of context, and splitting hairs with unnecessary relativising - using pseudo intellectual classics such as "who defines unnecessary?", "black and white/grayscale/millions of colours". It's very telling how a fair percentage of the discussions Sebastian enters lead to people either feeling insulted or questioning his way of debating. |
| Mr.QueenFan 23.10.2015 10:29 |
@Sebastian,
first of all Sebastian, i think you are a very arrogant person. It's in the way you talk to people on this board. The piano thread comes to mind!
But it's not about me per se, because you don't intimidate me, at all! But i see that you use your condescendent tone towards others as a form of intimidation. Many of your discussion techniques might be useful between schoolars while you guys jerk off knolwedge to each other, but that doesn't impress me, or intimidate me, because simply put you don't have the brains to discuss with me any subject. You know why? Because you already know everything!
You have the mentality of an ignorante person. I like to learn, and i like to be provern wrong, and even though i only like to talk about what i know, i can understand that sometimes even my memory can play a trick on me.
The difference between you and me and pretty much many others on this forum that you like to belittle is that it didn't took us 30 years to realize that John Deacon played on "Who wants to live forever". And i'm not counting the fact that when the Queen multitracks were leaked you were proved wrong in so many assumptions that it's not even fun!
That's why i dont understand your level of arrogance, and your condescending tone towards others here. If more people don't want to argue with you is because:
a) they don't care;
b) English is not their primary language, so they struggle to keep up with your misdirections and not-so-very-good-examples for you to make a point, and win the argument.
Now back on topic.
The original poster is asking about other people's contributions in Queen songs, he didn't asked for other people's contributions to Queen songs according to Sebastian.
So, if Peter Straker or any other friend gave words to IGSM, it deserves to be mentioned in this topic, for the Queen fans who are reading this, and don't have the time or patiente to read every article and bio on Freddie and Queen for the last 25 years. Things that i've read, and you too, and many others. So, if this is a place for knolwedge, Queen fans deserve to know who wrote the solo for Bohemian Rhapsody, even if you don't agree to call Brian a co-author of the song.
Having said this:
Sebastian wrote:This is beyond the topic, and it's not for you to decide, and it's not Freddie's decision either. If you read again my reply - and i'm not going to be rude asking you to learn how to read, even if in the end you'll realize that you need it more than me! - i said that they did some gentelman's agreement. Freddie knew better than anyone that you just cannot ask for people's input on his song and then not credit them. He could get suited by Peter Straker. And since you like to give examples - and bad examples i may add - maybe you'd like to read the story behind "O bla di O bla da" by Paul McCartney.Mr.QueenFan wrote: But according to one of Freddie's bios, i remember that there was a session in Freddie's home where some of Freddie's friends were having a good time helping Freddie with the words to IGSM.Yeah but 'helping with the words' is not the same as 'co-writing the words.' Plenty of authors run ideas by their friends and relatives all the time. If they were to credit every single person who told one of them 'hey, why don't you say "we're gonna rock it" instead of "we wanna rock it"?' then liner notes would be bloody encyclopaedias. . Sebastian wrote:Again, you completely missed what i said. I'm not saying that he wrote it - read again my original reply - but Queen fans have the right to know what happened and take their own conclusions - not your conclusions. I didn't want to be more specific in this issue as a sign of respect to what David Richards was going through. Some people even suggested that it was his medication that made him write what he did. On this matter i only say, that being David a man who knew music business inside out, if he felt that he should have been taken care of with money for his input in UP, then i suppose he felt he deserved a credit on the song. And people don't ask to be credited in songs because they played in it. They ask if they feel they have contributed with something music wise. And since they cannot agree with whom composed the bass riff, i'm not going to put aside the fact that David Richards could very well be the composer of the piano fills. But of course, according to your definition that's not enough. Well, according to my definition, it deserves credit, because the piano in UP takes to song to another lever. And your example of GnR KOHD is not a good example, because that song is a cover and there's no way in the world Bob Dylan was going to lose royalties to other artists for a song he wrote. "Under Pressure" was an original song and David did took part of the creative process in the studio.Mr.QueenFan wrote: And David Richards contributed with some piano to it.That doesn't count. Axl Rose played piano on Guns 'n' Roses' cover of 'Knocking on Heaven's Door', but the song is still Bob Dylan's.Mr.QueenFan wrote: David Richards felt later in life that he deserved some credit in UP too.Yeah, for having *played* there, not for having *co-written* it. Two completely different verbs. . Sebastian wrote:Maybe "improvised" was not the best therm to use in this example, because Brian already had an idea of the tune in his head. But i'm pretty sure i read an interview where David Richards described the process of recording this song in the studio as very fast - an hour or something like that. But because i cannot find the said article i will not discuss this further. But what you said on your original post isn't correct. You said: "Brian was more involved with the vocal parts and Freddie with the guitar parts". What Brian says on 2008 Guitar Player article is: link "I also like “Bijou” off Innuendo. I worked very closely with Freddie on that. He had a lot to do with the guitar line and I had a lot to do with the vocal lines." This doesn't mean Freddie was more involved with the guitar lines. Freddie had the initial idea that he sang to Brian and after that - according to Soapbox (February 04, 2004): "Each bit of the melody was alive in our heads and "hummed" before it was played - Freddie coming up with the beginning line which started us off on the trail." Meaning that Freddie was important because his initial idea was what started the rest of the melody.Mr.QueenFan wrote: This is the opposite of what i read some time ago. I believe it was David Richards or Brian himself who said that the guitar part was played in one(?) take and it was sort of improvised.Brian confirmed on his website that Fred came up with the opening guitar line and sang it to him. He also confirmed on Guitar & Bass mag '06 that Fred had a lot to do with the guitar parts and Brian had a lot to do with the vocal parts. It was not improvised. . Sebastian wrote:Is this the best you can come up with?Mr.QueenFan wrote: And Brian credits Jeff Becks's "Where were you" as the inspiration for Bijou.He also credits Aretha Franklin as the inspiration for 'Somebody to Love' and that doesn't mean he wrote that one either. He simply knew where the inspiration came from, that's not by any means the same as writing it (Roger said 'Now I'm Here' was inspired by the Stones, does it mean he wrote it?). In 'Bijou''s case, it was inspired, *on them both*, by Jeff Beck (yeah, Freddie also knew who Jeff Beck was). . You're not honest in your discussion because if you were honest, when you cited your source (2008 Guitar Mag) you should have included the n |
| Mr.QueenFan 23.10.2015 10:34 |
continuation of last reply:
Sebastian wrote:Is this the best you can come up with? You're not honest in your discussion because if you were honest, when you cited your source (2008 Guitar Mag) you should have included the next bit: link "That tune really shows your Jeff Beck influence. Oh yeah. I idolize Jeff. " Or, you could use Guitar World 1991, the interview Nuno Bettencourt did with Brian: link "BETTENCOURT: "Bijou." MAY: I have a debt there, and you know to whom - Jeff Beck. " As you can see, your reply about Aretha Franklin is completely irrelevant in this context. But i'll let other Queenzoners get their conclusions about this subject.Mr.QueenFan wrote: And Brian credits Jeff Becks's "Where were you" as the inspiration for Bijou.He also credits Aretha Franklin as the inspiration for 'Somebody to Love' and that doesn't mean he wrote that one either. He simply knew where the inspiration came from, that's not by any means the same as writing it (Roger said 'Now I'm Here' was inspired by the Stones, does it mean he wrote it?). In 'Bijou''s case, it was inspired, *on them both*, by Jeff Beck (yeah, Freddie also knew who Jeff Beck was). . Sebastian wrote:I can deduze that you never played electric guitar, otherwise you wouldn't say such thing even after what i said in my original post about tapping. Freddie could have hummed Brian the beginning of the melody (hence Brian stating he was important for the guitar parts), but unless you have other sources, and even if i agree with Brian that it was a team work, i still think Brian's input was bigger based on everything i said before.Mr.QueenFan wrote: everything about this song screams Brian as the author of the guitar melodies.No, it doesn't. Playing something is not the same as having composed it. There are many wonderful guitar lines that Brian wrote and played, and many wonderful guitar lines that Brian played but didn't write. . I will end the first half of my reply to you. |
| Sebastian 23.10.2015 12:22 |
Costa86 wrote: I agree with BETA.I don’t but that’s part of the beauty of it. The world would be ridiculously boring if we all agreed on everything. Costa86 wrote: There's a little something known as "tact". Knowing your stuff and being articulate and factual does not absolve you from being tactful in your communication.I fully agree there… but, I don’t believe in trying to please everyone and sugar-code everything. At the end of the day, if the person in question is already a good reader, then I’ll happily stand corrected; if not, I might contribute to them further developing those skills (even if it’s just to shut me up), which I’m also happy with. Again, I’m willing to take the risk. Costa86 wrote: Things can be said/written in many different ways, yet have the same meaning. It's about the way you put forward your arguments just as much as it is about the point you are making. You give off a certain antagonism sometimes.At the end of the day, that’s not my problem. If I tell you ‘please learn how to read’ and you know you already know how to read, you can simply ignore the comment and that’s it. If it offends you, it might mean you somehow agree. It’d be completely ridiculous if someone told me ‘you’re really rubbish at football’ and I felt offended by that because it’s completely true. If someone told me ‘you’re rubbish at Sporlce,’ I’d simply laugh it off, because I know I’m not rubbish at that (well, it depends on which category). Oscar J wrote: The content of Sebastians posts on here usually split about 50/50 between great research work and keyboard warfareI wouldn’t call that ‘warfare.’ I’m not calling anyone names or issuing any sweeping insults to anyone’s ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation, political stance, etc. I’m not issuing any death threats to anyone or wishing anyone’s mother dies of cancer or anything like that… I simply asked a person to learn how to read. If they already know how to read, then that’s great, they can ignore my comment. Otherwise… well, I said it already. Oscar J wrote: It's very telling how a fair percentage of the discussions Sebastian enters lead to people either feeling insulted or questioning his way of debating.1. If someone feels insulted by a comment, it’s that person’s problem (with exceptions, obviously). 2. Feeling insulted doesn’t derail either side’s argument anyway. 3. Quoting Stephen Fry, if anyone’s offended, well … ‘so fucking what?’ Mr.QueenFan wrote: first of all Sebastian, i think you are a very arrogant personWell, I’m not. An arrogant person thinks they’re better than everyone else, and I don’t think that. Therefore, I’m not arrogant. I do defend my conclusions, but I’m happy to change my views when I’m proved wrong (which has happened many times) as well as I’m happy to stand by my views when they’re supported by evidence (which has also happened many times). Mr.QueenFan wrote: But it's not about me per se, because you don't intimidate me, at all!And you don’t have any reasons to feel intimidated anyway. So… I asked you to please learn to read, big deal! Fortunately, you’re being sensible enough not to let it affect you (and it shouldn’t, since I don’t know you at all and you don’t know me either, so there should be at least a thousand people whose opinion on your reading skills is way more valuable and accurate than mine). Mr.QueenFan wrote: But i see that you use your condescendent tone towards others as a form of intimidation.It’s not condescending and it’s not meant to intimidate anyone. Now, if anyone’s intimidated by that, it’s their choice. Mr.QueenFan wrote: that doesn't impress me, or intimidate meFortunately, my life doesn’t revolve around impressing or intimidating you. Mr.QueenFan wrote: You know why? Because you already know everything!No, I don’t. The amount of stuff I know is absolutely categorically ridiculously small compared to the amount of stuff I don’t know. Still, that doesn’t mean I (or anybody else for that matter) should refrain from expressing views or providing evidence. Mr.QueenFan wrote: You have the mentality of an ignorante person.I’d like to think I don’t, but I’ve got to evidence either way. So thanks for offering that comment anyway. Mr.QueenFan wrote: I like to learn, and i like to be provern wrong, and even though i only like to talk about what i know, i can understand that sometimes even my memory can play a trick on me.There we agree, as I like all those things as well and I also relate to memory being far from perfect. Mr.QueenFan wrote: The difference between you and me and pretty much many others on this forum that you like to belittle is that it didn't took us 30 years to realize that John Deacon played on "Who wants to live forever".Well, it didn’t take me 30 years either. From the moment I first heard the song (and incorrectly assumed there was no electric bass) to the moment it was pointed out to me that there was indeed some electric bass there (thanks to whoever it was!) the amount of time passed was probably 12 or 13 years, but not 30 for sure. Mr.QueenFan wrote: And i'm not counting the fact that when the Queen multitracks were leaked you were proved wrong in so many assumptions that it's not even fun!Really? Which ones? Mr.QueenFan wrote: That's why i dont understand your level of arrogance, and your condescending tone towards others here.I’ll explain it to you: there’s no arrogance and there’s no condescending tone. When I’ve been proved wrong (as in the cited WWTFL case), I happily conceded. An arrogant person wouldn’t do that. Mr.QueenFan wrote: If more people don't want to argue with you is because: a) they don't careWhich is great. So … why do you care? Mr.QueenFan wrote: b) English is not their primary language, so they struggle to keep up with your misdirections and not-so-very-good-examples for you to make a point, and win the argument.The point is, it’s not about winning arguments. When I’ve been proved right (e.g. when claiming ‘Bo Rhap’’s recording sessions began before the 24th of August 1975) and when I’ve been proved wrong (e.g. the aforementioned WWTLF bass), the results were the same: we got closer to the truth, unattainable as it ultimately might be. That’s where you ‘win’ or ‘lose’, not by establishing who was right or wrong. And that’s why I’m happy to change my stance if evidence convinces me about it. And that’s why I’m not at all arrogant. Mr.QueenFan wrote: So, if Peter Straker or any other friend gave words to IGSM, it deserves to be mentioned in this topicKey-word: *if* Mr.QueenFan wrote: Queen fans deserve to know who wrote the solo for Bohemian Rhapsody, even if you don't agree to call Brian a co-author of the song.Because he’s not. Writing a solo’s part of the arranging stage, not the songwriting one. Brian was a co-arranger of ‘Bo Rhap’, and a really great one, but he didn’t write or co-write the song and he’d be the first one to admit it (in fact, he’s admitted so, many times). Mr.QueenFan wrote: if in the end you'll realize that you need it more than me!Now: that’s condescending, and that’s arrogant (i.e. thinking of yourself as superior). Maybe that’s why you accuse me of being all that, then… |
| Sebastian 23.10.2015 12:23 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote: you like to give examples - and bad examples i may addI wouldn’t say they’re bad examples, although it’s obviously subjective whether I could’ve come up with better ones. But the ‘Yesterday’ one is quite clear: George Martin wrote parts for cello, viola and two violins, and he also conducted the string section, and he also produced the song, and all those things were really important, but he’s still not an author or co-author. Mr.QueenFan wrote: Again, you completely missed what i said. I'm not saying that he wrote it - read again my original reply - but Queen fans have the right to know what happened and take their own conclusions - not your conclusions.And not yours either… which again is far off the point. I’m not telling anyone they should just read my posts and believe them, that’d be ridiculous. I’m offering my views (e.g. that Straker is not a co-author) and anybody’s more than entitled to agree or disagree with them. Mr.QueenFan wrote: i suppose he felt he deserved a credit on the song.A credit for having played on it, not for having allegedly co-authored it. Mr.QueenFan wrote: And people don't ask to be credited in songs because they played in it.Of course they do! Not all people, of course, but there’s no physical law preventing them from doing so. Mr.QueenFan wrote: They ask if they feel they have contributed with something music wise.Yeah, and performing is part of contributing to the music, but it’s not the same as being authors or co-authors. Mr.QueenFan wrote: And since they cannot agree with whom composed the bass riff, i'm not going to put aside the fact that David Richards could very well be the composer of the piano fills.And if he was he would count as a co-arranger, not as a co-author. Mr.QueenFan wrote: But of course, according to your definition that's not enough. Well, according to my definition, it deserves credit, because the piano in UP takes to song to another lever.It does deserve credit, but not as co-author. Mr.QueenFan wrote: i read an interview where David Richards described the process of recording this song in the studio as very fast - an hour or something like that.Yeah but an hour is not the same as an improvised first take. Mr.QueenFan wrote: But what you said on your original post isn't correct. You said: "Brian was more involved with the vocal parts and Freddie with the guitar parts".I did say that and it’s not incorrect.} Mr.QueenFan wrote: "I also like “Bijou” off Innuendo. I worked very closely with Freddie on that. He had a lot to do with the guitar line and I had a lot to do with the vocal lines." This doesn't mean Freddie was more involved with the guitar lines.Well… yes, it does. Mr.QueenFan wrote: "That tune really shows your Jeff Beck influence. Oh yeah. I idolize Jeff. " “MAY: I have a debt there, and you know to whom - Jeff Beck. "Both quotes confirm a Jeff Beck influence on Brian, neither quote denies a Jeff Beck influence on Freddie. So yes, Brian could’ve been influenced/indebted to Jeff Beck and still not having been the main author of the guitar lines. Mr.QueenFan wrote: I can deduze that you never played electric guitarThat’s completely irrelevant to this discussion. Mr.QueenFan wrote: otherwise you wouldn't say such thingOf course I would, and I did. Mr.QueenFan wrote: Freddie could have hummed Brian the beginning of the melody (hence Brian stating he was important for the guitar parts), but unless you have other sources, and even if i agree with Brian that it was a team work, i still think Brian's input was bigger based on everything i said before.So we disagree about that one, fair enough. In my opinion, Brian’s comments point at Freddie being the chief (though not by any means sole) arranger of the guitar lines (which obviously doesn’t mean he could play them or that he directed every single iota of it). Brian did a magnificent work playing it and also co-arranging it (the whole thing seems to have been a collaboration through and through), but he was not the chief composer of the guitar parts. |
| Oscar J 23.10.2015 13:24 |
"If someone feels insulted by a comment, it’s that person’s problem (with exceptions, obviously)." If four different people at once point out that you come across offensive, one could argue that it's your problem as much as anyone else's. If it's over a controversial or political comment then sure, "so fucking what?". But if it's over an unnecessary comment you dropped or your general attitude towards other people and their opinions, you had better take peoples opinions to heart, or in the end you'll have nobody to discuss with. |
| Sebastian 23.10.2015 13:28 |
Oscar J wrote: "If someone feels insulted by a comment, it’s that person’s problem (with exceptions, obviously)." If four different people at once point out that you come across offensive, one could argue that it's your problem as much as anyone else's. If it's over a controversial or political comment then sure, "so fucking what?". But if it's over an unnecessary comment you dropped or your general attitude towards other people and their opinions, you had better take peoples opinions to heart, or in the end you'll have nobody to discuss with.Whoever feels offended by my comments can simply refrain from reading them, it's not that hard. It's not like we're locked here. |
| Oscar J 23.10.2015 14:22 |
So you basically agree with my last sentence: your unwillingness to drop the attitude will cause people to avoid discussing things with you. |
| Sebastian 23.10.2015 15:03 |
Er... no, I don't. I think, when you're outspoken, loads of people will be offended anyway. I don't mind, I'm not trying to please anybody (let alone everybody). I'm not offending anyone, issuing threats, etc., so there's no need to drop any attitude. If someone completely misunderstood a text and I asked them to learn how to read, it's their choice whether they agree or disagree with it. The world's not gonna end either way. |
| Oscar J 23.10.2015 16:05 |
I can assure you this and other threads would have been more constructive and less time consuming for everybody had you chosen your words a little more carefully. But then I'm starting to doubt that you had much interest in a constructive discussion in the first place. |
| Sebastian 23.10.2015 16:19 |
Oscar J wrote: I can assure you this and other threads would have been more constructive and less time consuming for everybody had you chosen your words a little more carefully.We'll never know... by the way, I'm not forcing anybody to read or reply, so if it's time consuming it's not my fault at all. Oscar J wrote: But then I'm starting to doubt that you had much interest in a constructive discussion in the first place.I do have an interest in a constructive discussion, and this has been one. Could it have been *more* constructive? Of course. But, then again, life's not black and white, and it's not a greyscale either. There are millions of colours, and not being able to see the FIR or the UV doesn't mean they don't exist. |
| Oscar J 23.10.2015 16:36 |
Oscar J wrote: [...] unnecessary relativising - using pseudo intellectual classics such as "who defines unnecessary?", "black and white/grayscale/millions of colours" [...]I rest my case. |
| Gregsynth 23.10.2015 16:52 |
So..... This thread is really getting me hard :P LOVE the fights! :D |
| Costa86 23.10.2015 17:12 |
^LOL Still think Seb has a bit of an attitude problem though. But, hey, today I learnt that that's MY (our actually) problem not his. I wonder how many people "our" has to consist in for it to become Seb's problem. |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 23.10.2015 17:25 |
Well, we know Sebastian answer, but I always learn from him musically.He knows about he writes. A lot of times I'm not agree with him, but I prefer to take the good side. I apreciatte have a person like him in this forum. |
| tomchristie22 23.10.2015 17:32 |
Oscar J wrote: No he didn't. He wrote the riff in the rock part, and the runs towards the end of it though.Oh. I wonder where I got the idea that Freddie wrote the solo then... Did it ever work that way, with Freddie writing a guitar solo and then giving it to Brian to arrange (add in bends, other guitar techniques)? |
| Costa86 23.10.2015 17:33 |
Apocalipsis_Darko wrote: Well, we know Sebastian answer, but I always learn from him musically.He knows about he writes. A lot of times I'm not agree with him, but I prefer to take the good side. I apreciatte have a person like him in this forum.He's definitely well-read and well-informed. That's not the point of argument here. It's his methods of delivering his immense knowledge, wisdom, intelligence and enlightenment which some take umbrage to. We marvel at his God-like ability to dissect and rebut - in a targetted fashion (usually by breaking everything someone else says into neat little sections), and using a variant of logic known as "Sebogic" (briefly, this school of logical thought teaches us that if we don't agree or we are offended, then that's our problem) - practically every negative observation made in his regard. |
| BETA215 23.10.2015 17:34 |
Oscar, I was going to reply, but I stopped a moment and realized that keeping posting would only lead to more shit. So, I sleep with my case (?). |
| Oscar J 23.10.2015 18:24 |
tomchristie22 wrote:No worries, it's easy to mix up. There has been quite a few interviews with Brian describing how he could hear the solo in his head long before it was time for him to record it. But then he'd also described how Freddie stabbed the rock riff out on the piano for him, and how he described exactly how he wanted those scale runs towards the end of the rock part.Oscar J wrote: No he didn't. He wrote the riff in the rock part, and the runs towards the end of it though.Oh. I wonder where I got the idea that Freddie wrote the solo then... Did it ever work that way, with Freddie writing a guitar solo and then giving it to Brian to arrange (add in bends, other guitar techniques)? I bet Freddie must have written guitar solos for Brian during their career, or at least provided him with parts, ideas or skeletons for the solos. Ogre Battle is interesting - it has been claimed that Freddie composed and learned that riff on the guitar. In a way I find that story credible, because It's kind of a tricky riff to play by Queen standards - certainly not very well suited to Brians love for hammer-ons and pull-offs and somewhat sluggish right hand. Queensongs.info claims that Great King Rat might have been written by Freddie on the guitar as well. |
| Mr.QueenFan 23.10.2015 18:49 |
OK, my second part to my reply to Sebastian. I read all the replies, and i'm not going to reply to it. It's pretty clear the level of your argumentation. I don't know "if" Peter Straker gave Fredie's words for IMSM, because as i said before i don't remember the specifics - who was there - on that get toghether. But someone did, and so my point still stands. It deserves to be mentioned here. As for the David Richards issue i think it's pretty clear for those who read my post what i wanted to say when i talked about David. And i don't wan't to talk about David anymore, because i know when he wrote that he was in pain. But i respect his view, and it deserved a mention on this topic too.
Before i go on, there is this:
Sebastian wrote: It's about semantics indeed: * Songwriter: The person who pens the lyrics. * Composer: The person behind the harmony and melody. * Author: A combination of the two above. * Arranger: Who decides what the bass will do, and how backing vocals will go, etc. * Producer: The person in charge of the ... well, product :D Now, in many cases, we've got more than one person in each category. For 'Show Must Go On', Brian's the songwriter, Brian/John/Roger are the composers and, as a result, Brian's the chief/main/principal author. He also happens to be the main (perhaps sole) arranger and the main (perhaps sole) producer, but those go separately from what authorship actually involves. Freddie's contribution to that song, which is reduced to a line and a half of lyrics, is not enough (IMO) to consider him a co-author. .How do you expect to have a serious discussion after this? I'm from Portugal, and you got me confused with your definitions, so i googled it. So, from the link Songwriter: One who writes lyrics or tunes, or both, for songs Composer:One that composes, especially a person who composes music. 1. (Music, other) a person who composes music ballad maker, songster, songwriter - a composer of words or music for popular songs Author: 4. An originator or creator; You're the only one hidding behing semantics and making things more dificult to understand than what they really are. This site has people from all around the world, and you know very well that when we use the therm composer, or author, or songwriter whe are refering to the same thing, not three different things. If i want to defirenciate the music from the lyrics i say that the lyricist is Brian and music is Freddie's. I don't know if your terminology is used in music schools, but in everyday life, people like me use those three definitions as being the same. And it's correct, judging by the dictionary. So, in your example above, Lyrics - Brian ; Music- Brian/John/Roger, or you can differenciate in the text - Lyricist is Brian; the musical composers/authors are Brian/John/Roger. It's easy to understand and is more accurate, because the songwriter is the guy who writes everything - at least that's the way it's more commonly used. |
| Mr.QueenFan 23.10.2015 18:49 |
continuation
Sebastian wrote:Of course it does! You keep saying that Roger and John are responsible for 90% of the song and that is not giving credit to Brian. If you want to be accurate you say that John and Roger are responsible for the chord sequence - let's say 10% - that is featured in 90% of the song. Brian was the guy who gave a direction to that chord sequence, and we don't know if Brian made some corrections for it to loop perfectly or not. But even if Brian didn't touch the chord sequence, he is the man responsible for the other 80% of the song where it was used. He gave it a meaning. Roger and John "only" created the loop - so to speak. Creatively speaking, they're only responsible for those 10% who then inspired Brian to create almost everything else.Mr.QueenFan wrote: But this view just belitles a LOT what Brian did to this song.No, it doesn't (...) . Sebastian wrote:Of course you did! Here:Mr.QueenFan wrote: Of course one could say that the chord sequence is the same throughout the song, so therefore everything is Roger and John's except for the middle eight.Er, no, I didn't say that. . Sebastian wrote:And i know you weren't talking about lyrics and the other stuff because i wasn't either.tomchristie22 wrote: The Show Must Go On - Verse progression by Roger and JohnIt's not just the verse. The intro, chorus and all the guitar solos have the same progression. The only section of the song not to be based on that sequence is the middle-eight, which was Brian's. . Sebastian wrote:You don't deny it, but you never say how great of a work Brian did. Your only concern is to say that 90% of the song is Roger and John's.Mr.QueenFan wrote: What Brian did with that chord sequence is extraordinary!Yes, nobody's denied that. . Sebastian wrote:Of course you did! Read your reply above. You don't have to say it upfront because you never do that! You hide behind your words and attitude. You offend, but you don't offend; You say, but you didn't say it. It's in every discussion you do. And in this thread is so evident that i'm not even point it out to other queenzoners, because judging for the replies they already figured it out themselves. You have an attitued towards Brian. It's very obvious, and not only on this thread. You like to imply that Brian and Deacon didn't get along, based on Deacon's vacations, but then you didn't say it. If Brian talks about his input in SSOR or "It's a hard live" he's whining; not to mention the influence of Paul Roger's on Freddie, here Brian is a liar and so is Roger because he stated the same thing. So yes, in your reply you discarded the guitar solos, because you focused your attention on what you thought was more important (i.e. Brian is only responsible for the middle eight).Mr.QueenFan wrote: How can you discard the guitar solos that easily?At absolutely categorically no point in any of my posts did I discard the guitar solos. . Sebastian wrote:I didn't say you are taking credit away from Brian. I said you didn't give enough credit to Brian. You learn how to read!Mr.QueenFan wrote: The care with which Brian constructed each guitar line and solo deserve more credit that what you gave him.I'm not taking any credit away from him. Please learn how to read. . I know it seems the same thing, but life's not black and white, and it's not a greyscale either. There are millions of colours, and not being able to see the FIR or the UV doesn't mean they don't exist. Think about it! And i'm not going to continue this conversation with you. I don't know if you're having a bad day but you're behaving like a 6 year old on this thread. I'm going to use my energy to add something meaningfull to this thread, and keep it positive because it is a nice thread. |
| Mr.QueenFan 23.10.2015 18:52 |
edit. sorry triple post. |
| Mr.QueenFan 23.10.2015 18:52 |
edit. sorry triple post |
| Sebastian 23.10.2015 22:02 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote: Of course it does! You keep saying that Roger and John are responsible for 90% of the songAt no point did I say they're responsible for 90% of the song. I said they're responsible for 90% of the chord progressions of the song... which is not the same thing. Again, please learn how to read. |
| Sebastian 23.10.2015 22:06 |
Costa86 wrote: I wonder how many people "our" has to consist in for it to become Seb's problem.If I had insisted on WWTF being bass-free despite the bass being clearly audible (which it was) and being pointed out to me (which it was), then it would be my problem. If someone told me that my ability to speak Swedish was rubbish (which would be absolutely spot on) and I took offence at that, then it would be my problem. If I kept thinking SHA was Brian-free (which it wasn't) despite having clearly been proved wrong (which I was), then it would be my problem. But suggesting someone should learn how to read and others taking offence at that ... no, that's not my problem. |
| matt z 23.10.2015 22:19 |
Ah. This thread reminds me of my drunk texts. Long winded, bombastic and better left to brevity. I get what everybody's sayin. I just felt I should get in the last word |
| matt z 23.10.2015 22:21 |
Zyxt. |
| tomchristie22 24.10.2015 02:38 |
Sebastian wrote: Actually, Freddie just wrote a line and a half, Brian did the rest.Which line and a half was Freddie's, out of interest? Is it one that's intact in the final song? |
| Sebastian 24.10.2015 14:40 |
'Empty spaces - what are we living for abandoned places, I guess we know.' Brian wrote 'the score' and then basically everything else. * Edited to correct a mistake I'd made. |
| Oscar J 24.10.2015 16:09 |
Sebastian wrote: 'Empty spaces - what are we living for abandoned spaces, I guess we know.'Er... no. Abandoned places. Please learn how to write. |
| Sebastian 24.10.2015 18:05 |
Oscar J wrote: Er... no. Abandoned places. Please learn how to write.Right :D Yeah, 'places' it is. Thanks! |
| Mr.QueenFan 24.10.2015 22:08 |
Sebastian wrote:I really don't understand the reason of this reply. If you read again what i said about this subject, and not just what you decided to quote, you would realize that all i was talking about was the song structure containing the sequence. I never mentioned in that reply the vocals, lyrics, melodies or arragements, and so i never took what you said out of context, because i'm aware that you know that Brian was responsible for almost everything else on that song. But here's again what i said:Mr.QueenFan wrote: Of course it does! You keep saying that Roger and John are responsible for 90% of the songAt no point did I say they're responsible for 90% of the song. I said they're responsible for 90% of the chord progressions of the song... which is not the same thing. Again, please learn how to read. Mr.QueenFan wrote: Of course it does! You keep saying that Roger and John are responsible for 90% of the song and that is not giving credit to Brian. If you want to be accurate you say that John and Roger are responsible for the chord sequence - let's say 10% - that is featured in 90% of the song. Brian was the guy who gave a direction to that chord sequence, and we don't know if Brian made some corrections for it to loop perfectly or not. But even if Brian didn't touch the chord sequence, he is the man responsible for the other 80% of the song where it was used. He gave it a meaning. Roger and John "only" created the loop - so to speak. Creatively speaking, they're only responsible for those 10% who then inspired Brian to create almost everything else .Just don't expect me to use the term "song structure" everytime i'm talking about this same subject on the same paragraph, when it's pretty obvious for those reading what i am talking about. As for your recurring advise of "learn how to read" - i'm not bitting it! A year or so ago i got into a fight with someone here that i later regreted. So, i've made a mental note not to go that route again. I'm here to have fun and learn somethings about Queen. You're not offending me, but you know what you're trying to do. It would be more honest of you to just own it, instead of writing long replies with theories about the difference of posts who offend people and those it's people's problems. For you to use your condescending tone and then deny it in a condescending way, it's pretty disrespectful - not for me - but for the person you're replying to and all Queenzoners reading your explanation. Maybe in your mind you think it's genius. If that's the case, stick to it! That is the tone of several of your discussions in this forum. But if several people tell you that you come across as disrespectul in several of your discussions on this board, maybe instead of saying that you're not here to please everybody, you should take a step back and re-read some of your discussions in other threads. As far as i'm concerned, this discussion with you it's over! The fact that i don't feel offended, doesn't mean i'm not aware you're being disrespectful to me, and i cannot continue a conversation with someone who doesn't respect me. I don't do that in real life, i'm not going to do that behind a computer. The only reason i replied was because people are reading, and they deserve to read the explanations for clarification. |
| dysan 25.10.2015 03:09 |
This escalated quickly. Just to clarify - I said 'contributed to' not 'co-wrote'. |
| Sebastian 25.10.2015 07:10 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote: You're not offending me, but you know what you're trying to do. It would be more honest of you to just own itI'm not trying to offend you. I don't care if you feel offended or not. I simply replied to what you wrote, and I'd gladly do it again. So yes, I *am* owning it. Mr.QueenFan wrote: But if several people tell you that you come across as disrespectul in several of your discussions on this board, maybe instead of saying that you're not here to please everybody, you should take a step back and re-read some of your discussions in other threads.By that logic, there have been several people who haven't told me that ... and there have been thousands of people saying the earth is flat. If I threatened someone or issued sweeping generalisations or insults about someone's ethnicity, religion (or lack thereof), height, weight, skin colour, etc., then I'd be indeed nasty and incredibly disrespectful. If, on the other hand, I say something like 'saying they wrote the sequence is not the same as saying they wrote the song' and someone thinks it's offensive, it's indeed their problem, not mine. Mr.QueenFan wrote: As far as i'm concerned, this discussion with you it's over!Yet you failed to menion all the allegedly 'many' assumptions I'd allegedly made and which had been allegedly proved wrong by the multitracks. I'm genuinely interested in that. Mr.QueenFan wrote: The fact that i don't feel offended, doesn't mean i'm not aware you're being disrespectful to me, and i cannot continue a conversation with someone who doesn't respect me.Well, no, I'm not being disrespectful. You feel disrespected (which is not the same thing), but I fully agree that you shouldn't continue a conversation with me (or anybody else for that matter) if you believe I'm not respecting you. I'd suggest you took it a step further and simply refrained from reading, let alone replying to, anything I write. Mr.QueenFan wrote: The only reason i replied was because people are reading, and they deserve to read the explanations for clarification.Yeah, the usual 'I'm doing this for the people' superhero talk. Good for you! |
| Sebastian 25.10.2015 07:12 |
dysan wrote: This escalated quickly. Just to clarify - I said 'contributed to' not 'co-wrote'.That's true and it's a very good point. However, there's no evidence to suggest Straker 'contributed quite heavily' to it. There's a third-party recollection claiming he was there. But there's quite a leap from 'he was there' to 'he contributed quite heavily'. |
| BETA215 25.10.2015 08:45 |
-_- |
| dysan 25.10.2015 12:29 |
Yeah, I'm out of this thread. |
| Mr.QueenFan 25.10.2015 21:13 |
Sebastian wrote:In a way i did it for selfish reasons, because it gave me great pleasure to deconstruct your replies back to nothing, but i wanted others to see how to handle your manipulative texts. To the point when you had to missquote me so you could throw the line "learn to read". That's the only thing you could do! Here's just one more thing:Mr.QueenFan wrote: The only reason i replied was because people are reading, and they deserve to read the explanations for clarification.Yeah, the usual 'I'm doing this for the people' superhero talk. Good for you! Sebastian wrote: If, on the other hand, I say something like 'saying they wrote the sequence is not the same as saying they wrote the song' and someone thinks it's offensive, it's indeed their problem, not mine .Why did i wrote back, after saying i wouldn't? Because if you're going to quote me or express my feelings, at least do it right! Worst than trying to offend a person is to lie about what that person said. I couldn't care less about what you think of the sequence of TSMGO. Of course, i cared enough to present my view on the matter and proved to you that Roger and John aren't responsible for 90% of the song structure, even if they're responsible for the sequence. Because Brian was the one who created the structure of the song, based on a sequence by Roger and John. But you can read back my replies! And we don't need to agree on this. For you to turn it around and say that people felt offended by this only shows your strategy in your replies. The fact that i said i wouldn't reply to you doesn't give you the right to lie about me in your next reply. So, if you were honest, this is what you would have said: "If, on the other hand, I say something like 'Learn how to read' and someone thinks it's offensive, it's indeed their problem, not mine". This would be accurate and i wouldn't care to reply to you again. And you're writing in a public forum, so if you cannot take scrutinity to your texts, then that's your problem, not mine! I welcome scrutinity to my texts. And i'm always willing to learn! Even when you're not right, you fight back to the point of being ridiculous. It's a shame really because i see people stop posting because of your attitude. You pretty much disagreed with every single new thing anyone - not just me! - presented to this discussion, and then you have the nerve to say that Brian is the TSMGO songwriter because he wrote the lyrics? You've had for years stated that John Deacon was the one playing the guitar on "Who needs me", even when there was nothing to support this view. Nothing! For anyone who plays the guitar it was pretty obvious it was Brian, but you've made your mind and so it had to be John. That is until Brian said in an interview it was him. You even got me confused there, because i thought based on your site, that you probably had an official source stating it, otherwise i don't understand how you got to such a conclusion. Only to find out that it was just what you "thought" happened in the studio. It's the same thing with the Peter Straker thing. You think you know what went on in that gathering, and so you know that he didn't contributed to the lyrics of IGSM. And you know that David Richards didn't contributed to anything creatively on UP other than playing the piano. You seem to know everything, even when we present sources and base our conclusions on behaviour, you discard everything. That is of course, until some new interview with some official source confirms we were right. Sebastian, this was clearly a bad weekend for you! Of all people here, you were the last person i thought was going to become childish in discussing an issue. |
| Sebastian 26.10.2015 06:40 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote: Worst than trying to offend a person is to lie about what that person said.Well, you lied about what I said... again, I've only claimed John and Roger are responsible for 85+% of the *chord progression*, not for 85+% of the *song* (even though I do not count bass lines or guitar solos as part of the songwriting process, I count them as part of the arranging stage, but even then, the chord progression is far from being the only thing that counts). So, you've repeatedly lied about what I said. Mr.QueenFan wrote: Because Brian was the one who created the structure of the song, based on a sequence by Roger and John. But you can read back my replies! And we don't need to agree on this.The funny thing is, we do agree on that. I've always claimed Brian's the main composer of the song despite 85+% of the chord progression not being his. Mr.QueenFan wrote: I welcome scrutinity to my texts. And i'm always willing to learn!That's a great attitude indeed! Mr.QueenFan wrote: Even when you're not right, you fight back to the point of being ridiculous.No, of course not. I've been wrong many times, and I've admitted so. I've got no problem with that. Mr.QueenFan wrote: then you have the nerve to say that Brian is the TSMGO songwriter because he wrote the lyrics?Yes, indeed. He's also the main (but not sole, because of the aforementioned chord progression) composer, the main (perhaps even sole) arranger and the main (perhaps even sole) producer. Mr.QueenFan wrote: You've had for years stated that John Deacon was the one playing the guitar on "Who needs me", even when there was nothing to support this view. Nothing!Well, there was the fact they were both credited for acoustic. But yes, I was wrong to have claimed that, and as soon as I realised that I admitted it. Mr.QueenFan wrote: For anyone who plays the guitar it was pretty obvious it was BrianNo, not really. Maybe it was obvious for many people, but not for everyone. Fortunately, I realised I was wrong and admitted it, as others probably also did. Mr.QueenFan wrote: you've made your mind and so it had to be John. That is until Brian said in an interview it was him.First of all, I did realise it was Brian *before* he confirmed it, but that's beside the point. There are no authorities in science: if I say something, you're more than entitled to agree or disagree with it, so there's absolutely no sense in your 'you've made your mind so it had to be John.' No, it didn't have to be John ... it was mistakenly thought (by me) that it was John, that was all. It's not like I was forcing you to believe me... or anyone else for that matter. Mr.QueenFan wrote: i don't understand how you got to such a conclusion.It was because of the credit and because of John's alleged level of classical guitar playing. At that moment, I mistakenly believed it made more sense for the solo to have been played by him than by Brian, but yes, I was wrong. That's how you reach conclusions, starting from a hypothesis, which could be right (in this case, it wasn't) or could be wrong (in this case, it was). Mr.QueenFan wrote: Only to find out that it was just what you "thought" happened in the studio.Yes, of course, and there's nothing wrong with that. Nowhere in any of my posts have I claimed I know for sure what happened. Come on: even those who were there often contradict each other or forget about what happened! Mr.QueenFan wrote: You think you know what went on in that gatheringNo, I don't think I know. Again, you're putting words in my mouth ... my only point is that, based on the evidence we've got so far, it's quite premature to conclude he contributed heavily to the lyrics just because he was there. Mr.QueenFan wrote: And you know that David Richards didn't contributed to anything creatively on UP other than playing the piano.No, I don't know it. My point is, based on the evidence we've got, there's nothing to suggest he contributed anything creatively on UP. He might have contributed to its performance (and there I agree with you that his piano does take the song to another level), but there's no evidence to support the hypothesis of him having contributed creatively. Mr.QueenFan wrote: You seem to know everything.I don't and I've admitted so quite a few times. Mr.QueenFan wrote: we present sources and base our conclusions on behaviour, you discard everything.No, I don't. I discard what I believe not to be strong enough evidence. Look at the 'high Galileo' thread which started recently: I thought the sped up bit (which wasn't part of the final cut) was Freddie, then someone slowed it down and uploaded it and it was clear that I was wrong and that it was Roger. No need for official sources, just some strong piece of evidence (audio evidence) that made me realise I was wrong, that was all. There's evidence Straker was there, but no evidence that he contributed heavily to the lyrics. There's evidence David contributed to the performance of UP, but no evidence that he contributed to its songwriting. Mr.QueenFan wrote: Sebastian, this was clearly a bad weekend for you!Not even close. It was a great weekend! I got to catch up with a couple of people whom I hadn't spoken (in depth) for a while, I had a lovely time at work on Saturday, I did a lot of paperwork that'll (hopefully) make this week far easier, I enjoyed some nice books and even got to watch an old film which I'd never watched before and which I was quite curious about. Moreover, I got to be alive, healthy, eat nice food, drink clean water and juice, have access to books, technology, beddings ... which millions of people are not fortunate to get to. It was a fantastic weekend. |
| Sebastian 26.10.2015 06:44 |
By the way, you still haven't replied to this:
Sebastian wrote:Let's see them one by one:Mr.QueenFan wrote: And i'm not counting the fact that when the Queen multitracks were leaked you were proved wrong in so many assumptions that it's not even fun!Really? Which ones? *Dust: I was wrong about it being synth-less, and I admitted so. * Bicycle: Nothing I can think of. * Bo Rhap: Nothing I can think of. If anything, multi's confirm there are no 180 voices there. * Brighton Rock: Nothing I can think of. * C-Lebrity: It does confirm Brian's a far better bassist than I thought. * Crazy: Nothing I can think of. * Two Legs: The double-bass, I'd missed that one indeed. * Don't Stop Me: Nothing I can think of. * Fat Bots: Nothing I can think of. * Get Down, Make Love: Nothing I can think of. * Hammer to Fall: Nothing I can think of. * I Want It All: Nothing I can think of. * Break Free: Nothing I can think of. * Car: Nothing I can think of. * Keep Yourself Alive: Nothing I can think of. * Killer Queen: The jangle piano (which I'm now doubting, btw). * Long Away: Nothing I can think of. * Now I'm Here: Nothing I can think of. I'd already reported there were piano and organ bits there long before the stems leaked. * One Vision: Nothing I can think of. * Play the Game: Nothing I can think of. * Ga Ga: Nothing I can think of. The bass-line was busier than I'd thought, but I'd already reported there was bass. * Seven Seas: Nothing I can think of. * Somebody to Love: Roger's high note that quite a few people thought was a guitar. * Stone Cold Crazy: Nothing I can think of. * Tenement Funster: Nothing I can think of. * Show Must Go On: Nothing I can think of. * Tie Your Mother Down: Nothing I can think of. * Under Pressure: Nothing I can think of. * Champions: Roger's (and perhaps Brian's) backing vocals. * Rock You: Nothing I can think of. * Best Friend: Nothing I can think of. So, out of 31 songs, multi's and stems proved me wrong on six... which means I was still right about 80% of them. Not bad :) |
| Sebastian 26.10.2015 06:52 |
@ Tom Christie: Thanks for updating the list. I'd dispute the following ones (besides, obviously, 'Slightly Mad'):
tomchristie22 wrote: Party - Freddie Khashoggi's Ship - Freddie (music & lyrics), Roger (lyrics) The Miracle - Mainly Freddie & John, with lyrics from all four. These Are the Days of Our Lives - Roger, Freddie (chord progression for guitar solo) The Hitman - Freddie (music) and Brian (lyrics)'Party' had the germinal idea from Freddie, but it was then worked on by Freddie, John and Brian. 'Khashoggi's Ship' had lyrics by all four. 'Miracle' was mainly Freddie with some musical contributions by John and some lyrical contributions by all four (but chiefly Freddie and Roger). There's absolutely nothing, to my knowledge, to support the theory of Fred writing the chord progression behind the 'Days' guitar solo. As far as I know, Rog wrote both music and lyrics (of course, the actual solo is Brian's, but that's part of arranging the song, not composing it). On 'The Hitman', I'd say music was a collab between Fred and Brian. Fred had the original idea and the first version of the riff, then Brian took it over. So it was team work. Lyrics are indeed chiefly Bri's. |
| Mr.QueenFan 26.10.2015 11:43 |
tomchristie22 wrote: [List edited 24/10/15] Innuendo - Freddie (music & lyrics), Brian (music), and Roger (lyrics) .Just to add a little something to this subject, Roger admited in an interview that he wrote 80 to 90% of the lyrics to Innuendo. It's in Spanish, but it's a great inteview. link On a side note, Roger admits that they never recorded the complete "New York, New York" for Highlander. It's in the last page of the interview. In "This are the days of our lives", i read in a Roger Taylor interview - maybe from the past five years - that he was stuck with the song. He didn't knew where to take the song next, so Freddie helped him out and gave it a new direction. The only thing i cannot not recal is if he stated clearly that Freddie wrote the basis for the guitar solo, or if i reached that conclusion based on the implications of what he was saying, because the instrumental segment is the only new direction i see on that song after two verses and and two choruses. I can't present a source to this because i probably just read it on the internet, and i usually don't keep track of the sources on the internet unless it is a big deal. In this case, i just made a mental note about it and moved on. Maybe another Roger fan has read this interview and can add something to this. For the time being, people can trust that Roger said that Freddie helped him out with the music to TATDOOL. edit- just to correct that the interview might be from before 2010. |
| Sebastian 26.10.2015 11:54 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote: For the time being, people can trust that Roger said that Freddie helped him out with the music to TATDOOL.Well ... no, not really, since there's no evidence Roger ever said that. |
| Cyborg 26.10.2015 22:10 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote:I'd never seen that interview, thanks.tomchristie22 wrote: [List edited 24/10/15] Innuendo - Freddie (music & lyrics), Brian (music), and Roger (lyrics) .Just to add a little something to this subject, Roger admited in an interview that he wrote 80 to 90% of the lyrics to Innuendo. It's in Spanish, but it's a great inteview. link |
| tomchristie22 27.10.2015 08:07 |
I removed Freddie from These are the Days of Our Lives for the time being - I'd have to read or hear the quote from Roger specifically. Plus, Freddie's 'new direction' for the song might not necessarily have been musical - it could have been a lyrical idea. |
| Sebastian 27.10.2015 08:23 |
tomchristie22 wrote: I removed Freddie from These are the Days of Our Lives for the time being - I'd have to read or hear the quote from Roger specifically.Exactly. That's how you research. |
| Mr.QueenFan 27.10.2015 13:01 |
tomchristie22 wrote: I removed Freddie from These are the Days of Our Lives for the time being - I'd have to read or hear the quote from Roger specifically. Plus, Freddie's 'new direction' for the song might not necessarily have been musical - it could have been a lyrical idea.And i respect your decision, and assume that you have applied the same principle to everything you now have updated on your first post. And because i don't see many sources being shown here, i assume you've received it through P.M., like for example on the "Let me Live" claim. As far as i'm concerned i will stop adding information to this and your other thread: link |
| Sebastian 27.10.2015 13:26 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote: As far as i'm concerned i will stop adding information to this and your other threadHow about replying to this? Sebastian wrote:Talk about making a claim and then not being able to back it up...Mr.QueenFan wrote: And i'm not counting the fact that when the Queen multitracks were leaked you were proved wrong in so many assumptions that it's not even fun!Really? Which ones? |
| tomchristie22 27.10.2015 23:49 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote:You're right - I'm not painstakingly researching all of this - I've taken Sebastian's word for it in most cases. If someone makes a valid contestation of any of his claims, like he did for yours, I'll take them down too.tomchristie22 wrote: I removed Freddie from These are the Days of Our Lives for the time being - I'd have to read or hear the quote from Roger specifically. Plus, Freddie's 'new direction' for the song might not necessarily have been musical - it could have been a lyrical idea.And i respect your decision, and assume that you have applied the same principle to everything you now have updated on your first post. And because i don't see many sources being shown here, i assume you've received it through P.M., like for example on the "Let me Live" claim. As far as i'm concerned i will stop adding information to this and your other thread: link I'm really not interested in getting involved in this ongoing debate, so I'll leave it at that. |
| Viper 28.10.2015 04:17 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote: (...) I'm from Portugal (...)Hey! I'm also portuguese! Not so many of us around here I think! :P |
| Sebastian 28.10.2015 06:13 |
tomchristie22 wrote: I've taken Sebastian's word for it in most cases.Not a good idea, since I can (and frequently do) make mistakes. There are no authorities in science. At the end of the day, it's not about whether this or that person (myself included, of course) claims Brian wrote a song or not, it's about whether there's evidence to support it. There's plenty of evidence to support the theory of Brian having written 'I Want It All' (including official evidence, since some releases credit only him), but the only argument Brian-ists had in favour of their hypothesis of him allegedly having composed 'Was It All Worth It' was that it had a lot of guitar (not solid evidence at all, since plenty of songs composed by Freddie, John and Roger have a lot of guitar as well). There's the difference. tomchristie22 wrote: If someone makes a valid contestation of any of his claims, like he did for yours, I'll take them down too.And if you do that (quite likely, *when* you do that), I won't be moaning and whining and saying I won't contribute anymore to this or your other thread. tomchristie22 wrote: I'm really not interested in getting involved in this ongoing debate, so I'll leave it at that.As far as I'm concerned, you're more than welcome to contribute (you created this thread to begin with) and there's no reason to think you'll get in the crossfire, so to speak. What could be added (and that's something we can work on collectively) is the extant evidence supporting each of those unofficial credits. A good comprehensive list with links and quotes could be incredibly useful. |
| hobbit in Rhye 28.10.2015 16:16 |
Sebastian wrote: A good comprehensive list with links and quotes could be incredibly useful.Now that would be worth talking about. It always irks me each time I read a claim in this site that I don't know where it came from. I swear to God I don't trust anybody here, Sebastian or not ;) I'll start with the easiest. The rest are for glorious you. Soul Brother: "Freddie told me one day he had a surprise for me - he said, 'I've written a song about you - but it needs your touch on it!' I think, curiously, we were both working on songs separately which referred to each other. Can't remember which one of mine it was, since a lot of my songs were obliquely aimed at him (as well as to be sung by him!). Anyway. we got in the studio and he played this song. Now whether it was really about me I don't know. But I thought it was fab. I know he wrote it in about 15 minutes!. As to why not on album (The Game) - well, Freddie deliberately wrote it as a B-side to fill a gap, so I imagine the album was already sewn up." From Brian May, probably in 2003, according to link , probably from Brian's soapbox. I can't remember where the original quote comes from, an interview or a soapbox. Please help. |
| Sebastian 28.10.2015 17:20 |
Soapbox, circa '04 IIRC. |
| hobbit in Rhye 29.10.2015 02:19 |
Thank you. I can't find a link for that soapbox post. Seems like many things pre 2010 are not in archives. Another soapbox for Bijou: "Just following up on "Bijou" - written by Freddie and I together - it was really inspired (in us both!) by Jeff Beck .... I don't know if you realize already, but the song has an unusual format - we wanted to make it a song "inside out" (with its heart on its sleeve). The main parts of the song are played on guitar instead of being sung, and in the middle, where the guitar solo would normally be, appears the short vocal section. The vocal is a succinct and very precise little verse, a little gem, a "Bijou" - a jewel buried at the heart of the piece: hence the name of the song. Each bit of the melody was alive in our heads and "hummed" before it was played - Freddie coming up with the beginning line which started us off on the trail. Those days were very creative - good times.... " Brian May, from link |
| chaim 20.11.2015 11:16 |
I share Mr.QueenFan's view in that Brian didn't say that he had MORE to do with the vocal part in Bijou than Freddie and that Freddie had MORE to do with the guitar part than Brian. In the interview Mr.QueenFan provided Brian says: "I worked very closely with Freddie on that. He had a lot to do with the guitar line and I had a lot to do with the vocal lines." "A lot" isn't "more", and IMO it's just Brian's way of saying that it was a real collaboration and they stepped on each other's areas - not that they contributed more to the other guy's part. I too remember reading that Freddie came up with the chord sequence beneath the guitar solo in TATDOOL. But I have no idea where I saw that, so i may have been here! :D However, this isn't why I'm writing here. I'm writing because I have a question. You people have mentioned fascinating stuff like Brian saying in some interview that he played the Who Needs You solo. Not that I ever thought it was anyone else but Brian, but I'd love to see the interview where he discusses this kind of stuff - obscure Queen songs and fun trivia. Could someone post a link to that interview, or did he say it on his homepage? |
| Sebastian 20.11.2015 12:27 |
chaim wrote: I share Mr.QueenFan's view in that Brian didn't say that he had MORE to do with the vocal part in Bijou than Freddie and that Freddie had MORE to do with the guitar part than Brian. In the interview Mr.QueenFan provided Brian says: "I worked very closely with Freddie on that. He had a lot to do with the guitar line and I had a lot to do with the vocal lines." "A lot" isn't "more", and IMO it's just Brian's way of saying that it was a real collaboration and they stepped on each other's areas - not that they contributed more to the other guy's part.That's indeed a very good point. chaim wrote: Could someone post a link to that interview, or did he say it on his homepage?AFAIR, it wasn't an interview, but a question he replied on his website: Saturday 9th of July 2011: link |
| chaim 20.11.2015 12:33 |
An unbelievably quick reply. Thanks! I once asked Brian (via his website) about who plays the acoustic guitars on Tenement Funster. Brian was probably sick in bed when they were recorded, but it doesn't mean that he doesn't know. (When he came back to the studio and heard the guitars, he may have asked "who played those?"). But he never replied. :( |
| Mr.QueenFan 20.11.2015 17:27 |
chaim wrote: However, this isn't why I'm writing here. I'm writing because I have a question. You people have mentioned fascinating stuff like Brian saying in some interview that he played the Who Needs You solo. Not that I ever thought it was anyone else but Brian, but I'd love to see the interview where he discusses this kind of stuff - obscure Queen songs and fun trivia. Could someone post a link to that interview, or did he say it on his homepage?I read that in an interview by GuitarPlayer with the title "Brian May Still Reigns as the King of Tone" of April 16, 2012. It's a great intervew, and it's worth a reading. Here's a link for the interview: link And here's a link for the Queenzone thread where this interview was discussed: link |
| chaim 21.11.2015 02:16 |
Thanks! |
| Sebastian 05.05.2016 11:14 |
How about replying to this?
Sebastian wrote:Talk about making a claim and then not being able to back it up...Mr.QueenFan wrote: And i'm not counting the fact that when the Queen multitracks were leaked you were proved wrong in so many assumptions that it's not even fun!Really? Which ones? |