| zippo112 16.07.2014 10:51 |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XZzglak-q4&hd=1 |
| brENsKi 16.07.2014 11:13 |
it could be, but it could also NOT be. there's nothing on there that a good player/mimic couldn't do. no vocals, no audible talking so, i'd like to reserve judgement on this "find" until it's corroborated. |
| mooghead 16.07.2014 16:09 |
Credible source BUT.. even if it is Freddie.. couldn't care less about a discarded piano recording... |
| inu-liger 16.07.2014 16:14 |
That sounds a lot like an upright piano. Did Freddie have one of those alongside his other black piano at Garden Lodge? Also, not too sure of the playing style either. This is probably best labelled as 'suspect' for now. |
| dave76 17.07.2014 05:59 |
From what i have been told, this track is from a tape Jim Hutton owned. It contains 4 instrumental pieces all done by Freddie. |
| gerry 17.07.2014 11:32 |
well what a gorgeous piece of piano playing by freddie. i can tell it is fred at the piano as his style is so easy to figure out just like Brians guitar licks. This was a contented freddie, and i know he was truly happy with jim by his side at this time, for you can tell in his piano playing. |
| cmsdrums 17.07.2014 12:17 |
I suppose a way to help determine some authenticity would to ask someone such as Peter Freestone if that track was one that Freddie would listen to, or play, at home. If he says yes it would help go towards some 'provenance'. If he says he never once heard Freddie play the song (and he was with him as much/more than most at home) then that would count against. Not definitive I know, but it would help. |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 17.07.2014 22:17 |
Is true, is from a tape selled for a collector by Jim Hutton. |
| John S Stuart 19.07.2014 02:48 |
This track is genuine; and I am the collector. Many years ago, I had the pleasure of meeting Jim Hutton a wee while before he died, and I did indeed purchase the cassette from him. It may not have been Freddie's taste in music (I am not sure) but it was Jim's, and Jim would pester Freddie to play these sort of tracks for him. Freddie would respond with a few spontaneous bars - and then give up (I guess because he did not know the rest) and laugh it off as some sort of joke. (This is evidenced in other Garden Lodge tapes of a similar period). Regardless of what you read in the press (or hear otherwise), there was a genuine closeness between Freddie and Jim and when Freddie pissed Jim-off, and Jim went off in a sulky strop; Oftentimes Freddie would later "apologise" in his own way with some lavishly generous gift. But on one or two occasions, after very serious bust-ups; (and after brooding a while) Freddie would pretty quickly listen to one of Jim's favourite pieces of music, practice a few times, and then tape-record his version for Jim as some sort personalised peace offering, and special apology. These are Jim's recollections - not mine. I have never "released" these because they were an intimate communication between two men. Somethings were just not meant to be heard in public. However - some scumbags - like David C*ntface Fuller, think it is fine to sell these on (after receiving these freely in good faith) for personal gain. "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" I hope this resolves all doubt about the question. |
| gerry 19.07.2014 03:05 |
john: you are a lucky man meeting jim hutton, in my opinion he was very much ignored in the Queen circle, as the band never really bothered with him, and Mary Austin was an absolute bitch the way she treated jim when freddie passed away, im sure fred would have been truly disgusted if he knew the way jim was treated by mary. Yeah that piece of music "send in the clowns" was easily identifiable as Freddies piano style. Have you heard the tape of freddie and pals singing Que sera sera that Doris Day song, it was hilarious as freddie was obviously high on something and singing " go and drop dead you fag" ! i think peter straker was there too. |
| John S Stuart 19.07.2014 03:19 |
Gerry; I agree with you 200%! 100% from my point of view, and 100% with yours! To be honest, I don't know. But what I do know is that Jim was a bitter and broken man - but that was because of the politics and greed you alluded to. Nevertheless there was STILL a deep affection for Freddie and he came across more as the lover burned; than as a man with an axe to grind. Hey, you pays your money and take your choice, but he seemed genuine enough to me. |
| John S Stuart 19.07.2014 03:20 |
Gerry; I agree with you 200%! 100% from my point of view, and 100% with yours! To be honest, I don't know. But what I do know is that Jim was a bitter and broken man - but that was because of the politics and greed you alluded to. Nevertheless there was STILL a deep affection for Freddie and he came across more as the lover burned; than as a man with an axe to grind. Hey, you pays your money and take your choice, but he seemed genuine enough to me. |
| BETA215 19.07.2014 04:29 |
Thanks John for the story. Now that this song is public, can you share a lossless scan of the song? And another question, how that song become public? I mean, you are the owner of the cassette and another person upload it. |
| Chief Mouse 19.07.2014 04:40 |
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| gerry 19.07.2014 05:04 |
yes i truly believe jim made freddie very happy and fr once in his life freddie could be comfortable and himself. Although freddie was fond of mary she was shield from his sexuality, until freddie got the courage to tell her the truth. She was never the less a leach when freddie left his will and a bitter row erupted between mary and jim, and he got badly hurt. Jim deserved more than what he inherited and mary did not deserve what she got. |
| brENsKi 19.07.2014 06:25 |
gerry wrote: yes i truly believe jim made freddie very happy and fr once in his life freddie could be comfortable and himself. Although freddie was fond of mary she was shield from his sexuality, until freddie got the courage to tell her the truth. She was never the less a leach when freddie left his will and a bitter row erupted between mary and jim, and he got badly hurt. Jim deserved more than what he inherited and mary did not deserve what she got. Gerry this whole conversation can rack up some strong arguments here. see previous threads :-) Anyhow, my opinion on it - Freddie left her the house to do with as she chose - this was HOW MUCH he thought of Mary - perhaps if he truly loved Jim he'd have left it to him? It was Mary's and so were the contents that he bequeathed to her. Tell me honestly that if someone left you a house in their will, that YOU'D be happy to have the deceased's old friends still living there...and if so, how long would YOU be ok with that situation...think about it. All the friends, and friends of friends and the hangers on and liggers - people you've never met ....after all it was her house and up to her who she let live there - or not. |
| Erin 19.07.2014 06:55 |
Thanks for the info, John. I was happy to hear the tracks, but I'm sorry it was a result of you getting screwed over. |
| BETA215 19.07.2014 06:58 |
Chief Mouse wrote:Post by Leonardo Archivist Pelz. Thank you Chief Mouse! It's a shame why this is leaked... |
| Stone Cold Leo'82 B.R. 19.07.2014 08:54 |
I've only shared the links that were posted 1st by Sikke as comments to a public post |
| Stelios 19.07.2014 16:13 |
By the way, Send In The Clowns would be a great tittle for a Queen track. Especially for the Innuendo era. |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 19.07.2014 22:54 |
There are five instrumental songs by Freddie, aren't it Gerry? I can understand the point of view of Jim Hutton...he made happy Freddie. Closers friends of Freddie, like Mike Moran or Mack, always have good words for him. Even Roger Taylor said he was a good man. About Mary Austin. link No comments. |
| gerry 20.07.2014 02:45 |
Sure Mary Austin acted like a shield for freddie in the early days before he admitted he was gay, but it really was jim who brought the love and compassion that freddie had craved for many many years. Mary was a very good close friend but she could not give freddie the man love which he craved so much. Quite frankly i would bed jim than mary any day! |
| gerry 20.07.2014 02:48 |
Stelios: what a fabulous idea, if Queen & Adam Lambert ever released an album, to call it "send in the clowns" says everything about Lambert and Queen now doesnt it! l.o.l |
| Mr.QueenFan 20.07.2014 08:27 |
John S Stuart wrote: This track is genuine; and I am the collector. Many years ago, I had the pleasure of meeting Jim Hutton a wee while before he died, and I did indeed purchase the cassette from him. .Thanks for telling us the origins of the tape. It's great to see the respect you have when talking about Jim. He allways seemed like an honest man to me. Now i have downloaded this tape and listened to it - it's great and to know that this was pre - make up sex makes it even more special. :-) It's sad to see that you got screwd over this one - Again! Man, that realy sucks, because i'm having great pleasure hearing all these things that David leaked. But i'm not happy about the way these gems are getting into my hands. Since the first time i saw "Send in the clowns" on a list somewhere i just counted the days untill i got to hear it. I wasn't expecting for an instrumental, but it's great. Thangs again. |
| brENsKi 20.07.2014 10:24 |
Apocalipsis_Darko wrote: I can understand the point of view of Jim Hutton...he made happy Freddie. About Mary Austin. link No comments.Jim may have been his lover - but Mary was his true soulmate |
| gerry 20.07.2014 10:42 |
Freddie may have loved mary with his mind, but he loved jim with his cock! |
| MercurialFreddie 20.07.2014 19:06 |
These covers are great, why the hell Freddie didn't record more of him playing classical music. Maybe one day we will hear Freddie's interpretation of Chopin which is reported as preserved on tape. Anyway, apart from all the controversy around sharing the tape it really shows us another side of his talent and how much emotions meant to him. |
| Fireplace 21.07.2014 18:45 |
gerry wrote: Freddie may have loved mary with his mind, but he loved jim with his cock!Good grief man, if you were any more shallow you'd be a hole in the ground. |
| gerry 22.07.2014 04:18 |
Fireplace: i am sure your no prude man! Freddie always said what he felt so why not? Anyway its true what i said, Jim did satisfy freddies fantasies more than what greedy bloody mary could do.. She talks about people who hung around fred for the free presents and friends of friends stayed at logan place, but she never said no to any of freds hospitality or expensive gifts did she! She also claimed the 3 other Queen members have never been in touch with her for over 22 years since fred passed away because she felt they are jealous she got freddies £22 million house and £9million savings! I thought it was very wrong that she would not tell freddies parents and sister were she scattered freddies ashes, a very cruel thing to do, even though that was freds request, but you must remember that fred was very very ill when he made those requests so obviously was not thinking logical. She was even moaning that she has too much money now and it has caused problems in here life! priceless. |
| inu-liger 22.07.2014 04:56 |
Fireplace wrote:Indeed, Gerry makes it sound as if it were purely a physical relationship with no actual emotions involved. Very shallow wording indeed.gerry wrote: Freddie may have loved mary with his mind, but he loved jim with his cock!Good grief man, if you were any more shallow you'd be a hole in the ground. |
| brENsKi 22.07.2014 06:23 |
brENsKi wrote:Apocalipsis_Darko wrote:I can understand the point of view of Jim Hutton...he made happy Freddie. About Mary Austin. link No comments.Jim may have been his lover - but Mary was his true soulmate gerry wrote:Freddie may have loved mary with his mind, but he loved jim with his cock!and in the final reckoning...it's clear that Freddie thought MUCH MUCH more of the relationship with Mary than that with Jim (or "the cock") as you so subtley put it....he left the house and contents to Mary...it's obvious that freddie clearly wasn't as shallow as you are |
| John S Stuart 22.07.2014 08:03 |
How quickly serious discussions descend... |
| gerry 22.07.2014 08:37 |
nope i aint shallow dudes it is fact rather than fiction. so why has the other 3 Queenies not spoken to mary austin in 22 years then? Freddie was himself with jim and with mary he was hiding the real freddie. sure he left her the lot, but they was a bitter dispute between austin and hutton which was in the national newspapers. In my opinion Freddie was very very happy in love with jim, and thank god he changed his mind marrying mary that would have been a massive mistake. |
| Vocal harmony 22.07.2014 11:03 |
gerry wrote: nope i aint shallow dudes it is fact rather than fiction. so why has the other 3 Queenies not spoken to mary austin in 22 years then? Freddie was himself with jim and with mary he was hiding the real freddie. sure he left her the lot, but they was a bitter dispute between austin and hutton which was in the national newspapers. In my opinion Freddie was very very happy in love with jim, and thank god he changed his mind marrying mary that would have been a massive mistake.What you have failed to grasp is that Mary was Freddie's life long companion, through his adult life. Regardless of the other failed relationships she was always there. They were almost inseparable, she very often toured with the band in Freddies party. Regardless of his sexual orientation, Mary was the love of his life. He said as much "people come and go, but Mary is the one constant person in my life" Yes Freddie's relationship with Jim lasted longer than the others he had, but he wasn't the be all and end all of Freddies life, had he been surley he would have been sitting in Garden Lodge instead of Mary. |
| gerry 22.07.2014 14:13 |
i think in this day and age Freddie & jim would have certainly tied the knot! That would certainly have hacked mary off! She was nasty throwing all of freddies friends out of garden lodge, like peter straker, phobe, and many others, and then she got her own staff in! |
| brENsKi 22.07.2014 14:21 |
gerry wrote:i think in this day and age Freddie & jim would have certainly tied the knot!says who? Freddie could've easily grown tired of Jim - it's just as likely as your theory of marriage gerry wrote:That would certainly have hacked mary off!i don;t think so - Mary only ever wanted Freddie to be happy gerry wrote:She was nasty throwing all of freddies friends out of garden lodge, like peter straker, phobe, and many others, and then she got her own staff in!it was her house. freddie gave it to her. those people had no rights - and they more than overstayed their welcome |
| gerry 22.07.2014 14:28 |
Sure i understand what your saying, but jim was very angry the way he got treated. i understand peter freestone wasnt to glad either! |
| brENsKi 22.07.2014 16:07 |
gerry wrote: Sure i understand what your saying, but jim was very angry the way he got treated. i understand peter freestone wasnt to glad either!ok. I'll ask you one last time....you inherit a house from someone...how LONGGGGG would you humour and put up with the dead person's friends and their hangers-on being there? it's your house now, come on, be honest - almost everyone would "clear the decks" asap the one thing to remember in all of this? WE only have the word of jim, straker and co to go by.....NONE of us knows what actually happened or what went on....at least Mary has kept her dignity with regard to this episode....as opposed to freddie's money-grubbing so-called friends...selling their ass and soul (pun) to any tabloid shitsheet they can find...(ffs this story has been told so many times by whiney-assed ne're do wells who had a good run and bemoaned their "gravy train" unceremoniously derailing in late 1991. fuck em - all of em!!! let's face some facts: doesn't matter how close these people thought they were to Freddie - there's one over-riding factor - they weren't that close - any of them...or he'd have left them the house. he didn't. end of. |
| inu-liger 22.07.2014 17:15 |
I read somewhere a long time ago Freddie bought a few houses for his closest friends in the last year of his life. Is that inaccurate then? |
| musicland munich 22.07.2014 18:47 |
^It's true, Freddie did that. ( Jim Hutton 's house in Ireland and a small house for Joe in Chiswick) for example. |
| winterspelt 22.07.2014 23:58 |
The best thing about this site is that some of their members are amazing people with a huge knowledge and a huge collection of Queen related stuff. Thanks to all of you who have been sharing intersting stuff in this (and the other) threads! The worst thing about this site is how easy a nice post with some interesting facts can be turned into an off-topic nonsense. |
| gerry 23.07.2014 04:40 |
Brenski: Its such a pity Freddie never left his fortune to his sister kashmira, as in my opinion she is freddies blood and more important than Mary. Anyway on the whole i understand what you meant about all the hanger ons in logan place, but dear friends like peter freestone and peter straker plus jim hutton were freddies closest friends, and got treated quite badly. What has hacked me off is the fact that Mary is moaning because she has too much of freddies money, she should stop moaning or give it all away to a worth while charity like "The Mercury phoenix trust" |
| Stelios 23.07.2014 07:08 |
To me is very simple. Mary got the house because Freddie believed that she contributed A LOT to his fame and fortune. She financially supported him in his first steps, encouraged him to pursue his dream, provided a safe heterosexual net for his relationship with his family ( Freddie regarded his family a lot as we know), and lets face it she gave Freddie "a straight side" that was needed to balance his flamboyance at first, gay lifestyle later. I think in way he believed he took advantage of her and to a digree its true. Also they grew up/matured together in those shaping years that turned Bulsara into Mercury.That sais a lot, On the other hand Jim Hutton was NOT a close friend. He was his PARTNER. Freddie even introduced him as his husband when he was comfortable. By today's standards he could be the equivilant to Elton John/David Furnish.A proper couple, kids and all... Although somehow i believe Freddie would again be sticking with adopting another 7 cats. The key thing to undartsand the situation is to aknwoledge that Freddie didn't make it to witness the mainstreaming of the LGBT community. |
| kosimodo 23.07.2014 09:28 |
These tapes should never have been "released" because they were an intimate communication between three men. Somethings were just not meant to be heard in public. |
| brENsKi 23.07.2014 10:36 |
winterspelt wrote:The worst thing about this site is how easy a nice post with some interesting facts can be turned into an off-topic nonsense.so while people discuss what you like it's ok, but when it diverts - as most thread do in time (you can only discuss a certain topic without exhaustion for a finite amount of time) then it becomes "off topic nonsense" - glad you popped by to redress the balance - I'd hate to meander into territory you didn't approve of - and anyhow, didn't i say this would happen? brENsKi wrote: Gerry this whole conversation can rack up some strong arguments here. see previous threads :-) kosimodo wrote: These tapes should never have been "released" because they were an intimate communication between three men. Somethings were just not meant to be heard in public.well there's only ONE person to blame - jim gerry wrote: Brenski: Its such a pity Freddie never left his fortune to his sister kashmira, as in my opinion she is freddies blood and more important than Mary.a pity for who? YOU? it was frediie's money and house, and freddie obviously deemed her and his godchildren more important in this instance - so freddie's decision. everyone else should respect that. full stop. gerry wrote: Anyway on the whole i understand what you meant about all the hanger ons in logan place, but dear friends like peter freestone and peter straker plus jim hutton were freddies closest friends, and got treated quite badly.how did they get treated badly. she asked them to leave HER house - that's her right. - if freddie had really cared much for them, then he'd have written some kind of tenancy term into his will to allow them time to find somewhere else - or he'd have left it in trust to the three of them - he didn't. so only one to blame for any perceived mess is Freddie - not Mary! gerry wrote:What has hacked me off is the fact that Mary is moaning because she has too much of freddies money, she should stop moaning or give it all away to a worth while charity like "The Mercury phoenix trust"i don't recall her saying that - i think she said the burden of responsibility was a huge one - and it would be - for anyone - when you have sorted out a modest estate following the death of a loved one - as I have you may just have an inkling of what a crapfest it can become - and that's BEFORE you get into the realms of a big estate and division of assets/wealth like Freddie's must've been for Mary....people round here should cut the woman some slack - she didn't ask for it, but she dealt with it with the grace and failings that most human beings would do so.... |
| Vocal harmony 23.07.2014 10:57 |
^^^ agreed. Something that isn't very often mentioned is that Freddie only left £8 million in the bank. Reported figure. Many at the time were amazed the amount wasn't much larger. Yes Mary got the house and the bank account, but did Freddie pay a similar amount into an account for his parents and sister while he was still alive? The interviews with Kash and her mother in the kitchen, in the Freddie Saved my Life documentary seem to point to her having a pretty substantial property. |
| gerry 23.07.2014 11:50 |
Brenski: i agree Freddie could have been to blame for the terrible mess his mates were in, i.e Jim, Peter F and Peter S. But....... you must remember fred was terribly ill and not thinking clearly so mistakes were bound to happen. He had enough on his plate knowing he was about to die and soon. I remember jim on a breakfast tv show, and he made it obviuos that he didnt like mary, and to be honest the other 3 Queen members have not bothered with her since. Poor soul she has all that wealth and moaning because she thinks its hard to cope with it all, well some people in this country are using food banks and in the gutters, she ought to be eternally grateful to Freddie. I still think it was bang out of order that she never told kasmira , bomi & jer were Freds remains went. |
| brENsKi 23.07.2014 12:45 |
gerry wrote:Brenski: i agree Freddie could have been to blame for the terrible mess his mates were in, i.e Jim, Peter F and Peter S. But....... you must remember fred was terribly ill and not thinking clearly so mistakes were bound to happen. He had enough on his plate knowing he was about to die and soon..sorry Gerry. it really doesn't work like that. Freddie (like anyone with a terminal illness) knew he was dying and had plenty of time to "get his sh*t in order" we don't know when the will was done...but you make it sound like he had no time and other things to worry about - well if he cared about Jim et all so much he had just the same opportunity to legislate for them as he did for Mary. he didn't. one other thing - he woulda had the best legal people money could buy - so all he'd have to do is say what he wanted and sign the fucking document - unlike normal people who have to get really involved in their own wills because they can't afford a team of lackeys and gophers. I watched my dad and brother die - my brother was told he had a year to live - my dad was given TWO MONTH'S notice. they both sorted their stuff out. Freddie knew he had a terminal illness from approx 1987...that's at least FOUR FUCKING YEARS!!!!.... it was freddie's mess and Mary had to deal with it. - So it's Freddie's fault - and FREDDIE'S FAULT ALONE, and just because freddie loved Jim it doesn't make Jim some blameless plaster saint...if anything he could be the exact opposite gerry wrote:Poor soul she has all that wealth and moaning because she thinks its hard to cope with it all, well some people in this country are using food banks and in the gutters, she ought to be eternally grateful to Freddie.that's the silliest thing you've said - try scratching the surface. try thinking about how someone who was Freddie's soulmate for 20yrs must feel - being villified by fans who think she damaged Jim and how people thnk she's some controlling bitch. think about the burden of responsibility and the deference to his memory etc etc....think how YOU'D feel in HER position - carrying out someone's wishes to the letter - despite what people say and think - that really is devotion and respect. gerry wrote:I still think it was bang out of order that she never told kasmira , bomi & jer were Freds remains went.she has said Freddie asked her to carry out his wishes - and she's done that to the letter - just because YOU don't like it doesn't make it bang out of order....could you imagine several more people knowing where his remains are? that equates to several more people being harangued by fans and ghoul-merchants and sicko tabloids...she did as he asked - kept it to herself and so only she gets hassled with the eternal question. that's a fucking humungous burden to carry daily and pretty fucking selfless in my book . I've got a million times more respect for someone prepared to carry out a task no matter how difficult when there are so many more "easy options" available... as i said; let's cut Mary some slack. I'm backing out of this one now |
| Chief Mouse 23.07.2014 13:17 |
brENsKi wrote:approx 1997... 1987. |
| brENsKi 23.07.2014 13:28 |
Chief Mouse wrote:oops sorry - typo now corrected...stayed too long on the "9" key - but you know what i meantbrENsKi wrote:1987.approx 1997... |
| dudeofqueen 23.07.2014 13:41 |
I've just listened to these tracks and am stunned by them. Double-edged sword stuff in that they shouldn't be available through agreement, but it was simply FAR too tempting to not pick them up. They display a sensitivity and gentleness to Freddie's playing which, presumably, by that time, had been handed over almost entirely to Mike Moran. Imagine what else is 'out there'....... Thank you John S Stuart - and I'm sorry that you have been, yet again, deceived. |
| Mr.QueenFan 23.07.2014 14:22 |
kosimodo wrote: These tapes should never have been "released" because they were an intimate communication between three men. Somethings were just not meant to be heard in public.I don't agree with this, to be fair. If they were still alive, then yes, it should be kept private to protect them. But now they are both gonne, so i don't feel this is disrespectful to them in anyway. I believe that Queenfans and music fans in general respect Freddie and Jim and will respect the meaning of this songs. I think it's beautiful that Freddie could express his love through music. It only adds a new dimension to him. Music was a means for him to express his feelings and that's why he became a genius. And the way John S Stuart talked about this issue was very respectful too. In the end, i see this as those books that are now being released with love letters from big personalities, who aren't among us, but when treated with respect, it serves to inspire others. I like what i hear, but i respect the fact that John S Stuart feels bad about the way this was leaked. |
| Mr.QueenFan 23.07.2014 14:41 |
brENsKi wrote:I agree with this. People think it's easy to win the lottery or in this case to inherit a big sum of money and a 20m pound house. But the reality is if you don't have a strong personality you will get Fu*k*d big time. That's why so many winners of the Euromillions disappear and go live elsewhere quietly.gerry wrote:What has hacked me off is the fact that Mary is moaning because she has too much of freddies money, she should stop moaning or give it all away to a worth while charity like "The Mercury phoenix trust"i don't recall her saying that - i think she said the burden of responsibility was a huge one - and it would be - for anyone - when you have sorted out a modest estate following the death of a loved one - as I have you may just have an inkling of what a crapfest it can become - and that's BEFORE you get into the realms of a big estate and division of assets/wealth like Freddie's must've been for Mary....people round here should cut the woman some slack - she didn't ask for it, but she dealt with it with the grace and failings that most human beings would do so.... For Mary this was a very hard time i believe, and she needed someone strong beside her - a guy like Jim Beach. I really don't think she could handle it alone, but if she did, more power to her. She had to grow fast! In my book Jim was also a great guy, so i really don't know what happened after Freddie died or even care. And the reasons why Freddie left Mary those millions, only Freddie knows. But i thought that he took good care of Jim too, i don 't know. As for his sister and mother, aren't them the recipients of the royalties? Who's Freddie's state? I allways thought it was his family?! |
| winterspelt 23.07.2014 21:53 |
brENsKi wrote: so while people discuss what you like it's ok, but when it diverts - as most thread do in time (you can only discuss a certain topic without exhaustion for a finite amount of time) then it becomes "off topic nonsense" - glad you popped by to redress the balance - I'd hate to meander into territory you didn't approve of - and anyhow, didn't i say this would happen? This post is in the "serious discussion" subforum, I dont know how quotes like: Freddie may have loved mary with his mind, but he loved jim with his cock! or if Queen & Adam Lambert ever released an album, to call it "send in the clowns" can be considered on-topic or serious, specially when you talk about something as personal as the origin of this tapet, why this songs were recorded, what did they meant to Jim Hutton, how many of this are in private collectors' hands, etc etc. |
| Holly2003 24.07.2014 05:28 |
John Stuart wrote: I have never "released" these because they were an intimate communication between two men. Somethings were just not meant to be heard in public. And yet you paid for them to hear them yourself so there is a degree of voyeurism on your part is there not? And then you traded/shared them with at least one other collector (Fuller). How does that square with your statement above? Is it morally fine to share this private stuff among yourselves but somehow, in some unexplained way, a moral issue appears when they are shared more widely? A separate but related point -- was this part of the "fanthology" deal? Wasn't the idea of that to make stuff "heard in public"? |
| Martin Packer 24.07.2014 09:34 |
Maybe he bought them to ensure they were looked after. |
| Donna13 24.07.2014 10:01 |
The playing was beautiful - full of sensitivity and sorrow. Very expressive. I was going to say I thought it may very well be Freddie because of the feeling in his playing, which not every person who learns to play can ever achieve. Glad to know it is verified. I don't know why Jim would sell it. Must have needed the money desperately. And I guess he didn't think it would be a betrayal of Freddie to let someone else have the tape. It's a lovely recording, and I see no moral issue with other people hearing it. I mean, I think it was OK for Jim to allow another person to hear it. And Jim surely knew that it may get released to a wider audience at some point. Anyway, when people die, one of the emotions of their loved ones who are grieving is anger. And sometimes that is preferable to deep sadness. Some of the things said about Mary were from a personal perspective of someone who was grieving. The actual facts may have been entirely misunderstood or misinterpreted. Lawyers do tend to control what happens with a large estate. And their primary goal is to protect their client and reduce risk. If Freddie's friends (who were also employees), were asked to leave, I am sure it was because the estate needed to be settled, with all loose ends tied up to the satisfaction of the legal team. They probably had a timeline set by the lawyers (just my guess). |
| CM 24.07.2014 10:52 |
Thanks for all these leaked tapes! Its been all great stuff since the last few leaked demos some time ago, and we still got the new Queen album with Fred and Michael coming. Now the Barcelona piano session (72 minutes) and the Garden Lodge 88 session (52 minutes) can both be enjoyed, what are your feelings and thoughts guys? |
| kosimodo 24.07.2014 11:59 |
Ooooff, at least holly2003 got my point... |
| BETA215 24.07.2014 13:04 |
CM wrote: Thanks for all these leaked tapes! Its been all great stuff since the last few leaked demos some time ago, and we still got the new Queen album with Fred and Michael coming. Now the Barcelona piano session (72 minutes) and the Garden Lodge 88 session (52 minutes) can both be enjoyed, what are your feelings and thoughts guys? You have the complete Barcelona piano session and the Garden Lodge 88' session? The things I only have are the FM box set demos and 3 songs with Freddie and friends in Garden Lodge. |
| The Real Wizard 24.07.2014 15:30 |
Vocal harmony wrote: Something that isn't very often mentioned is that Freddie only left £8 million in the bank. Reported figure. Many at the time were amazed the amount wasn't much larger.Also not widely publicized is that he gave to charity a lot, since he didn't make sure to stop the press to give him recognition. So I wouldn't be surprised if that's where it went. But only he knows.. |
| The Real Wizard 24.07.2014 15:57 |
brENsKi wrote: she asked them to leave HER house - that's her right. - if freddie had really cared much for them, then he'd have written some kind of tenancy term into his will to allow them time to find somewhere else - or he'd have left it in trust to the three of them - he didn't. so only one to blame for any perceived mess is Freddie - not Mary!^ bingo. Excellent post overall, but I had to highlight this part. gerry wrote: Brenski: Its such a pity Freddie never left his fortune to his sister kashmira, as in my opinion she is freddies blood and more important than Mary.Thank goodness for your opinion. If only Freddie had asked you he might've changed his mind. Tell me more about your expertise on people you've never met... Seriously everyone - let's stick to the topic at hand, shall we ? |
| gerry 25.07.2014 04:05 |
Real wizard: no need to be sarcastic, it is such an ugly quality. |
| Costa86 25.07.2014 04:46 |
We can never know the exact value which Freddie gave to Mary and to Jim. We know that he loved Mary a lot - she was his lifelong best friend. Jim was a less long-term companion, but he was probably his most special lover. He had to give the house to one of them, and he chose Mary. That's all we can say. I think the bond of 20+ years which he had with Mary was stronger than that of 7 or so years which he had with Jim, but he still took care of Jim and made sure he never had to work again. And it is to be expected that when he died, Mary and Jim would have a very abrasive relationship. They were two very average individuals vying for the belongings of a dead superstar. |
| Costa86 25.07.2014 04:54 |
The Real Wizard wrote:£8 million? Never heard this before - where was this publicised? But it does make some sense. I believe he made about £20 million during his life, and considering that he spent so much of it and left so much to Mary, Jim, etc., £8 million left sounds about right.Vocal harmony wrote: Something that isn't very often mentioned is that Freddie only left £8 million in the bank. Reported figure. Many at the time were amazed the amount wasn't much larger.Also not widely publicized is that he gave to charity a lot, since he didn't make sure to stop the press to give him recognition. So I wouldn't be surprised if that's where it went. But only he knows.. I believe he's worth upwards of £60 million now. |
| gerry 25.07.2014 06:11 |
cotsta: yeah i agree with everything you said in your post. ok jim and freddie where only together for around 7 years, where as he had known mary at least 21 years and i suppose she had got him through some very vulnerable times and abusive comments from the press as they were always gunning at Queen in the 70s and 80s. i did read that mary got the £22 million house and got £9million of freds fortune, but i also read that jim only got £500.000 from freddie. still not bad for a 7 year relationship! |
| cmsdrums 25.07.2014 06:25 |
gerry wrote: cotsta: yeah i agree with everything you said in your post. ok jim and freddie where only together for around 7 years, where as he had known mary at least 21 years and i suppose she had got him through some very vulnerable times and abusive comments from the press as they were always gunning at Queen in the 70s and 80s. i did read that mary got the £22 million house and got £9million of freds fortune, but i also read that jim only got £500.000 from freddie. still not bad for a 7 year relationship!Don't forget that she's one of the executors of his Estate and also possible a director of Mercury Songs Ltd too? The royalties in airplay and record sales alone over the last 23 years would, I'm sure, be very substantial too. |
| brENsKi 25.07.2014 08:04 |
cmsdrums wrote: Don't forget that she's one of the executors of his Estate and also possible a director of Mercury Songs Ltd too? The royalties in airplay and record sales alone over the last 23 years would, I'm sure, be very substantial too.executors don't inherit everything and sometimes they don't inherit anything - executor is a role appointed in the will to ensure the will is administered correctly - this is usually the person that he/she writing the will trusts most, or most capable of doing this. as for royalties...where did you see that proof that Mary get's residual royalties? You do realise that companies have such things as non-executive directors - who receive no part of the profit - and are in some cases paid no more than a nominal fee for the role? it's the very first I've heard of her being named as someone to receive future profits from songs freddie performed on or wrote |
| inu-liger 25.07.2014 12:20 |
gerry wrote: Real wizard: no need to be sarcastic, it is such an ugly quality.Stones in a glass house... |
| gerry 25.07.2014 12:26 |
stones in a glass house only where your concerned and that "real wizard twit" |
| GERRYISADICK 25.07.2014 15:57 |
Gerry stop being an confrontational |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 25.07.2014 16:13 |
Mary Austin never have been IN a good love relationship, always divorced. She was a dreamer, she was in love with Freddie, but Freddie never could be in love with her at all. I mean, like best friends yes, but not as she wanted...the rest is history. I don't say anything against Mary in that case, I only feel sadness for her. I mean, she thinks John, Roger and Brian are jelous for her money....I think John, Roger and Brian don't have money problems to be jelous about that!!!! Only with the royalties of Another One Bites The Dust all Deacon's family will live as rich persons until the end of their days. Also, Is very easy talk in a forum and too much years later. in my opinion, If she was smart, she will end the relationship as close friend with Freddie and living her own life. But she preffered to be with her platonic love....her election. I respect that. I don't respect how she acted later with Jim, Joe, Gerry and Peter Freestone. |
| The Real Wizard 25.07.2014 16:17 |
gerry wrote: Real wizard: no need to be sarcastic, it is such an ugly quality.I'd say it's done guys like Bill Maher and the Monty Python troop quite well.. |
| inu-liger 25.07.2014 16:17 |
Jefffab1995 wrote: Gerry stop being an confrontationalAgreed. I wish he would drop the bitter attitude and just learn to get along, stop contributing to the typical negative atmosphere here. |
| inu-liger 25.07.2014 16:18 |
The Real Wizard wrote:Don't forget Jon Stewart!gerry wrote: Real wizard: no need to be sarcastic, it is such an ugly quality.I'd say it's done guys like Bill Maher and the Monty Python troop quite well.. |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 25.07.2014 16:18 |
Oh, there are very obscure things about last months in Freddie's live. Too hard to say in public. Private things. The story always said Freddie and Barbara Valentine broke their friendship in Munich. False. Some person want to rewrite the story. Everyone knows the name of that person. Let the sleeping dogs lie. |
| The Real Wizard 25.07.2014 16:19 |
Apocalipsis_Darko wrote: Mary Austin never have been IN a good love relationship, always divorced. She was a dreamer, she was in love with Freddie, but Freddie never could be in love with her at all. I mean, like best friends yes, but not as she wanted...the rest is history.You really need to stop talking about things you know nothing about. Does your subscription to weekly tabloids make you a scholar on the lives of celebrities? The books that you think make you an expert on Freddie Mercury and the people around him aren't nearly as complete as you think they are. As soon as people on this forum realize that, there will be a lot less conjecture and drivel posted here. The only person who was an expert on Freddie Mercury's personal life has been dead for about 22 years. |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 25.07.2014 16:25 |
Woooh, Mr. Wizard, a little arrogant your answer, don't you think? I don't say anything from books, I did interviews with persons that meet Freddie better than me and you, so don't write so agressive. Take it easy man, as Tony Soprano said. TAKE IT EASY! |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 25.07.2014 16:27 |
And I'm not an expert about nothing, only about playing like Zidane! I never being agressive with you, so, again....be more polite. |
| The Real Wizard 25.07.2014 16:34 |
Apocalipsis_Darko wrote: And I'm not an expert about nothing, only about playing like Zidane!And head butts ! ;) Sorry if my tone was harsh, but my central point remains. There really is no point in speculating about the personal lives of people we ultimately know very little about. Congrats on getting to interview some of these people. But making sweeping statements like "Freddie never could be in love with her at all" just doesn't add anything to the dialogue. That doesn't make you a very good journalist. That's material suited for a B rated tabloid, and based on other things I've seen you write here, methinks you can do much better than that, good sir. |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 25.07.2014 16:39 |
Is only my opinion in a FORUM. Never of us knows the truth, honestly. Do you think I will publish that in an article? Never. Is my spectulation and opinion on a forum, like I can do in a pub. Never in a printed magazine.....my friend! I can't have problems with Mr. Frank Zappa! ;) Don't threat me like Captain Beefheart :) |
| The Real Wizard 25.07.2014 18:13 |
I sure chose the right avatar then. I almost feel like a politician, as I can get away with pretty much anything here ;) |
| gerry 26.07.2014 05:02 |
Acpocolisso: Didnt i say earlier the "The Real Wizard" was nasty and sarcastis and to be honest your spot on as he does write very aggressively, and people have the nerve on here to say i am confrontational because "Wizard" seems to get away with his shit comments on here. He is not getting the better of me on here! |
| gerry 26.07.2014 05:05 |
Real wizard: yeah you are like a politician in that you do not know what the hell you are talking about most of the time and you have something in common with David Cameron, you have your head where the sun dont shine mate. |
| brENsKi 26.07.2014 07:18 |
gerry wrote: Real wizard: yeah you are like a politician in that you do not know what the hell you are talking about most of the time and you have something in common with David Cameron, you have your head where the sun dont shine mate.Gerry, if you're going to put someone down by likening them to someone you don't like, then it's probably best you use someone who at least "blips on the world radar". Obama, Putin, Merkel...but NOT Cameron Cameron is almost completely irrelevant at UK level - so why should overseas QZ fans understand the point of your simile? |
| gerry 26.07.2014 08:17 |
I was not catering for QZ fans over sea, plus if they do not know who David Cameron is then they are pretty dense people. But yeah Real wizard seems to think he can shoot down into flames people posts on here which is very nasty. He looks down his nose and a sarcastic comment is guaranteed! |
| brENsKi 26.07.2014 08:22 |
gerry wrote: I was not catering for QZ fans over sea,but The Real Wizard is overseas...and it was HE that you directed this at:- gerry wrote: gerry wrote:Real wizard: yeah you are like a politician in that you do not know what the hell you are talking about most of the time and you have something in common with David Cameron, you have your head where the sun dont shine mate. that's my point. It's no wonder people get shirty with you, when you can't even follow a simple thread. |
| GERRYISADICK 26.07.2014 09:10 |
Gerry you seem very nasty at times so please calm down we are all friends here. |
| gerry 26.07.2014 11:24 |
I had no idea that Real Wizard is overseas, but best place for him. i am not a nasty person but i will NOT have people like that be sarcastic towards me. i am sure you would just do the same as me if somebody was sarcastic to you lot! Jefffab: You say we all friends here, so why was Real Wizard nasty to Apocalipsis_Darko then? Even he or she pointed out that real wizard is always aggressive and nasty, and this has to be stamped out of this site by angry people like that. |
| GERRYISADICK 26.07.2014 11:27 |
It's banter asshole! |
| gerry 26.07.2014 11:34 |
please dont call me an asshole, because unlike you i was brought up and not dragged up. That is not been friendly is it? |
| GERRYISADICK 26.07.2014 11:44 |
Oh im sorry friend let me be nice . F U C K O F F |
| gerry 26.07.2014 11:52 |
its ok youve only showed everybody on here what a complete knob and parasite you really are! wish you could say that to my face matey, i wish, |
| GERRYISADICK 26.07.2014 11:56 |
Arr matey im sorry. |
| GERRYISADICK 26.07.2014 12:01 |
But seriously im sorry man im a bit on edge today sorry about my behavior im the one at fault here |
| gerry 26.07.2014 12:02 |
You should sign up for ch5 "Big Brother" then you can be as obnoxious as you want dear! |
| GERRYISADICK 26.07.2014 12:04 |
Ok thanks for the suggestion sir |
| gerry 26.07.2014 12:05 |
pleasure dude! |
| GERRYISADICK 26.07.2014 12:06 |
Have a nice day man! |
| gerry 26.07.2014 12:15 |
oh i will cos freddies sending me a gift in october, its called "Queen forever! l.o.l |
| inu-liger 26.07.2014 21:04 |
Gerry, you are a nasty asshole, plain and simple. How many more posters coming out against you is it going to have to take for you to realize YOU have personality & human relation problems?? |
| rocknrolllover 27.07.2014 00:39 |
inu-liger wrote: Gerry, you are a nasty asshole, plain and simple. How many more posters coming out against you is it going to have to take for you to realize YOU have personality & human relation problems??You are natural jackass, Inu. Remember it. |
| Queenfanrach 27.07.2014 02:01 |
Here we go with the Mary hate and Jim was treated badly Freddie left Jim half a million pounds and he had already given him the money to build a house in Ireland, Jim wasn't left with nothing Freddie left Mary his house because he wanted to and knew he could trust her with it |
| Queenfanrach 27.07.2014 02:05 |
Also a couple of years ago Mary was in the Sunday rimes rich list as an inheritor She's also been married for nearly 20 years |
| inu-liger 27.07.2014 03:16 |
rocknrolllover wrote:The difference between myself versus you and Gerry is that I actually CAN acknowledge openly when I'm being a jackass, you little bigot ;)inu-liger wrote: Gerry, you are a nasty asshole, plain and simple. How many more posters coming out against you is it going to have to take for you to realize YOU have personality & human relation problems??You are natural jackass, Inu. Remember it. |
| inu-liger 27.07.2014 03:17 |
Queenfanrach wrote: Also a couple of years ago Mary was in the Sunday rimes rich list as an inheritor She's also been married for nearly 20 yearsI thought she was divorced? |
| rocknrolllover 27.07.2014 03:49 |
inu-liger wrote:Feed your little monkeys, pal.rocknrolllover wrote:The difference between myself versus you and Gerry is that I actually CAN acknowledge openly when I'm being a jackass, you little bigot ;)inu-liger wrote: Gerry, you are a nasty asshole, plain and simple. How many more posters coming out against you is it going to have to take for you to realize YOU have personality & human relation problems??You are natural jackass, Inu. Remember it. |
| gerry 27.07.2014 04:43 |
inu-liger: why are you having at a go at me when if you can read, "real wizard" was nasty to somebody else, do you defend nastiness against good manners? i think you do, because something tells me that you also have an attitude problem and you come across as aggressive. Its very easy to hide behind your laptop and type all sorts of bullying, but i bet you would not say that to my face sunshine. you seem to defend your nasty pals on here but i am not bothered because its water of a ducks back with me, after all your nobody to me so go ahead be an obnoxious cu**t make a fool of yourself ha ha ! |
| BETA215 27.07.2014 04:47 |
Too much off-topic! Too much off-topic! Go back to your sits! This thread is going like this! link We can be all nice and cool but you have to give up sometimes! *cough* rocknrolllover *cough* |
| gerry 27.07.2014 04:51 |
Beta215: yeah these gremlins have to be put in there places instead of getting away with treating folk like idiots. how dare people like inu-liger have a go at me, jumped up knob head. |
| gerry 27.07.2014 05:09 |
yeah people like that deserves to be treated with the contempt that they so richly deserve! All i have to say is treat people with respect the way you wish to be treated. If i am nasty it is only because people have been nasty or sarcastic to me, so thats a fair deal isnt it! one thing i am not and that is a mug! They wont get away with calling me petty names. i do hope they is some decent Queen fans on here because the ones i have seen on here are pretty minging people. |
| inu-liger 27.07.2014 05:31 |
gerry wrote:but i bet you would not say that to my face sunshine.Wanna bet? you seem to defend your nasty pals on here but i am not bothered because its water of a ducks back with me, after all your nobody to me so go ahead be an obnoxious cu**t make a fool of yourself ha ha !WIth the way you're responding, I'm not inclined to believe this is totally water off your back when you're also posting things like "They wont get away with calling me petty names" which says otherwise. Perhaps you should look up the meaning of that phrase before using it only to have it conflict with your actions afterward: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=water%20off%20a%20duck%27s%20back An insult that rolls off you like water off a duck's back is one that is ignored. |
| The Real Wizard 27.07.2014 06:07 |
I love how two pages of this thread are about me when they should be about Freddie Mercury. As they say, no publicity is bad publicity. Star power ftw. |
| gerry 27.07.2014 06:10 |
i am not bothered by your name calling, i am a 50 year old man, and not a petty kid like you, that is why i will not be spoken down too, like what you were doing to me. i am old enough to be your dad! o.m.g that would be un-bearable! |
| brENsKi 27.07.2014 06:14 |
gerry wrote:you seem to defend your nasty pals on here but i am not bothered because its water of a ducks back with me, after all your nobody to me so go ahead be an obnoxious cu**tGerry, I tried to help you with your geographically-challenged insults earlier in this thread. Seems my help went way over your head, because now you're having serious spelling issues with your insults. None of the words i could find as typed by you above: C U * * T were actual insults per se. still, if you'd care to enlighten us, which of the below were YOU calling inu-liger? CUBIT CULET CURET or CURST |
| gerry 27.07.2014 06:22 |
well i am very sorry if you enjoy playing teacher and checking spelling mistakes, better take that red star away from me then eh! why is it when others on here get nasty nobody says a word then when i defend myself everybody is accusing me of been nasty? go back a page or two and see " The real wizard" having a go at someone, but nobody picked up on that only me, hence thats why i had to say something. i think you know what word i was typing for inu-liger so dont play all coy with me thank you very much! |
| inu-liger 27.07.2014 06:34 |
gerry wrote:i am not bothered by your name callingYet you don't have a problem hurling similar (if not worse) insults to other people. Hypocrite. i am a 50 year old man, and not a petty kid like youAdvanced age does not automatically free you of criticism for acting petty yourself, old man. that is why i will not be spoken down too, like what you were doing to me.Tough shit. I don't back down from talking down assholes regardless of their age. You treat people like dicks, expect to be treated like one. i am old enough to be your dad! o.m.g that would be un-bearable!You'd be a terrible father based on your behaviour shown here thus far, never mind embarrassing. I just hope that if you DO have kids IRL, your asshole qualities are limited to just your online persona. Just sayin' |
| gerry 27.07.2014 06:41 |
ha ha thank god you re not my son inu-liger because i would be ashamed of your behaviour towards older people, you are a nasty piece of work with a bad attitude and quite frankly i can tell that you have had a poor up-bringing. do you have a dad then, or are you a bastard? |
| inu-liger 27.07.2014 06:52 |
gerry wrote:you are a nasty piece of work with a bad attitudeWhat a shame. Several QZ'ers who've met me can attest otherwise, I actually am a very nice guy for the most part. I just have a very limited amount of patience when it comes to pricks like you however. and quite frankly i can tell that you have had a poor up-bringing.You think so eh, armchair psychologist? do you have a dad then, or are you a bastard?That's for my real friends to know, and for you to guess ;) |
| inu-liger 27.07.2014 06:57 |
Anyways, fuck whatever Gerry says, let's get back to our regular topical programming, shall we? |
| gerry 27.07.2014 07:06 |
fuck whatever you say jumped up little prick you are. thank god you are not my son otherwise a slap or two would knock some fuckin sense into you m8 |
| inu-liger 27.07.2014 07:14 |
Your spelling and grammar equally needs a good slap. You're from the homeland of the English language, for Christ's sake. |
| inu-liger 27.07.2014 07:17 |
Going back to the on-topic side of things, I think this is a very fair assessment at this point: This topic has certainly lived up to it's song title! |
| gerry 27.07.2014 07:17 |
petty petty pettty little boy! always has to insult ones grammer, saddo! |
| Donna13 27.07.2014 08:46 |
Why are there so many fights going on lately? One person cannot start a fight. And the same few are involved each time, it seems. We should have a forum called the Personal Insult forum, where whole chunks of threads could be moved to. If anyone here is interacting with trolls and interrupting threads to do so, or trading insults for pages, then they are also in violation of Richard's standards and should be reported to YV. I don't think YV has time to monitor this board. That's why we are supposed to monitor ourselves. I don't think that means that some of us act like police, but I think it does mean that we all have to monitor the decency and accuracy of our own posts. I think we should not make any insults regarding age, gender, country, culture, intelligence, race, sexual orientation, or whether a person was raised with a father present. None of these things can be controlled by a person, so this is all hitting below the belt (I think that is a boxing term). |
| brENsKi 27.07.2014 09:48 |
gerry wrote: well i am very sorry if you enjoy playing teacher and checking spelling mistakes, better take that red star away from me then eh!it's a GOLD STAR for good work, and a RED X for mistakes...sounds like your schoolwork was covered in RED. gerry wrote: why is it when others on here get nasty nobody says a word then when i defend myself everybody is accusing me of been nasty?i hope you're not accusing me of being nasty (in this thread) as i've deliberately NOT waded in. If anything I've avoided confrontation with you this time around...it's someone else's spat. gerry wrote: i think you know what word i was typing for inu-liger so dont play all coy with me thank you very much! gerry wrote: petty petty pettty little boy! always has to insult ones grammer, saddo!(this last comment directed at Inu-liger.) Point is Gerry - i remember you saying a few months back how you'd make a good journalist. well apart from being able to write journalists should also be able to use correct spelling, diction and grammer (sic). N.B. - btw "journo" it's grammAr |
| gerry 27.07.2014 10:36 |
They you go again pulling me up about grammer. sometimes i do not always get it right because i am that annoyed with the idiots on here that my keypad does not contact properly so it looks to all on here that i can not spell. But..... as usual you all have to score points slagging me off, well do your damn best because its only what i expect of yous lot on here. your a bitchy sad group of people who deserve your own island so you can bitch bitch and bitch. |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 10:38 |
gerry shut up you cray cray motherfucker |
| gerry 27.07.2014 10:44 |
get back under your stone (jeffab1995) you sad minger & keep your beak out of my business. |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 10:52 |
Hey brit man we kicked your ass in 1776 |
| gerry 27.07.2014 10:55 |
Hey i am British and proud mate just like Queen! Trust you to mention violence, silly little man! |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 10:56 |
USA USA USA FUCK the royal family |
| gerry 27.07.2014 10:58 |
wasnt talking about the royal family you nonce i was talking about Queen that amazing rock group, hello hello are you awake???? |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 10:59 |
Whatever shut the fuck up gerry you idiotic british asshole |
| gerry 27.07.2014 11:01 |
such a friendly crowd here on the Queenzone! and what have you got to be proud about then ? |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 11:02 |
Monster trucks beer strip clubs football and guns murica fuck yeah! |
| gerry 27.07.2014 11:04 |
such an extravagant life you lead dear! |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 11:05 |
Yes and i got the best army in da world |
| gerry 27.07.2014 11:07 |
really, and how many have you shagged then l.o.l |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 11:08 |
Shagged? Explain |
| gerry 27.07.2014 11:10 |
That says it all - what nationality are you ? |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 11:10 |
Canada |
| gerry 27.07.2014 11:12 |
so are all canadians as hostile as you then? you come across very aggressive! |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 11:14 |
I am kinda drunk |
| gerry 27.07.2014 11:15 |
ah right, well get back to me tomorrow when your sober and blow me a kiss l.o.l |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 11:16 |
Ok darling sorry i was a dick |
| gerry 27.07.2014 11:17 |
ok no prob. |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 11:22 |
I love you gerry |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 12:14 |
Gerry i drank 4 cups of coffee ive sobered up.lets go man |
| brENsKi 27.07.2014 12:31 |
gerry wrote: They you go again pulling me up about grammer. sometimes i do not always get it right because i am that annoyed with the idiots on here that my keypad does not contact properly so it looks to all on here that i can not spell. But..... as usual you all have to score points slagging me off, well do your damn best because its only what i expect of yous lot on here. your a bitchy sad group of people who deserve your own island so you can bitch bitch and bitch. 2 out of 10 - there's at least SEVEN obvious mistakes there...one of which i amended for you an hour ago....so not only can YOU not spell, YOU also can't read... I was wrong you could be a journo - working for the Daily Star or some other quality chip-paper |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 12:32 |
Oh brenski burn bitch |
| brENsKi 27.07.2014 12:35 |
Jefffab1995 wrote: (Posted: 27 Jul 14, 11:10) Canada gerry wrote: (Posted: 27 Jul 14, 11:10) That says it all - what nationality are you ?hahahahahahaha - bright as a button - as ever Gerry. |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 12:47 |
I am from georgia |
| gerry 27.07.2014 13:27 |
Brenski: you are the Qz version of katie hopkins, always nit picking and slagging me off, you must have such a sad life, poor little prick! |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 13:29 |
Gerry you are going a bit far biotch |
| gerry 27.07.2014 13:38 |
Can not stand tossers and oh boy theres loads on this site! |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 13:43 |
Want me to be nice? |
| The Real Wizard 27.07.2014 13:50 |
Jefffab1995 wrote: Hey brit man we kicked your ass in 1776And we kicked your ass in 1814 ;) |
| gerry 27.07.2014 13:51 |
i was hinting about: The Real Wizard, Brenski, inu-liger, they are the most disgusting 3 people on this site and so self centred that they think there comments matter the most, and other folks comments get blown out of the water, as long as they are right all the time. They take the tosser to a whole new level. |
| The Real Wizard 27.07.2014 13:56 |
gerry wrote: that they think there comments matter the mostNot the most, but certainly more than yours. Being able to a) think, and b) properly construct a sentence are good first steps in achieving that. |
| brENsKi 27.07.2014 14:01 |
gerry wrote: i was hinting about: The Real Wizard, Brenski, inu-liger, they are the most disgusting 3 people on this site and so self centred that they think there comments matter the most, and other folks comments get blown out of the water, as long as they are right all the time. They take the tosser to a whole new level.so now you've roped me back into the "tosser fold"? amazing when only a few pages ago you were discussing things civilly with me. Funny isn't it that someone says something YOU don't like and you go nuclear. there's a very simple solution Gezza, learn to spell, and learn to use grammAr and diction correctly. You make it far too difficult for everyone else - your behaviour skirts the boundary marker dividing "obnoxious" and "angry"....whereby for any decent person it's almost impossible to not fire back at you....only thing wrong with this? - for me it's like shooting fish in a barrel - extremely easy but very boring. So if you don't mind, I'll withdraw and take my "grammar shotgun" with me. |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 14:05 |
Gerry has a small dick |
| The Real Wizard 27.07.2014 14:15 |
Jefffab1995 wrote: Gerry has a small dickFor fuck's sake - you're just as bad as he is now. Stop this madness, all of you. This looks like a grade school playground, not a music forum. |
| gerry 27.07.2014 14:18 |
see mr. wizard you dont like getting a taste of your own shitty medicine back do you, so for fucks sake stop dishing it out. |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 14:19 |
Small dick small dick |
| gerry 27.07.2014 14:19 |
The only dick round here is jefffab1995! |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 14:20 |
Why thank you dear! |
| gerry 27.07.2014 14:22 |
lets see if yous lot can make it to page 10 of adulterated bitchiness, I will let Brenski go first as he loves been a twat. |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 14:23 |
I fuckin love that guy! |
| gerry 27.07.2014 14:30 |
Yeah but fancy been with him 24/7 eh? do your head in man. |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 14:31 |
Huh brit say what |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 14:39 |
USA USA USA! |
| thomasquinn 32989 27.07.2014 15:53 |
Sounds like Gerry needs a stiff drink, a dose of dope and, most of all, to grow a fucking backbone and learn to live with the fact that his opinions aren't infallible. Get a life and stop being such a damned fundamentalist. You treat liking Queen as if it were a religion - there is a term for that: mental illness. |
| inu-liger 27.07.2014 16:05 |
Ding ^ |
| BETA215 27.07.2014 16:08 |
The best thing is that the users are attacking nicknames and the users take it personally! If somebody close the thread, but not hide, would be excellent. |
| The Real Wizard 27.07.2014 16:15 |
gerry wrote: see mr. wizard you dont like getting a taste of your own shitty medicine back do you, so for fucks sake stop dishing it out.The fact that you can't see the difference between intelligence and stupidity is just ... sad. |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 16:16 |
Go wiz go |
| brENsKi 27.07.2014 16:21 |
Jefffab1995 wrote: Go wiz goyou seem to have an inexhaustible supply of petrol to keep lobbing at this fire |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 16:26 |
Yeah im having a good day |
| Tlr 27.07.2014 16:36 |
Send in the Clowns is right. |
| Holly2003 27.07.2014 16:44 |
To be fair, you are a tosser so ... out of the mouths of fools, etc. :p :) ----------------------------------------------------------- brENsKi wrote:gerry wrote: i was hinting about: The Real Wizard, Brenski, inu-liger, they are the most disgusting 3 people on this site and so self centred that they think there comments matter the most, and other folks comments get blown out of the water, as long as they are right all the time. They take the tosser to a whole new level.so now you've roped me back into the "tosser fold"? amazing when only a few pages ago you were discussing things civilly with me. Funny isn't it that someone says something YOU don't like and you go nuclear. there's a very simple solution Gezza, learn to spell, and learn to use grammAr and diction correctly. You make it far too difficult for everyone else - your behaviour skirts the boundary marker dividing "obnoxious" and "angry"....whereby for any decent person it's almost impossible to not fire back at you....only thing wrong with this? - for me it's like shooting fish in a barrel - extremely easy but very boring. So if you don't mind, I'll withdraw and take my "grammar shotgun" with me. |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 16:47 |
Fuck you holly |
| Holly2003 27.07.2014 16:48 |
What position? |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 16:51 |
I respect you for that unfuck you holly |
| Holly2003 27.07.2014 16:57 |
Too late now. I'm on a promise... |
| The Real Wizard 27.07.2014 17:12 |
Tlr wrote: Send in the Clowns is right.Ha ha ! And there we have the final word, lost on those who need to hear it most. |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 17:12 |
What promise biotch |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 17:19 |
Hey wizard you a cool mofo |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 17:29 |
Where is everyone? |
| GERRYISADICK 27.07.2014 17:31 |
Alright this topic is officially dead! |
| Costa86 28.07.2014 05:37 |
It upsets me that everything on this board has to always descend into unpleasantness. |
| Toon_86 28.07.2014 05:52 |
Is that Jeffa chap, Costa dude and the Russian bloke the same woman? What a stupid, obnoxious and immature debate. This started as a decent question with a real purpose. I personally would've much rather listened to JSS's stories about getting the tape than the pointless crap that has now gone on for 10 pages. QZ is almost dead. |
| GERRYISADICK 28.07.2014 07:00 |
Hey i am a man and not related to the russian |
| GERRYISADICK 28.07.2014 07:02 |
And besides this thread is dead it is a cesspool if idiocy so im going to old yellar this thread |
| Wiley 28.07.2014 12:58 |
Ok, I'll bite. Gerry, this is an Internet forum. People will say shit to you. Some are just taking the piss (trolling), some may be genuinely assholes... but some also make valid points. It's Ok to disagree. You will not educate anybody by posting here nor you should feel like you need to expose them for what they "really" are. How a 50 year old can get sunk into this level of discussion I can't understand. Also, to longtime posters and respectable members... you know how it goes: DON'T. FEED. THE. TROLLS. |
| gerry 28.07.2014 13:19 |
wiley: Thanks for the advice buddy. i know its pathetic how a guy like me has been dragged to there levels on here but i do get very annoyed and disgusted by fellow fans who support my group as well. I only use this site because of my love of Queen, i do not want to get into spats with people, but there again i do not want people using me or making me look a fool, but yeah lack of respect on here by all kind of weirdos. Still i am glad i was brought up and not dragged up like a few on here. sure the likes of Brenski, inu-liger, The real wizard, all take the piss and try to bring me down, but they will never do this because i wont back down, i am clever too. |
| kosimodo 28.07.2014 14:32 |
I am with toon86. Why did Jim sell those tapes? Was he in need of money? So why not ebay? Did he trust jss to give the music to the rest of the world? Why didnt he? If it was supposed to stay private, why was it shared? Is there more? |
| GERRYISADICK 28.07.2014 14:37 |
Yeah sorry gerry I was out of control and i am sorry but you know what you and i both can have opinions right? |
| AlbaNo1 28.07.2014 15:04 |
Wrong |
| GERRYISADICK 28.07.2014 15:07 |
AlbaNo1 you are right but im trying to make peace with him! |
| zippo112 28.07.2014 17:11 |
this is the 200-th reply:)))) whats the subject now? |
| GERRYISADICK 28.07.2014 17:25 |
How great you are! |
| gerry 29.07.2014 07:08 |
Brenski: you are the one always picking faults with my posts and slagging me off because of my "so called" grammer, so you deserve the bullet in the head for been such a rude prat. If you do not like what i write on here, then keep your big nosey beak out of my business. now get lost. i really have had enough of your shit mate. |
| thomasquinn 32989 29.07.2014 10:47 |
The irony that by far the most excessively rude person in this discussion, with the possible exception of myself, is YOU did not strike you when writing that post? You are by far the greatest contributor of swear-words (although regrettably unimaginative ones - and 'nosey beak' is just plain ugly, style-wise) to this discussion, you are constantly "slagging off" others and telling them to "shut up", "get lost", etc. And you're supposed to be a mature, middle-aged adult who is "clever too"? Alright, then act like it, you unseemly product of the unholy congress between a half-crazed ant-eater and an inbred Visigoth (see? that's a creative form of abuse). |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 11:36 |
Thomas Quinn greetings sir! |
| gerry 29.07.2014 11:36 |
Thomasquinn: i have had personal abuse on here for a long time now and you do not understand that i do not attack anyone for no reason at all. read past posts and see how they pick faults out of my posts and you call me immature?? yes i use swear words because i am fed up of all the constant bickering from the same people at me day in day out, Brenski, inu-liger, Real wizard and now you. Those people have been very rude to me first, but you do not slag them off do you?? i am a nice guy but i wont stand for rudeness towards me, and it is my insatiable right to be treated with respect on this site like everybody else. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 11:47 |
gerry let's settle this without an arguement |
| gerry 29.07.2014 11:53 |
i come on here for my love of Queen and you think i want to argue all the time, of course not, i just want to discuss Queen related items like everybody else. |
| thomasquinn 32989 29.07.2014 11:54 |
I take it you mean inalienable when you write insatiable? A Freudian slip perhaps, and very telling at that. I don't doubt that you honestly believe what you write about not picking fights and being a nice guy, but reality differs. You take any difference of opinion anyone has with you as a personal attack, and you come across as forcing your opinion on others. When literally dozens of people on a forum notice the same flaw in you, you might want to consider looking into it and seeing whether there isn't perhaps some truth in it. Spoiler: there is. You may not mean bad, but you are extremely pugnacious and very easily inflamed. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 11:55 |
Ok this is an arguement |
| gerry 29.07.2014 11:59 |
It need not be an argument if folk on here stop been nasty towards me, in particular Brenski who takes the piss out of my so called " Bad grammer" he really gets on my nerves. He is the main trouble maker here not me. |
| kosimodo 29.07.2014 12:00 |
Still wondering why Jim solled that supposed personal tape. Money? |
| thomasquinn 32989 29.07.2014 12:03 |
Yes, people need to stop being nasty to you. But if you want that to happen, YOU must also stop being nasty to other people. Like I said, you have a tendency to burst into a bloody rage at the least provocation. That's not just unpleasant for us, but also for you, not to mention unhealthy. Like you say, people and things "get on [your] nerves" rather quickly. That may partially be their fault, but not wholly so. |
| gerry 29.07.2014 12:08 |
As i said i am perfectly well mannered until someone has a pop at me. Tell me if someone insulted you day in day out would you end up getting hacked off? They are a bad bunch on here with absolutely no manners what so ever! We all have different views on certain topics, but it is they who decide that i am wrong, they never look at there own faults? |
| thomasquinn 32989 29.07.2014 12:29 |
Neither do you. I'm going to stop this conversation here, because this is getting nowhere - you flat-out refuse to see that you are just as complicit in this as anybody. I would have expected better of someone with as much life's experience. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 12:31 |
Okay this thread is DEAD no one post ! |
| gerry 29.07.2014 12:34 |
Age has nothing to do with it, as everybody should be respectful to each other on here. i am not a fault here and i will not be treated unfairly by these stupid childish people on here. That is all i have to say. Matter closed. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 12:37 |
Ok im killing this thread |
| gerry 29.07.2014 12:37 |
Lets chat about Queen! |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 12:43 |
Ok hot space |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 12:47 |
Good album or not? |
| gerry 29.07.2014 12:50 |
Hot Space was not favoured by everyone but i kind of like it, because in a way Queen got out of there comfort zone and took a chance with styles they had not done before. I love all the songs on that album. Not so keen on innuendo or made in heaven though. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 12:53 |
Disco sucks so does hot space |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 12:55 |
And innuendo you heartless bastard after everything freddie went through to make those songs you disgust me! |
| gerry 29.07.2014 12:55 |
well there was some guitar pieces in there from Brian, like in "Dancer" and "put out the fire" |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 12:56 |
Disco SUCKS! |
| gerry 29.07.2014 12:58 |
Not been heartless mate, i just do not like the tunes, it was not Queen at there very best. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 12:59 |
Do you hate show must go on mother love these are the days of our lives? |
| gerry 29.07.2014 13:00 |
I do not have to like an album because someone is ill. The last greatest Queen album in my opinion was "The Works" album. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 13:01 |
You are an insult to freddies memory! |
| gerry 29.07.2014 13:01 |
The show must go on is a great song, not so keen on Mother love or days of our lives as they are too sad to listen too. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 13:03 |
But those are his finest hours when even he was to sick he sung wonderfully |
| gerry 29.07.2014 13:06 |
yes his vocals were amazing but the songs were awful. he did say to Brian give me anything to sing and you can tell Brian did! what do you think of adam lambert then? |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 13:08 |
He is better than paul rodgers Frankly anybody is! |
| gerry 29.07.2014 13:11 |
Paul Rodgers has a more rock orientated voice that adam lambert and in my opinion more of a true talent than adam lambert. lambert makes Queen look trashy. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 13:11 |
I can barely decipher what he fucking sings ! |
| gerry 29.07.2014 13:13 |
paul was great in his Bad company /Free groups in the 70s. Freddie adored him. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 13:14 |
Prove that! |
| gerry 29.07.2014 13:16 |
Brian always mentioned that when he and rodgers were on tour to the press. Freddie was always listening to Free, Hendrix, Lennon. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 13:17 |
Nevertheless he was not what queen needed. |
| gerry 29.07.2014 13:19 |
neither is lambert he is truly awful. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 13:20 |
At least i can understand the lyrics when he sings! |
| thomasquinn 32989 29.07.2014 13:20 |
The Works and Hot Space better than Innuendo? Seriously? I cannot see that, even putting considerations of personal preference aside. If you like the Queen-sound, which I assume you do, I can't see what would tick you off about Innuendo. Sure, it could have used better production in some places, but songwriting and playing are excellent! Hot Space, on the other hand, sounds so bland throughout, like they had already given up on it halfway through the writing-stage. I think that Hot Space and The Works could be made into one good album, but half of both are filler. |
| gerry 29.07.2014 13:21 |
maybe but he does not deliver Queen songs the way Freddie used to do it. No one can do Queens music justice only Freddie. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 13:22 |
Yes it was the best songwriting since the seventies. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 13:23 |
Gerry do you want brian and roger to stop performing because freddie died? |
| thomasquinn 32989 29.07.2014 13:25 |
It was more consistent, at any rate. There are definite highlights on all '80s albums, but they contained much more filler than the '70s work. Innuendo on the other hand contained very little filler IMHO, but in many ways that goes for The Miracle too. I do think Innuendo is leagues better than The Miracle, but that is simply a point of opinion. By more or less objective Queen-standards, though, The Miracle and Innuendo are far superior to Hot Space, The Works and A Kind Of Magic. |
| gerry 29.07.2014 13:26 |
Thomasquinn: I dislike innuendo simply because it sounds so strained and there is no fun it, i do however like " all gods people" as its brashy with lots of trade mark opera type vocals and lashings of guitars and cymbals going on and Im going slightly mad is a great track along with Headlong but thats it really. |
| gerry 29.07.2014 13:26 |
Thomasquinn: I dislike innuendo simply because it sounds so strained and there is no fun it, i do however like " all gods people" as its brashy with lots of trade mark opera type vocals and lashings of guitars and cymbals going on and Im going slightly mad is a great track along with Headlong but thats it really. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 13:29 |
FUN? Do you think they would be able to have FUN! |
| gerry 29.07.2014 13:30 |
It really is down to personal opinion at the end of the day. i have no fault with Queens back catalogue apart from innuendo & Made in Heaven, where i feel track 13 was a waste of space, when something more worthy with freddie could have been used. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 13:32 |
But really your excuse is fun? Freddie was dying brian was depressed roger and john were lost they stopped having fun after the magic tour. |
| gerry 29.07.2014 13:32 |
jefffab: check out Queens JAZZ album they were having loads of fun on that album and you could feel it! |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 13:34 |
Thats not the point how could they have fun when freddie was fucking dying! |
| thomasquinn 32989 29.07.2014 13:34 |
Ok, I see my views are diametrically opposed to yours. I guess you consider music as primarily revolving around vocals? I prefer the instrumental aspect of music myself. Still, if that is the case, on the basis of that fact and your remarks about the "fun" sound, it seems it's really the production sound of Hot Space you prefer over that of Innuendo, not the actual songs or albums. |
| gerry 29.07.2014 13:34 |
When i say fun i mean enjoying making the songs, and getting enjoyment out of them. innuendo sounded pretty depressing, and you could feel death was lingering especially in the innuendo track. |
| gerry 29.07.2014 13:35 |
not at at all, i love Queen as a unit to make happy songs like Dont stop me now, or Your my best friend. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 13:36 |
gerry why would it not? |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 13:40 |
Now the question is still how can four people have fun when one is dying and the others are unsure of their future! Fun was impossible in the innuendo sessions. |
| gerry 29.07.2014 13:41 |
because by the time Queen recorded innuendo there sound had turned very serious and sad, yes we know fred was ill and maybe the song writing abilities were flagging and no one felt happy but the atmosphere of innuendo was not good for me. when you think 4 years earlier A kind of magic was massive all over europe and Queen had some great tunes on that album A kind of magic, Friends will be friends, Who wants to live forever, One vision ......... |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 13:43 |
NO freddie and brian illness or not were wonderful songwriters from queen I to innuendo |
| gerry 29.07.2014 13:43 |
That is my point Queen were not having fun at that point hence that is why innuendo sounded so sad and desperate. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 13:44 |
Would you be sad if your best friend was dying? |
| gerry 29.07.2014 13:45 |
so what about the made in heaven album then? what is your opinion on that? |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 13:46 |
It was up until now a perfect ending to the queen story. |
| gerry 29.07.2014 13:46 |
yes my best friend died 2 years ago. but the music didnt have to be so morose. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 13:49 |
Once again freddie is DYING |
| gerry 29.07.2014 13:49 |
well there was the odd good track on made in heaven "I was born to love you" and "Made in heaven" The rest of the album was a bit boring. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 13:50 |
Really the last songs at the end of freddies life are boring? A dying mans final works are boring |
| gerry 29.07.2014 13:52 |
freddie didnt care what he was singing towards his last days, sure his vocals were superb but the tunes of the songs were not classic Queen. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 13:56 |
He did care he wanted to give us his best even when he was so ill |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 13:57 |
Besides those songs are his legacy he would not dare ruin those! |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 13:59 |
Another thing queen II a night at the opera innuendo and made in heaven are queens best. |
| gerry 29.07.2014 14:00 |
i know he worked his socks off and that was amazing considering what pain he must have been experiencing. just that the songs Brian and Roger were giving freddie were not great. "you dont fool me", was truly awful. And "Mother love" was very painful to listen too without filling up! How many radio stations actually play tracks from Innuendo or Made in Heaven albums?? Answer none these days. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 14:02 |
I can understand you dont fool me but Mother love really? Its hard to listen because its his last song he ever sang 6 months before he died the sheer power and emotion of it does that not bad writing |
| gerry 29.07.2014 14:02 |
There was a poll by Classic Rock Magazine asking what was peoples fav Queen album and Queen2 came out tops followed by A night at the opera, and innuendo and made in heaven were at the bottom! |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 14:03 |
Really? |
| gerry 29.07.2014 14:05 |
Mother love sounds so black and dark, and it is filled with dread of death from a man who knows it wont be long. it was very painful listening to it from a man who once was filled with so much life and sense of humour. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 14:06 |
Really do you want freddies last track to be peppy happy im so happy songs ? |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 14:08 |
An answer to a previous question since ive became a queen fan ive heard headlong a few times on the radio |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 14:13 |
Gerry question if innuendo was fun as you call it would you like it? |
| The Real Wizard 29.07.2014 16:57 |
gerry wrote: There was a poll by Classic Rock Magazine asking what was peoples fav Queen album and Queen2 came out tops followed by A night at the opera, and innuendo and made in heaven were at the bottom!Really ? I'd like to see this poll. Made In Heaven is by far the best selling Queen album in the UK, and that's where this magazine is based. |
| The Real Wizard 29.07.2014 17:13 |
gerry wrote: the tunes of the songs were not classic Queen.The Show Must Go On isn't classic Queen? It's better than anything they did after Under Pressure. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 17:33 |
gerry name a track on hot space you love. |
| Gregsynth 29.07.2014 17:34 |
I like Hot Space (probably more than some people), but c'mon - Innuendo is the stronger album compared to it! |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 17:41 |
Its also hard to find anybody (besides gerry) who does not like innuendo or made in heaven . Or is gerry one of those who think queen died in the 80s |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 29.07.2014 19:01 |
I like Hot Space, The Works and A kind of magic, but Innuendo is their best album since the 70's.... |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 19:03 |
So gerry is the one person on this site who hates innuendo |
| The Real Wizard 29.07.2014 19:58 |
^ quite possibly. But hey, people are funny. My aunt likes Wings more than The Beatles. |
| BETA215 29.07.2014 20:00 |
I like all the Queen catalogue from Queen until Made In Heaven, but to me, the weakest points on the catalogue are Hot Space, The Works and A Kind Of Magic. I like that albums (probably more than some people) but Innuendo is better than the mentioned albums. Innuendo have better lyrics, better instrumental and more emotion. When I hear Innuendo, I don't think in AIDS, Freddie died, pain, sadness. The album isn't as bright as the rest of the albums, but beside that, to me is their best Queen album since the 70's. |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 20:09 |
You are right innuendo has the passion and great strength the earlier albums . And while yes made in heaven is different it served its purpose for 19 years to be the final chapter of the queen story |
| GERRYISADICK 29.07.2014 20:14 |
Wait! Do you think gerry likes body language? |
| gerry 30.07.2014 02:08 |
Ta dah! yes i love Body Language because its got a good tune to it sure it lacks Brians guitar but we have all the other Queen albums for that! As for " Real Wizard" picking faults out with my selection of Queen albums, we all have our own personal choice of likes and dislikes but hey, its still Queen! So after all the shitty posts Wizard has gave me, do yourself a favour and look what you have said, you have actually moaned because i like a different album to you! Personally when he said his mother prefers Wings to the Beatles, thats personal choice again, were all different with our OWN choices, get it? (probably not) but keep trying. |
| GERRYISADICK 30.07.2014 04:47 |
Gerry wow just wow! |
| gerry 30.07.2014 09:30 |
JEFFFAB1995: Thanks for at least having the intelligence to ask me my opinions of my favourite Queen albums as nobody on here has been as nice as you to ask me. Its great to just chat and not get any crap slagging my posts off like what Brenski does to look clever. |
| brENsKi 30.07.2014 10:37 |
gerry wrote:Its great to just chat and not get any crap slagging my posts off like what Brenski does to look clever.don't worry - I won't let you down Gezza. Here you go..... gerry wrote:Ta dah! yes i love Body Language because its got a good tune to it sure it lacks Brians guitar but we have all the other Queen albums for that!other albums? like Innuendo? Ta-da!!! gerry wrote: As for " Real Wizard" picking faults out with my selection of Queen albums, we all have our own personal choice of likes and dislikes but hey, its still Queen! So after all the shitty posts Wizard has gave me, do yourself a favour and look what you have said, you have actually moaned because i like a different album to you!he didn't pick fault, moan and it wasn't a shitty post. he said: The Real Wizard wrote: ^ quite possibly. But hey, people are funny. My aunt likes Wings more than The Beatles.which is a direct reference to the old saying "nowt as queer as folk" - meaning "it takes all sorts" ie everyone is different. the example he gave quite clearly demonstrated the fact that he recognizes that people can have different tastes - which is why there such is a thing as majority and minority. Otherwise we'd all be the same and that'd be dull. gerry wrote:Personally when he said his mother prefers Wings to the Beatles, thats personal choice again, were all different with our OWN choices, get it? (probably not) but keep trying.he didn't. he said AUNT. your attention span is severely lacking in something. If you intend to quote someone. get it right. |
| gerry 30.07.2014 11:15 |
Does it really matter if it was his aunt or mother? not your starting to get pathetic again, give a rest loser. |
| GERRYISADICK 30.07.2014 11:22 |
Yes it does! |
| gerry 30.07.2014 11:24 |
Real wizard: you are spouting off rubbish again, saying "Made in Heaven" is the uk's best selling Queen album well it is not, because Queens Greatest hits is the bands biggest selling album ever of over 6 million copies and counting. You also stated that "The show must go on" as the best thing Queen had done after under pressure which is bollocks, which means you have dissed gems like "Its a hard life" "Hammer to fall" "Radio ga ga" etc....All those songs beat everything on Innuendo hands down. "Delilah" was a total embarrassment on innuendo and certainly not memorable at all. Anything from "The Works" stands out more than "Innuendo" in my opinion. |
| GERRYISADICK 30.07.2014 11:25 |
Stop being angry at everyone we love queen question is do you? |
| gerry 30.07.2014 11:27 |
I am not angry buddy l.o.l |
| GERRYISADICK 30.07.2014 11:33 |
Oh you missed your prostate exam? |
| gerry 30.07.2014 11:54 |
what are you going on about? l.o.l |
| GERRYISADICK 30.07.2014 11:59 |
You are OLD a wheezing decrepit windbag because your OLD! |
| gerry 30.07.2014 12:03 |
well it will come round for you pretty soon dude! l.o.l |
| gerry 30.07.2014 12:04 |
Dont forget Brian May is 67 Roger Taylor is 65! have some respect! |
| GERRYISADICK 30.07.2014 12:04 |
That's what Botox is for dear! |
| GERRYISADICK 30.07.2014 12:05 |
Brian and roger look great |
| gerry 30.07.2014 12:06 |
i dont need botox cos i look fresh as a daisy l.o.l |
| GERRYISADICK 30.07.2014 12:06 |
Or a horse neigh! |
| gerry 30.07.2014 12:07 |
yeah but you called me old and im younger than Bri & Roger! |
| GERRYISADICK 30.07.2014 12:09 |
Roger looks amazing and he still gets tail bri looks like my grandad |
| gerry 30.07.2014 12:12 |
well i think roger is ageing pretty fast. |
| GERRYISADICK 30.07.2014 12:13 |
He is still a womanizer! |
| GERRYISADICK 30.07.2014 12:16 |
Bri is very old like you! Except he still is cool |
| gerry 30.07.2014 12:37 |
your all heart dear! |
| GERRYISADICK 30.07.2014 12:42 |
Yes Im kind of a big deal |
| GERRYISADICK 30.07.2014 12:43 |
I also like puppies |
| GERRYISADICK 30.07.2014 12:43 |
And guns! |
| gerry 30.07.2014 12:46 |
YES I LIKE PUPPIES L.O.L NOT A PUSSY LOVER THOUGH L.O.L |
| GERRYISADICK 30.07.2014 12:47 |
Huh explain? |
| gerry 30.07.2014 12:48 |
go and get a glass of water l.o.l |
| GERRYISADICK 30.07.2014 12:49 |
No i got booze right next to me |
| GERRYISADICK 30.07.2014 12:51 |
Ok i did a shot what is it |
| gerry 30.07.2014 14:56 |
thought so! dont stop up too late! |
| GERRYISADICK 30.07.2014 15:14 |
Huh? |
| gerry 30.07.2014 15:15 |
Your Queened! |
| GERRYISADICK 30.07.2014 15:22 |
Huh is that slang? |
| gerry 30.07.2014 15:24 |
yeah slang for drunk |
| GERRYISADICK 30.07.2014 15:26 |
No im sober i took shots of ginger ale |
| inu-liger 30.07.2014 15:37 |
Seriously, can you guys take this off-topic nonsense elsewhere? I made a topic just for that purpose now: link This is the Serious Discussion subforum..."SERIOUS discussion on the greatest band in the land" |
| inu-liger 30.07.2014 15:39 |
Back to your regular topical programming folks... |
| inu-liger 30.07.2014 15:40 |
Any chance of getting these newly leaked Freddie tapes in FLAC? :P |
| GERRYISADICK 30.07.2014 15:41 |
Ok gerry lets fight in this new topic cmon bitch! |
| gerry 30.07.2014 15:56 |
inu-liger stop moaning you created the madness with your loony pals on here l.o.l |
| GERRYISADICK 30.07.2014 15:59 |
Dont disrespect my friend old man! |
| BETA215 30.07.2014 19:41 |
inu-liger wrote: Any chance of getting these newly leaked Freddie tapes in FLAC? :PYou can download the full tape in FLAC from the link Chief Mouse shows in the first pages. EDIT: Here you can download it: link |
| inu-liger 31.07.2014 03:09 |
Oh I missed that! Thanks BETA :) |
| thomasquinn 32989 31.07.2014 04:38 |
Well, this guy has SERIOUS taste issues, SERIOUS anger issues and a SERIOUS persecution complex... |
| inu-liger 31.07.2014 04:59 |
thomasquinn 32989 wrote:Well, this guy has SERIOUS taste issues, SERIOUS anger issues and a SERIOUS persecution complex...lol |
| brENsKi 31.07.2014 16:22 |
love the fact that the "Gezza/Jeffa" thread went to 17 bloody pages... angry loony and pee-brained-feck, shouting at pigeons and passers-by....fucking love it |
| GERRYISADICK 31.07.2014 16:23 |
Are you talking about me? |
| Sebastian 01.08.2014 03:37 |
The Real Wizard wrote: The Show Must Go On isn't classic Queen?For the sake of argument, I want to reply to this one: I don't think TSMGO is classic Queen. Sure, it does have some of the classic traits, namely the vocal and guitar harmonies, but other than that, it would've been quite out of place on a seventies album considering: * It was recorded with a metronome. * It's got programmed drums alongside the acoustic ones. * It lacks a 'live' backing track. * There's no piano or acoustic guitar. * Drums are set up, tuned and mixed very differently. * It's synth-based. * Lyrics aren't fairy tale thingies or straightforward love songs. Now, I don't mean *every* song in the 70's had those aspects, but those were part of the 'classic' Queen sound. TSMGO, and the Innuendo album as a whole (with some exceptions) was not a return to the 'classic' Queen at all IMO. It was more of an evolution of the 'new' Queen including a bit more emphasis on the aspects that survived all the changes and experiments, namely the anthem-like vocals (of which there are examples on every single album), the sonic volcano of John and Roger, and the multi-tracked guitar harmonies. It's a marvellous song and probably a top 10 of their catalogue, but in terms of being 'classic' Queen it's not even top 50 IMO, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. The Real Wizard wrote: It's better than anything they did after Under Pressure.That's quite subjective. I personally rate WIAWI higher, but they're both marvellous anyway. By the way, I would consider WIAWI to be closer to 'classic' Queen than TSMGO despite the synths (but they've both got loads of synths anyway). |
| thomasquinn 32989 01.08.2014 04:22 |
Your lyrics-criticism aside, those are all production and arrangement points, not compositional. I think you are wrong in considering the production a vital part of what makes Queen-songs Queen-songs. They're not ABBA, ffs. |
| Stelios 01.08.2014 07:06 |
Well, reading most of these posts one thing is for sure. Queen funs are passionate people. Freddie would have been proud! |
| Holly2003 01.08.2014 08:02 |
I have to agree. It's one thing to measure the differences and similarities between two things, but you also need to weigh up which of those things are important and which aren't. The fact that it doesn't have an acoustic guitar for example is, imo, irrelevant. TSMGO has that "classic Queen" sound because it is ambitious, dramatic and multi-layered -- which are the main things I equate with the classic Queen period. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- thomasquinn 32989 wrote: Your lyrics-criticism aside, those are all production and arrangement points, not compositional. I think you are wrong in considering the production a vital part of what makes Queen-songs Queen-songs. They're not ABBA, ffs. |
| Vocal harmony 01.08.2014 10:58 |
Sebastian wrote: * It was recorded with a metronome. * It's got programmed drums alongside the acoustic ones. * It lacks a 'live' backing track. * There's no piano or acoustic guitar. * Drums are set up, tuned and mixed very differently. * It's synth-based. * Lyrics aren't fairy tale thingies or straightforward love songs.So using this list as a guide we can deduce that nothing recorded after 1979 is classic Queen. Another thing that is worthy of note. In an interview in 1980 in International Musician RT gives a very descriptive account of the way he and Roy Thomas Baker used to construct drum loops on which the Bass and Rhythm guitars were recorded because that alway gave a perfect timed track to work too. In the interview he was saying that that is how most of Fun In Space was tracked too. Drum fills etc were added later. So does that mean that mean there are no classic Queen tracks according to the rules of the list |
| Sebastian 02.08.2014 15:57 |
Yeah, loops were used sometimes for the Jazz album, but in general, Queen in the 70s recorded without metronomes, that's easy to check and confirm. There's nothing wrong with a track not being 'classic' Queen, as it doesn't make it any better or worse than one that is. In compositional terms, 'Show Must Go On' is not too similar to 70's Queen tracks either. At least, not more so than the average 80's or 90's track. |
| John S Stuart 02.08.2014 20:26 |
Inu wrote: "Any chance of getting these newly leaked Freddie tapes in FLAC? :P" Sorry to be a wet blanket here; but a TRUE FLAC version has not been released. This is an MP3 "master" which was been converted back into FLAC and is therefore neither lossless or reliable. |
| thomasquinn 32989 03.08.2014 04:24 |
John S Stuart wrote: Inu wrote: "Any chance of getting these newly leaked Freddie tapes in FLAC? :P" Sorry to be a wet blanket here; but a TRUE FLAC version has not been released. This is an MP3 "master" which was been converted back into FLAC and is therefore neither lossless or reliable.John, do you have any idea of the recording date of this track and any related tracks? |
| Mr.QueenFan 03.08.2014 12:25 |
John S Stuart wrote: Inu wrote: "Any chance of getting these newly leaked Freddie tapes in FLAC? :P" Sorry to be a wet blanket here; but a TRUE FLAC version has not been released. This is an MP3 "master" which was been converted back into FLAC and is therefore neither lossless or reliable.That's what i thought. The files are too small for FLAC. Now that is shared, can you share the FLAC version of these songs John? Look, i feel embarassed to ask this, after witnessing what is going on not only on this topic, but in Queenzone in general. I can understand if you don't have the motivation to share it here, but i still had to ask. |
| John S Stuart 03.08.2014 17:02 |
Mr. Queen Fan: Give me a dropbox (or similar) address and I will send you a genuine FLAC version. |
| Caviar and Cigarettes 07.08.2014 16:50 |
Lets Just say everyone has different opinions and leave it at that. |
| Reid_Special_98 09.08.2014 13:08 |
I'm not convinced that this is Freddie. |
| thomasquinn 32989 09.08.2014 13:27 |
Reid_Special_98 wrote: I'm not convinced that this is Freddie.If JSS says it is, and he owns the recording, then you can take that to the bank. |
| Reid_Special_98 09.08.2014 13:40 |
To be fair - I have no doubt that JSS owns the recording but I simply do not believe that the person playing it is Freddie. I am always skeptical. I could say I have a tape of Brian May tuning his guitar ... but it could just be me tuning my guitar. |
| GERRYISADICK 09.08.2014 13:40 |
Nothing? |
| thomasquinn 32989 09.08.2014 15:17 |
Reid_Special_98 wrote: To be fair - I have no doubt that JSS owns the recording but I simply do not believe that the person playing it is Freddie. I am always skeptical. I could say I have a tape of Brian May tuning his guitar ... but it could just be me tuning my guitar.What reasonable grounds do you have for assuming it is NOT Freddie? |
| Reid_Special_98 09.08.2014 15:25 |
Simple answer: proof |
| Reid_Special_98 09.08.2014 15:37 |
Let me clarify my position. I have no reason to doubt JSS and his claim. Nor am I here to discredit his many years of expertise and dedication to the fandom of which we are all a part of. He has my respect - that is for sure. In saying that - I simply offer this discussion in the spirit of just that, with no malice or such hard feelings towards anybody. Is this a fine recording ? yes. No question. Is it interesting to listen to ? Yes. No question. Are we all grateful to be able to hear this nugget ? Yes. Absolutely. My standpoint for not being 100% convinced in this recording simply lies with the fact that a) the sheet music for Send In the Clowns is so readily available and as a result b) anybody with adequate training and competence in piano (myself included) could achieve similar results as is found in this recording. That is not to say I didn't enjoy the recording or the person so kind in offering this recording to share and hear - regardless of original source. I simply must ask the question, for purposes of discussion. Just my two cents. |
| inu-liger 10.08.2014 16:02 |
JSS bought it from Jim Hutton. What further provenance do you need? |
| John S Stuart 12.08.2014 07:14 |
Reid_Special_98 wrote: To be fair - I have no doubt that JSS owns the recording but I simply do not believe that the person playing it is Freddie. I am always skeptical. I could say I have a tape of Brian May tuning his guitar ... but it could just be me tuning my guitar.I agree with you because it is after all a fair question - so let me first answer with a rather stupid question... Q: How do you know who your father is? A: Because your mama told you so! but - "my mama told me so" is not evidence - it's hearsay only, and not worth the paper it is written on! But nowadays a more accurate test of paternity exists in the shape of DNA profiling; so unlike past generations - we now have a virtually fool-proof way of testing any such paternity claims. Similar DNA or profiling tests can also be applied to the works of writers, artists and musicians. So passing-off a fraudulent work (or a forgery) of another artist may have been easier in times of old, but now because of technical advances it impossible. So no more fake Mona Lisa's is the good news! Your guitar tuning example is a red herring because I cannot play the guitar but I can still tune one up and pretend it is Brian May because there would be virtually no Brian May "identifiers" to examine my claim, so it would be easy for me to hide behind this absence of "fingerprints". However this piano piece is extended and provides a wealth of scope to test for Freddie "identifiers" or "hallmarks" and both aural and "electrical spectrum" evidence suggest it is GENUINE because it has Freddie's "hallmarks" written all over it. You see it is not just a case of picking up a Red-special set-up and playing like Brian May. That does not make one a Brian May. Mental agility, physical dexterity, phrasing etc, etc are all naturally enshrined individualized subtleties which cannot be copied because in sum - (although others may SOUND like him) only Brian May can actually PLAY like Brian May. So even if the best Brian May impersonators could fool most of the people most of the time, they could still be exposed under a detailed analysis. My point is I agree with you. This could be a recording of Thierry Lang, Mike Moran or even Jim Hutton himself for all we know. However, when analytically compared against Freddie's oeuvre; this track (and the others on the tape) have all stood up to the scrutiny of time and no one has ever been able to say "This is not Freddie". Indeed the reverse is true. I am not an expert in this field. All I have to go on is Jim Hutton's word - which as you so correctly point out is hearsay. However, now this tape is publicly available anyone can have it analyzed in anyway they want; and what they will discover is that this is indeed Freddie - because at the end of the day - only Freddie could play like Freddie! |
| cmsdrums 12.08.2014 10:36 |
Get out of here John, with your common sense and reasoned argument!! :-) |
| thomasquinn 32989 12.08.2014 12:53 |
Don't really want to sound like a cynic here, but I think we can safely rule out Thierry Lang because, sorry, he's quite simply a better pianist than the person playing on this recording. It's a good performance, but by no means flawless. Just like Freddie was a good pianist, but not a virtuoso one. |
| Reid_Special_98 12.08.2014 15:49 |
Cheers and well said JSS. Thanks for the spirit of your reply. Again - the recording is quite interesting. Best regards all. |
| Sebastian 12.08.2014 17:42 |
thomasquinn 32989 wrote: Don't really want to sound like a cynic here, but I think we can safely rule out Thierry Lang because, sorry, he's quite simply a better pianist than the person playing on this recording. It's a good performance, but by no means flawless. Just like Freddie was a good pianist, but not a virtuoso one.Yes, and the same reasoning rules out people like Mike Moran and Fred Mandel. Freddie (Bulsara/Mercury) was a very good pianist, but those others were/are a hell of a lot better. |
| Sebastian 12.08.2014 17:51 |
John S Stuart wrote: So even if the best Brian May impersonators could fool most of the people most of the time, they could still be exposed under a detailed analysis.In an ideal world yes, but people performing said detailed analyses can also be biased or mistaken. Check TV-Tropes for a comprehensive list of 'reality is unrealistic' anecdotes (e.g., Tim Curry being thrown out of a cinema because people thought he was a Tim Curry impersonator). We're so used to the Brian May we hear (mostly) on the records that a blind test comparing him with an imitator could yield surprising results. Hugh Jackman dressed himself as wolverine at Comic-Con last year and people failed to recognise him; someone even said he was 'too tall' to be 'the real one.' So, while I absolutely categorically one-hundred-and-ten-percent agree with you and see where you're coming from, keep in mind that those analysis techniques aren't error-proof and people behind said researches (me included, of course) are inherently flawed and biased. The best Brian-May-fingerprint-identifier in the world could still deem a genuine recording as fake, or vice-versa, just as Brian May himself could do it (need I remind everyone of his memory slips again?). I'm not targeting Brian, despite what some may think, I'm just using him as an example. The same could be said about John, Roger, Freddie (if he were still alive), etc. John Deacon once heard the Flash Gordon OST and failed to realise it was his own band. |
| rhyeking 13.08.2014 11:00 |
My two cents... This is one of those times where the standard of proof needs to be very high, because I think we can agree that no one here wants the known Freddie Mercury catalogue of recordings cluttered with fakes. The burden of proof is on John S. Stuart, not on the skeptics. Challenging the claim that this is a recording of Freddie Mercury is vital to maintaining accurate knowledge. I learned long ago not to take anything for granted. I require hard evidence, or at least a variety of independently verifiable objective sources. In this case, the following things would help support the claim that this is Freddie playing these tracks: - documentation from Jim Hutton (a letter detailing Jim's claim that it's Freddie, a receipt of sale from Jim to at least verify the source, etc.) - Other expert witnesses from Freddie's personal life (Peter Freestone, Mike Moran or someone who can authoritatively comment on Freddie's knowledge of/interest in these songs) - Brian May, Roger Taylor and/or John Deacon's thoughts on the performance and the tracks themselves (after all, they recorded and performed together for 20 years and can offer insights far greater than fan analyses) Right now, with only John's claim as to its source and authenticity, I am skeptical. That doesn't mean I am opposed to the idea (I'm not, I want more FM recordings as much as any fan) or that I think it's a fake. All I can say is that it has not been proven to my satisfaction. |
| John S Stuart 13.08.2014 13:07 |
Ryeking "The burden of proof is on John S. Stuart, not on the skeptics. Challenging the claim that this is a recording of Freddie Mercury is vital to maintaining accurate knowledge". Sorry but that is a very poor stance to take because the burden of proof is NOT mine to make - because I do not have it, and can not provide it - but that does NOT prove it is NOT Freddie! I bought the tape from Jim Hutton in good faith; and that is all the proof I have. Of course it would be nice to have more, but I for one actually believe Jim. If others do not - that is not my problem. If this had been an unknown Picasso painting which I bought from a from reputable a dealer in the same good faith; it would be up to the "experts" to prove it false - not up to me to prove it genuine. This tape is what it is - if anyone else can prove this is a fake; I would be interested in listening to their reasoning. |
| rhyeking 13.08.2014 15:29 |
*** Ryeking "The burden of proof is on John S. Stuart, not on the skeptics. Challenging the claim that this is a recording of Freddie Mercury is vital to maintaining accurate knowledge". Sorry but that is a very poor stance to take because the burden of proof is NOT mine to make - because I do not have it, and can not provide it - but that does NOT prove it is NOT Freddie! *** We're presented with a recording claimed to be Freddie playing some songs on piano and are told by you it came from Jim Hutton. It is not unreasonable, nor a "poor stance," to ask you to prove either of those two details. You say you can't and shouldn't have to, and ask us to take your claim at face value. I can't do that, either as a fan or a researcher of the group's work. Being able to prove with evidence, to support any important claim made to others about something that is unknown to them is a fundamental requirement of that claim. That is why the burden of proof is always on the person making the claim. He or she must prove that what they say is accurate and factual. This is the reason it is the basis for legal systems, as well as all disciplines of serious research (scientific, historical, etc.). Research into Queen is important to all of us here and no one is above the burden of proof when offering fellow fans something as important as previously unreleased, undocumented material. I hold myself to this standard, as well, especially having co-written a book on them. I would expect you and every other fan to question me and ask for proof if I were to suddenly make something like this Jim Hutton Tape available. If all I could say is "[Person who is no longer alive] sold it to me, but I have no documentation or anything to support what I'm telling you," I wouldn't expect you or anyone else to simply take my word for it. That's all I really have to say on this subject unless/until something more substantive is offered in the way of supporting evidence. |
| John S Stuart 13.08.2014 17:26 |
Ryeking: I accept your position; and you are entitled to your opinion, but that does not prove anything either way. In my opinion it is genuine. In your opinion it is not. Not quite a stalemate - but that's how it stands. As for corrupting the gene pool; if you look back at the beginning of this thread you will see that it was not me who "released" it; nor was it released with my "blessing". I just chipped in later with the background to clarify for the record how this tape came to be, and that this tape was known to be in my existence BEFORE the death of Jim Hutton. The fact that someone else recently released it does not make it new or exciting. Indeed from where I sit, it is very old hat. As I said previously; If I bought a genuine Picasso in good faith; that does not make it so. So on one hand I do not need the proof because I retain the artifact regardless. If others seek OBJECTIVE truth; and not subjective, I still stand by the "only Freddie could play like Freddie claim" after all Picasso experts have often been surprised by people who thought they had reproductions - when in fact they owned the genuine item. I am sure it would be easy to verify if these had those Freddie fingerprints or not. |
| tcc 13.08.2014 21:19 |
rhyeking wrote: My two cents... This is one of those times where the standard of proof needs to be very high, because I think we can agree that no one here wants the known Freddie Mercury catalogue of recordings cluttered with fakes. The burden of proof is on John S. Stuart, not on the skeptics. Challenging the claim that this is a recording of Freddie Mercury is vital to maintaining accurate knowledge. I learned long ago not to take anything for granted. I require hard evidence, or at least a variety of independently verifiable objective sources. In this case, the following things would help support the claim that this is Freddie playing these tracks: - documentation from Jim Hutton (a letter detailing Jim's claim that it's Freddie, a receipt of sale from Jim to at least verify the source, etc.) - Other expert witnesses from Freddie's personal life (Peter Freestone, Mike Moran or someone who can authoritatively comment on Freddie's knowledge of/interest in these songs) - Brian May, Roger Taylor and/or John Deacon's thoughts on the performance and the tracks themselves (after all, they recorded and performed together for 20 years and can offer insights far greater than fan analyses) Right now, with only John's claim as to its source and authenticity, I am skeptical. That doesn't mean I am opposed to the idea (I'm not, I want more FM recordings as much as any fan) or that I think it's a fake. All I can say is that it has not been proven to my satisfaction.Just my two cents: Rhyeking - if JH tries to sell you this recording, what proof do you need from him to be convinced that it was Freddie playing ? |
| Costa86 14.08.2014 04:15 |
To me this does sound like Freddie playing. The thing is, I really can't imagine him playing this sort of thing in its entirety at his home. And, in the case of the Amazing Grace recording, I REALLY can't imagine him playing that at all. It's just not in character for him. |
| Sebastian 14.08.2014 05:55 |
rhyeking wrote: Being able to prove with evidence, to support any important claim made to others about something that is unknown to them is a fundamental requirement of that claim. That is why the burden of proof is always on the person making the claim. He or she must prove that what they say is accurate and factual.Well said. I agree completely. Of all you've written in this forum, which has routinely been in a very high quality standard, this is arguably your best post IMO. rhyeking wrote: ...no one is above the burden of proof when offering fellow fans something as important as previously unreleased, undocumented material.Exactly! rhyeking wrote: If all I could say is "[Person who is no longer alive] sold it to me, but I have no documentation or anything to support what I'm telling you," I wouldn't expect you or anyone else to simply take my word for it.I can see where you're coming from. By the way I do believe it's Freddie playing, but all I can offer is my opinion. Nothing more. John S Stuart wrote: In my opinion it is genuine. In your opinion it is not.To be fair, and this is a key point, Rhyeking is not saying it's not genuine; they're saying it hasn't been proved to be genuine (not the same claim at all). John S Stuart wrote: I am sure it would be easy to verify if these had those Freddie fingerprints or not.As a matter of fact, it's not easy, for reasons mentioned earlier (by me and other posters, from different perspectives). I still believe it's Freddie, but all I can offer is my opinion (some would even consider it an 'expert' opinion, but I don't think it is, not for this particular subject). tcc wrote: Rhyeking - if JH tries to sell you this recording, what proof do you need from him to be convinced that it was Freddie playing ?TBF, that point's quite irrelevant considering he's dead ... but we all know what happened to Barry Mitchell's tape, not to mention the amount of officially-endorsed false claims, incorrect or incomplete liner notes, memory slips by all band members (not just Brian, I'm not just vilifying him), fake autographs sold via 'official' channels, etc. Costa86 wrote: To me this does sound like Freddie playing. The thing is, I really can't imagine him playing this sort of thing in its entirety at his home. And, in the case of the Amazing Grace recording, I REALLY can't imagine him playing that at all. It's just not in character for him.To be fair, none of us knew Freddie, so we can't really judge from his officially released output. People do have different personalities on- and off-work, especially artists. There's nothing to suggest Fred wouldn't like to play those songs, just like there's nothing to suggest he would. The fact he wasn't Christian didn't mean he wouldn't know, or occasionally play, 'Amazing Grace.' |
| cmsdrums 14.08.2014 06:37 |
Like Rhyeking and Sebastian, I back up the point that the issue is not around whether it is believed to be genuinely Freddie (it seems that the overwhelming majority believe it is), but there simply is no proof that that is the case. I'll just add that I have no reason to doubt John's claim that he got it from Jim Hutton, but we have no proof of this, and equally this provenance on its own is not enough to guarantee it's Freddie playing. From a purely objective, historical standpoint, this can't be 'proven' to be Freddie playing based solely on John's (even though honest) statement. If we take the same token of an individual's word, then the poster here called 'Roger's untidy Bottom' claims to have been present in and around the Queen camp for an extensive time around the late 70s and early 80s, and categorically states that 'The Game' was slated to be a double album, and tracks were writtne and recorded to that effect. Do I take take him at his word and categorically state for FACT that there are loads of unreleased 'The Game' tracks in the archives because he says he witnessed this first hand? Finally though, it is great that the possibility of this kind of recording existing and being discussed, and I hope now that others (the archivists, Peter Freestone, the band, Peter Straker etc..) can be perrsuaded to comment and substantiate, lend credence to, or perhaps even refute, the so far one piece of 'evidence' that points to this being Freddie. |
| Sebastian 14.08.2014 07:17 |
That's a good point. A few QZers have (or claim to have) relatively easy access to replies from the likes of Freestone, Moran, Mandel and Mack. If any of them could offer their insights, that still wouldn't be incontestable proof, but it'd certainly add (or subtract) credibility to its authenticity. |
| Costa86 14.08.2014 07:20 |
Someone could 'Ask Phoebe' on his blog. He should be soon starting to answer questions again, according to Facebook. |
| Sebastian 14.08.2014 08:14 |
That's a great idea! |
| tcc 14.08.2014 08:33 |
I think the best thing is to ask yourself - if JSS had not posted anything in the thread, would you believe it was Freddie's recording of this piece of music ? |
| Sebastian 14.08.2014 10:11 |
I would, personally (though I wouldn't be, and am not, and cannot possibly ever be, 100% sure). What is discussed/challenged here, however, is not the authenticity of the recordings, but the existence of enough evidence to confirm said authenticity. |
| tcc 14.08.2014 10:16 |
If a person believes, why does he need proof ? You only need proof if there is a doubt. |
| Sebastian 14.08.2014 10:42 |
It's not about 'needing', it's about 'inquiring if there is any because it'd be far better to have it.' |
| John S Stuart 14.08.2014 12:06 |
I totally agree with everyone. If the shoe was on the other foot, or if I bought this from anyone else but Jim Hutton; I too would be skeptical. So I am not in a position to criticise because I totally understand where the "skeptics" are coming from. I also agree with Seb. This track is available in FLAC in the "Downloads" section - so I am sure that it could be shared with Brian, Pheobe or whoever. It may not change my mind, but remember my mind is not objective and is biased and it would be good to hear what others "in the know" think. Finally; as to the track itself. What key is it in? Was this one of Freddie's favourite keys - or was this key alien to him? What grading is this piece? I believe Freddie was a grade five. Is this harder than a five (eg a six or seven). Is this being played by ear (that is extemporarised) or is it scripted (eg the reading of sheet music?). These are all question I too would like answered; because unless someone can categorically say "This is not Freddie because..." then I am with Jim, but I think everybody knows that anyway :-) |
| Reid_Special_98 14.08.2014 16:58 |
After doing a quick google search - I found this score in PDF format which appears to be very similar to that which is heard on the recording in question... Again, a very common arrangement. link This score is in E-flat major (you can get different keys) while the recording is a half step higher in E major. I wouldn't suspect one key was favoured over the other - in fact, if you compare classics like Melancholy Blues, and the last section of Bohemian Rhapsody, I would argue that Freddie would have preferred the E-flat major key. So - improvisation aside - I see this arrangement as a strong candidate to that which might have been played by the person in the recording - Freddie or otherwise. |
| Reid_Special_98 14.08.2014 17:04 |
I need to strongly say that there is NO way to tell if this is Freddie Mercury or whoever else... as the person is more or less playing NOTE FOR NOTE as to what is found in the score in the link above. There are NO IDENTIFIERS to say it is Freddie Mercury or anybody specific. The person on the recording is playing NOTE FOR NOTE as found in the above link without any other improvisation or otherwise. Check for yourself. Sorry -- but as a pianist - I cannot support the claim that Freddie Mercury is 100% playing on this recording. ANYBODY could be playing this !!!!! Ask anyone who plays piano. |
| Saint Jiub 14.08.2014 18:55 |
Jesus fucking Christ Just enjoy this download gift whether you question its authenticity or not. It all comes down to whether you trust Jim Hutton and John S Stuart. |
| kosimodo 16.08.2014 01:18 |
Why was is sold by Jim? Did he need the money? Did he want to make sure it was shared to the rest of the world? Did he want to make sure it wouldnt be shared with the rest of the world being the personal tape as it is? Is there more? Questions, questions.." |
| Sebastian 17.08.2014 03:10 |
It's obvious, beyond any reasonable doubt, that Bach's Prelude in C Major is taught, learnt, transcribed and played in C Major, 99.99% of the times. If the recording's in another key, then it's almost entirely sure to have been sped up or down, which would suggest 'Send in the Clowns', 'Amazing Grace' and the other one were as well. That could help us discover the key in which Fred (or whoever that was) played 'Clowns'. |
| Reid_Special_98 17.08.2014 05:21 |
Classical music is one thing - but any common piece of "popular" music can be purchased in virtually any key. And this is made even easier with websites like link. Who's to say if the tape was sped up or not - if this is a basic "in house" recording, I would suspect not, but that's just my opinion (sort of a general theme of this thread). It's more likely that the performer used a copy of the music in E major for send in the clowns. |
| ZBGM0 18.08.2014 18:34 |
If the recording was really originally made in E major, then we might have a “problem”. I am pretty sure Freddie would choose Eb major/C minor in 95 % over E major IF we are talking about piano playing. From analyzing his songs that are piano based I can easy believe that Eb major was his favourite key. Actually at the moment I can’t remember even one of HIS songs that are PIANO based (played by HIM) and written in E major. I am NOT saying they don’t exist (there must be some of them) but I just can’t think any of the song at the MOMENT. Most of the time he preferred flats. I am not saying this recording is not from Freddie. But it would be awesome if someone can prove that recording is playing too fast and consequently the pitch is raised by approximately one semitone. Again, this would not be a proof but it would add more credibility. Just a thought |
| John S Stuart 26.08.2014 09:57 |
ZBGM0: If this tape needs to be pitch corrected - can anyone in here do that? - Please? |
| ZBGM0 02.09.2014 11:55 |
I am pretty sure Gregsynth can do it, actually anyone can do it. You just need a program to lower the pitch. You can download Audacity for instance (free) and make this in a few seconds. But with cheap or free programs the quality would not be the best. You need somebody who has a good program. But problem is that I don't know if the tape is played to fast. Freddie didn't like E major on the piano and IF the original song (from composer) is really in Eb major THEN I am even more convinced (something like 99,99999 %) that Freddie would NEVER play it in E major. It is safe to say that IF this is Freddie then the tape IS played to fast. |
| SkyeTV 02.09.2014 18:23 |
If this hadn't been leaked here, but had instead turned up on the FM boxset a few years back, would anyone be inclined to question the authenticity? Not one of you, I bet. |
| Sebastian 07.12.2014 02:32 |
Sebastian wrote: If the recording's in another key, then it's almost entirely sure to have been sped up or down, which would suggest 'Send in the Clowns', 'Amazing Grace' and the other one were as well.I'll reply to my own post with a correction: it can be simpler than that. Many pianos are tuned a semitone lower than usual. So there. |
| cmsdrums 07.12.2014 05:18 |
SkyeTV wrote: If this hadn't been leaked here, but had instead turned up on the FM boxset a few years back, would anyone be inclined to question the authenticity? Not one of you, I bet.But that's the whole point of the debate here - that WOULD have been the proof of authenticity. Without PROOF, we can all be absolutely firm in our belief that it is genuine based on the provenance of where it reputedly came from, but we can't PROVE it. |
| Sebastian 07.12.2014 05:43 |
That's quite interesting, though. Presumably, having those tracks on an official release would be enough 'proof' of authenticity for the overwhelming majority of people. What would, however, stop QPL from releasing a fake? My point is not to start second-guessing and doubting everything, but to consider the big picture: * For something to go on the box-set, it would've needed to be found by the archivist and then remixed, (re)mastered and issued. If none of the people were actually present when Fred recorded it (or not), then their witness testimonies are not more valid than ours. They're just trusting their ears, their guts or what's written on a tape... or maybe not even that. * These tapes we're debating, reportedly, came from Freddie's boyfriend. Is Jim Hutton more reliable than Greg Brooks? One knew him personally, one never met him; one hasn't got the official seal, the other one has; one's dead and can't come here to defend his stance, the other one can and probably will come here to defend himself by bullying and name-calling. |
| Thistle 07.12.2014 14:33 |
I have no doubt whatsoever that QPL have released some duffers. The "a-capella" of "Let's Turn It On" from the FM set is, IMO, bogus. They have tried to cover their arse in the notes about "headphone bleed", but it sounds like it's some channel-fiddling. Also with "I Was Born To Love You", it's evidently just a stripped down version of the original and not a "session take" as the titling of the disc would have you believe. Any competent mixer could do that and put it on a disc alongside genuine demos/out-takes to beef up the content. |
| miraclesteinway 08.12.2014 03:37 |
I don't know if it's real or not, but it could be. Freddie's piano in his house was terribly out of tune, for instance, as you can hear on the garden lodge tapes (why, oh why, did he not hire a tuner?) |
| Sebastian 04.01.2016 17:45 |
Good times. |
| FreddieDearie 03.08.2020 07:46 |
BrEnSki wrote: “this whole conversation can rack up some strong arguments here. see previous threads :-) Anyhow, my opinion on it - Freddie left her the house to do with as she chose - this was HOW MUCH he thought of Mary - perhaps if he truly loved Jim he'd have left it to him? It was Mary's and so were the contents that he bequeathed to her. Tell me honestly that if someone left you a house in their will, that YOU'D be happy to have the deceased's old friends still living there...and if so, how long would YOU be ok with that situation...think about it. All the friends, and friends of friends and the hangers on and liggers - people you've never met ....after all it was her house and up to her who she let live there - or not”. :::: Agreed 1000% Quite frankly I can’t get over that people ACTUALLY buy into the notion that Freddie made a verbal promise that the three men could stay on for as long as they determined they needed. Just the fact that they all take Hutton’s word that Freddie wanted them to all stay at Garden Lodge until the felt like leaving. . I mean, SERIOUSLY. LOGICALLY. They REALLY think Freddie wanted or expected a 7 month pregnant woman of a certain age, with a toddler and a baby daddy... To take on 3 adult males as servants (two of them ex-lovers) she ultimately had little use for, and continue to financially support them for an unspecified amount of time? That makes sense to them? . She was supposed to upkeep a multi-million dollar mansion and all it's valuable.contents and all the expense that entails until they just got the notion to leave?? No way in HOLY HECK Freddie would do something so thoughtless and unreasonable to Mary or ANYONE. She gave them 3 months to leave which is plenty enough time for 3 adult men with homes already bought for them and £500,000 on the way to leave. I mean it’s just CRAZY they buy into that fable. I believe Hutton lied about that and if he’d lie about something like that, how much else did he lie about. |
| Anton3283 04.08.2020 11:11 |
thomasquinn 32989 wrote:who is this JSS?Reid_Special_98 wrote: I'm not convinced that this is Freddie.If JSS says it is, and he owns the recording, then you can take that to the bank. |
| Saint Jiub 05.08.2020 00:24 |
Anton3283 wrote:John Stuart - legendary QZer, sharer and great guy.thomasquinn 32989 wrote:who is this JSS?Reid_Special_98 wrote: I'm not convinced that this is Freddie.If JSS says it is, and he owns the recording, then you can take that to the bank. |