| Queen Archivist 02.09.2007 16:11 |
I think this is worth addressing properly... I see here and there, on various threads on QZ, statements such as "No wonder no Queen fans/collectors ever send, or are ever likely to send, QPL or Greg anything rare..." or "GB (or QPL) wonder why he/they NEVER get us fans to hand over our stuff" and the like. You will see those kinds of things appearing regularly, but it's very peculiar when you know the full picture - or at least the other side of it that is such a big part of my work life. It might be the case here, to a large extent, I don't deny that, but don't forget QZ is not the entire picture, it is merely a few pixels in a vast image, so to speak. The truth is very different and a lot of you need to realise the world of Queen fans and collectors is vast. You guys know of fans/experts such as Andreas Voigts, Frank Hazenberg, Frank Palstra, Paul Bird and Rinus W and and all the other European collectors, right? Those guys (and/or the people they deal with, especially in the U.S.) have collections and some rare recordings that are very far from insignificant. And obviously they know a lot of people between them. These people have a mass of collective knowledge, but just because they're not QZ-ers, doesn't exclude them from the bigger picture that gets overlooked by so many of you. While I accept that I rub a fair few people on QZ up the wrong way and really give them the raving hump - like several of them do me too - in fact QZ represents a small percentage of the amount of fans that write to me directly, or via QOL, or via Jacky Smith's site, or the BM Jen Tunney site, etc. I get emails from all over the world and from all kinds of sources. And from that I also receive lots of unusual items - some of interest, some not, as you would expect. I am the obvious person to send those things to - not just from Queen fans, but from Jo public, and so many other unlikely quarters. Some of the people, or companies, or archives, that contact me know nothing, or little, about Queen, and might be just enquiring if such and such an item might be valueable or of interest or not, and others have some very significant things - as you certainly will see and hear sometime. I hope. It is illogical to assume that what you see here on QZ is typical or representative of the ENTIRE picture. It really is not. It baffles me when you think that way. It's like being a native of a certain large country we all know of, some of whom do not recognise there is a great big world beyond that countries borders. They see only what is under their nose and assume everyone else thinks the same way. You know what I mean. Some QZ-ers are clearly blinkered to so much else that goes on outside of QZ borders. I see this all the time here, and again today. I receive CD's, DVDs, MP3s, VHS videos, etc, all the time. So it cannot be the case that NO ONE ever sends us stuff. They do. I have it all here in my office in various forms. Sure, lots of you hate me, I can live with that, as I've said a hundred times. This is just an internet site. It is not a crucial critical element of ANY of our lives... I hope anyway... and certainly not mine. QZ is not the only source of rarities, is my point. Believe it or not people outside of these four virtual walls are big fans collectors too. Lots of people that approach Brian, or his office, or his PA Claire, or Jim Beach's office, for example, are passed on to me to deal with, and very often they have footage to give us, or to negociate for, or to have identified, or they have photographs or memorabilia or some recording or other they want us to consider. This is not to say that it's all great stuff, of course, because it certainly isn't. But sometimes we find nice things - such as the rehearsal footage from 86 - which we put out as DVD bonus. I get sent details of things like 8mm film of Queen live in USA Sept 1980, possibility of audio recrdings of Oakland USA Dec 77 and July |
| Queen Archivist 02.09.2007 16:13 |
HERE IS A TYPICAL (wrong) EXAMPLE, BY THE WAY... And genuine fans wonder why collectors do NOT wish to share their treasures with QPL |
| Penetration_Guru 02.09.2007 19:25 |
You make a good point, but some of us have access to the same non-QZ experts as you, so it's not as if this site is totally unrepresentative. Being a little mischievous - which of those experts advised QP to breach the BBC's copyright AND release the "inferior" Montreal mix via the "Top 100 Bootlegs" project? |
| gnomo 03.09.2007 03:02 |
... for instance, the response on the QOL official message boards has been truly overwhelming... |
| Zak Royen 03.09.2007 05:24 |
Queen Archivist wrote: It's true, here on QZ, people who get the arse-ache with me say that they are not going to hand over anything rare. They 'say' that they have this and that, but because of personal differences with GB they will never ..... bla bla bla, you get the gist. That's all fine and dandy.No it isn't. Your footage of Freddie on a tractor will not make up for your inability to obtain the Golders Green master copy. And it's plain for all to see why you won't be obtaining it. Were you a little more tactful, polite, and respectful, you'd be doing a much better job. Your conscious decision to maintain a bad relationship with one of the biggest Queen collectors will only amount to unvaluable loss for the Queen fans. But you don't give a damn do you? |
| John S Stuart 03.09.2007 08:03 |
Greg is indeed correct. Queenzone is only a part of the larger Queen-world. In the past, I too have dealt with many of the names he has included on his list, and in terms of Queen collectors - some of those names he mentions - are really big hitters. However, Zak’s point is also valid in that: regardless of what gems those lads have in their personal collections - they do NOT have it all. Therefore, to cut off one 'supplier' in favour of other 'suppliers' is to my mind commercial madness - especially when the omitted supplier owns many unique and exclusive rarities, which cannot be obtained elsewhere. I have stated clearly and reasonably in MANY of these threads - that I am OPEN to negotiation, and I have generously OFFERED the 'Golder's Green' MASTER TAPE up to Queen Productions - if THEY so desire it. I am NOT keeping anything from them - nor am I detracting from the valuable contributions of other Queen collectors outside the Queenzone collective. (Sorry about that last sentence sounding a bit Start-Trekky!) HOWEVER, (and I hope this is viewed in context) because of MY experience, I am loath to hand over anything without some sort of caveats in place to protect ALL parties. Now is this just me being unreasonable - or do you think I am being both open and fair, and if, (as I see it – I am being open and fair) why does it seem that QPL have me on some sort of ‘blacklist’ when the only crime I have ever committed is to place my complete trust in THEIR hands? So why does that make ME the villain of the piece? What more would you have me do? |
| pow wow 03.09.2007 08:28 |
Hi John, When you say you have generously offered QPL the rarities you have, Golders Green for example, would you receive any financial reward for this? If the answer is no and your offering them to QPL just to get rarities out there for everyone in the form of an official release, then why do you not just upload them here? If the answer is yes, then your doing it for financial gain, hence any fan that acquires it officially would be incidental. You've invested a lot of time and money over the years and I see nothing wrong with trying to squeeze a quid or two from QPL but I'm just trying to understand your motives. I'd say let them come to you. Obviously any box set is a long way off. QPL don't need what you have AT THE MOMENT but may do in the future. Paul Bird - good guy! |
| Josh Henson 03.09.2007 10:45 |
Greg, how come you never reply back to JSS when he makes these statements? You owe us this. I think we would all like to know just WHY the HELL won't the 2 (or more) parties get together and get this concert, and others, put out there properly. With all the bickering up here it is a wonder if anything rare will EVER get released in our lifetimes. Bottom Line: Quit the f'ing bickering, come to terms with one another and get this stuff out there for everyone to experience. This goes for all the rare holders out there. NO ONE IS WINNING HERE. |
| John S Stuart 03.09.2007 11:16 |
pow wow wrote: Hi John, When you say you have generously offered QPL the rarities you have, Golders Green for example, would you receive any financial reward for this? If the answer is no and your offering them to QPL just to get rarities out there for everyone in the form of an official release, then why do you not just upload them here? If the answer is yes, then your doing it for financial gain, hence any fan that acquires it officially would be incidental. You've invested a lot of time and money over the years and I see nothing wrong with trying to squeeze a quid or two from QPL but I'm just trying to understand your motives. I'd say let them come to you. Obviously any box set is a long way off. QPL don't need what you have AT THE MOMENT but may do in the future. Paul Bird - good guy!First: I am not allowed to upoad them here. That would be breach of copyright and bootlegging, and as such against the law. There is a copy of the 'Golders Green' concert in the 'announce section', but I did not upload it. I also think this is OK as it would be impossible to prove where this version came from - so if QPL were to prosecute - who would they charge? The uploader? The bootlegger? The bootleg seller? In otherwords, there are no traceable 'fingerprints'. On the other hand, as my copy is a master version, it would be very easily traceable and would have my 'fingerprints' all over it - and with the relationship that exists between Greg and I at the moment, I would not be willing to take that chance. So I would not upload it. Second: Theoretically, I would have no problem donating the master to QPL for free - but (and again I am loath to say this as I know this is inviting the whole episode to explode in my face - again), past experience suggests this is not a good idea. So I would not donate it to QPL for free either. Third: Given that QPL are a multi-million pound (dollar) corporation, and that they stand to make thousands of pounds in sales (and spin-off sales). Given what the tape cost me roughly twenty years ago, and also given the rate of inflation over such a long period of time, I would sell my master to QPL for a one-off payment c£5,000 - and for that they could keep the damned thing and their royalties - provided I also received a few free (or even signed) copies. Now considering that (according to the banks) this is the equivalent of a couple of months National wage (I know - who earns the national wage) I do not think that would be too greedy. I hope that this has frankly and honesty answered this question - without it coming back to haunt me as some sort of traitor, money-grabber, or further excuse to railroad the universe. PS: I agree - Paul Bird - good guy! |
| john bodega 03.09.2007 11:17 |
You're all forgetting something very important. link Come on guys. Join in. |
| Queen Archivist 03.09.2007 12:04 |
Zac Royen... Your conscious decision to maintain a bad relationship with one of the biggest Queen collectors will only amount to unvaluable loss for the Queen fans. But you don't give a damn do you? GB: Zac, do you get along with EVERYONE you know, speak with, have to deal with for work reasons???????? No, neither do I. It isn't possible to get on with EVERYONE. I have fallen out with 2 people in 10 years working on Queen stuff. Plus a few QZ-ers hate me... which is partly my own fault for winding them up like they try to do me. As I've said previously, those people dish it out all the time but HATE it coming back at them. I give as good as I get. I deal with upwards of 700, maybe 800 fans and collector's in my Queen Contacts email folder. That's not a bad record is it? In my opinion anyway. Human nature dictates we cannot ALL like each other. In fact I do NOT dislike John. I just cannot work with him, or even correspond. He drives me TOTALLY insane, as I do him. We get up each other's noses. No more or less. In my email QUEEN CONTACTS 'dealt with' folder right now, are 16,776 emails, since 2004. Plus over 200 in the Inbox. You can see the scale of this matter. It's natural to break a few eggs along the way to make an omelette, as they say. |
| Queen Archivist 03.09.2007 12:09 |
John. I never said you are/were the villian of the piece. That's you putting words in my mouth again. I wish you wouldn't do that. Look, why don't you write directly to Brian or Anne Meyer at Jim Beach with your generous offer of the Golders Green tape. I'm not the ONLY Queen person at QPL to deal with fans/collectors. QPL functioned very well for many years before I came along. It's probably the best way around this. |
| brENsKi 03.09.2007 13:32 |
Queen Archivist wrote: Human nature dictates we cannot ALL like each other. In fact I do NOT dislike John. I just cannot work with him, or even correspond. He drives me TOTALLY insane, as I do him. We get up each other's noses. No more or less.Greg, you could start a fight at a Hare Krishna gathering. Queen Archivist wrote: It's natural to break a few eggs along the way to make an omelette, as they say...but you're not making omelettes...you're just beating and scrambling all the good out of the eggs |
| John S Stuart 03.09.2007 13:43 |
Queen Archivist wrote: John. I never said you are/were the villian of the piece. That's you putting words in my mouth again. I wish you wouldn't do that. Look, why don't you write directly to Brian or Anne Meyer at Jim Beach with your generous offer of the Golders Green tape. I'm not the ONLY Queen person at QPL to deal with fans/collectors. QPL functioned very well for many years before I came along.First: I did NOT say they were YOUR words - so I could not put them into your mouth. I wish you wouldn't do that either. Second: My e-mail address is in here. Why not send me a mail with an address to contact Brian or Anne or Jim Beach directly - or if you do not wish to contact me - why not have someone from that office contact me instead? |
| on my way up 03.09.2007 14:57 |
Queen Archivist wrote: Zac Royen... Your conscious decision to maintain a bad relationship with one of the biggest Queen collectors will only amount to unvaluable loss for the Queen fans. But you don't give a damn do you? GB: Zac, do you get along with EVERYONE you know, speak with, have to deal with for work reasons???????? No, neither do I. It isn't possible to get on with EVERYONE. I have fallen out with 2 people in 10 years working on Queen stuff. Plus a few QZ-ers hate me... which is partly my own fault for winding them up like they try to do me. As I've said previously, those people dish it out all the time but HATE it coming back at them. I give as good as I get. I deal with upwards of 700, maybe 800 fans and collector's in my Queen Contacts email folder. That's not a bad record is it? In my opinion anyway. Human nature dictates we cannot ALL like each other. In fact I do NOT dislike John. I just cannot work with him, or even correspond. He drives me TOTALLY insane, as I do him. We get up each other's noses. No more or less. In my email QUEEN CONTACTS 'dealt with' folder right now, are 16,776 emails, since 2004. Plus over 200 in the Inbox. You can see the scale of this matter. It's natural to break a few eggs along the way to make an omelette, as they say.I do not get along with everyone in my personal life. My work is something else. It would be sad if a bad contact with a collector would keep QP from obtaining a wonderful item. Don't you think? I really hope that QP delivers one day. And that all these wonderful things that Qp get from collectors and those that exist in the archive get released one day. It's wonderful to buy a fantastic product of your favourite band. |
| Zak Royen 03.09.2007 18:13 |
Queen Archivist wrote: GB: Zac, do you get along with EVERYONE you know, speak with, have to deal with for work reasons???????? No, neither do I. It isn't possible to get on with EVERYONE. I have fallen out with 2 people in 10 years working on Queen stuff. Plus a few QZ-ers hate me... which is partly my own fault for winding them up like they try to do me. As I've said previously, those people dish it out all the time but HATE it coming back at them. I give as good as I get. I deal with upwards of 700, maybe 800 fans and collector's in my Queen Contacts email folder. That's not a bad record is it? In my opinion anyway. Human nature dictates we cannot ALL like each other. In fact I do NOT dislike John. I just cannot work with him, or even correspond. He drives me TOTALLY insane, as I do him. We get up each other's noses. No more or less. In my email QUEEN CONTACTS 'dealt with' folder right now, are 16,776 emails, since 2004. Plus over 200 in the Inbox. You can see the scale of this matter. It's natural to break a few eggs along the way to make an omelette, as they say.I was not assessing your professional skills overall -- who am I to judge? As far as i can tell, you did a terrific job on the FM Solo Collection, and for that I'm still thankful. And though I understand that you can not get along with some people (indeed, who can?), I can not understand what in John Stuart's recent posts os driving you "insane". Okay, so he's brought up an old issue. Big deal! I am tempted to believe you when you say that you have apologized profusely for the lost tape (which John hasn't denied), but I'm also tempted to believe John when he claims that he's never been properly compensated (which you have not denied). did he not even receive a free copy of the boxset? Well, if he didn't (which, as I've said before, sounds crazy to me), I believe he's got every right to complain so long as you or Queen Productions don't offer some kind of compensation. Better late than never, don't you think? Anyway... as your dealings with John are all public today, we can all witness your conversations. And i REALLY do not see what is so intolerable in John's posts that you should not even be able to communicate with him. He's polite, respectful, and obviously trying to offer you something you do not have, and which is of obvious interest to the fans. I mean, it's easy to understand why you do not like John very much (though i do not share your feelings), but it's VERY HARD to figure out why the current exchange is driving you "TOTALLY insane". Can't you just cool down a bit? Can't you just leave personal affinities aside for just one minute (nobody's asking you to become good friends with John!), consider his offer, and see what you can do? |
| Zak Royen 03.09.2007 18:17 |
Also, I understand you may have had frustrating phone calls with John in the past. But as you're the one asking John to "move on", I think you should follow your own advice. |
| on my way up 06.09.2007 11:18 |
John S Stuart wrote: Greg is indeed correct. Queenzone is only a part of the larger Queen-world. In the past, I too have dealt with many of the names he has included on his list, and in terms of Queen collectors - some of those names he mentions - are really big hitters. However, Zak’s point is also valid in that: regardless of what gems those lads have in their personal collections - they do NOT have it all. Therefore, to cut off one 'supplier' in favour of other 'suppliers' is to my mind commercial madness - especially when the omitted supplier owns many unique and exclusive rarities, which cannot be obtained elsewhere. I have stated clearly and reasonably in MANY of these threads - that I am OPEN to negotiation, and I have generously OFFERED the 'Golder's Green' MASTER TAPE up to Queen Productions - if THEY so desire it. I am NOT keeping anything from them - nor am I detracting from the valuable contributions of other Queen collectors outside the Queenzone collective. (Sorry about that last sentence sounding a bit Start-Trekky!) HOWEVER, (and I hope this is viewed in context) because of MY experience, I am loath to hand over anything without some sort of caveats in place to protect ALL parties. Now is this just me being unreasonable - or do you think I am being both open and fair, and if, (as I see it – I am being open and fair) why does it seem that QPL have me on some sort of ‘blacklist’ when the only crime I have ever committed is to place my complete trust in THEIR hands? So why does that make ME the villain of the piece? What more would you have me do?Can you give examples of rare things these people have? So that we get an idea of it:-) |
| Adolfo and the spiders from Mercury 09.09.2007 23:37 |
fuck, thats way too much text for someone just bitching about QZ, Im not reading it |
| Joeker 10.09.2007 00:29 |
Queenzone may only be a few pixels... but uh Greg... Those are some damn big pixels I must say. |
| kdj2hot 10.09.2007 01:42 |
Queen Archivist wrote: I deal with upwards of 700, maybe 800 fans and collector's in my Queen Contacts email folder. That's not a bad record is it? In my opinion anyway. Human nature dictates we cannot ALL like each other. In fact I do NOT dislike John. I just cannot work with him, or even correspond. He drives me TOTALLY insane, as I do him. We get up each other's noses. No more or less. In my email QUEEN CONTACTS 'dealt with' folder right now, are 16,776 emails, since 2004. Plus over 200 in the Inbox. You can see the scale of this matter. It's natural to break a few eggs along the way to make an omelette, as they say.I have a problem, as a consumer, with that train of thought, Because you're not Queen (not that I'm saying you've gone insane an think you're Queen or bigger than Queen). As you stated before you're only employed by Queen so I dont understand how you can let personal differences get in the way of somthing professionally. Now I dont know, maybe in this instance QPL don't think Golders Green is valuable enough to them so I'm not talking in terms of that I'm referring to the hypothetical. What if he has something that was really valuable or useful that couldnt be reproduced anywhere else. If you really feel that you wont deal with him in anyway that would hurt your employers, not to mention consumers. Honestly I doubt that would be the case if you felt JSS had something grondbreaking (I'm not saying he doesn't, I don't know) I think you have that mindset because you pretty much know what JSS has and feel that you can eiher do with it or without it. It's nothing you feel you just MUST have. I don't know, just my thoughts about something I have very lil' knowledge on. |
| Raf 10.09.2007 04:42 |
link A few pixels *DO* make the difference! |
